The 50 year old vegan who looks half his age

[Jennifer]

Wow that’s great to hear, thank you for the info! I never heard of butter oil but I’ll look into it further. I’ve never really supplemented d3 but I think a lot of issues I’ve had are due to a long term vitamin d deficiency which I’ve tested low for.

I read recently that ray stopped recommending k2 supplements due to them being allergenic. He recommended aged cheese, yolks, milk, and well cooked greens.

You’re welcome. :) Do you get much sun or are you unable to raise your level via sun alone? While vegan, I sunbathed for at least an hour every day it was sunny here, but I still ended up deficient in vitamin D. Gouda is supposedly one of the cheese varieties highest in K2. I consume a fair amount of it.

 

[aniciete]

You’re welcome. :) Do you get much sun or are you unable to raise your level via sun alone? While vegan, I sunbathed for at least an hour every day it was sunny here, but I still ended up deficient in vitamin D. Gouda is supposedly one of the cheese varieties highest in K2. I consume a fair amount of it.

I used a UV lamp for 5 mins a day last winter/spring and got a good amount of summer sun. I never burn but my levels were 25 and 26 at the end of summer. I have olive skin naturally and when I calculate my vitamin d needs from the dminder app, I need to get unreal amounts of high UV sunlight to raise my level to at least 40.

I moved to a high latitude (33 to 43 degrees) last year and developed problems after a couple months. I always thought I got enough sun but sitting hours in the sun everyday wearing minimal clothing seems insane.

I recently read that Ray thinks vitamin d and thyroid are parallel and a deficiency will show the same symptoms as hypothyroidism. In my case that definitely seems to be true considering that digestive issues and cold extremities are some of the symptoms I’ve developed.

 

[Limon9]

Paul Roe claims to avoid sunlight but it's really the wind, which would carry him off into the horizon, featherlike.

 

[Jennifer]

I used a UV lamp for 5 mins a day last winter/spring and got a good amount of summer sun. I never burn but my levels were 25 and 26 at the end of summer. I have olive skin naturally and when I calculate my vitamin d needs from the dminder app, I need to get unreal amounts of high UV sunlight to raise my level to at least 40.

I moved to a high latitude (33 to 43 degrees) last year and developed problems after a couple months. I always thought I got enough sun but sitting hours in the sun everyday wearing minimal clothing seems insane.

I recently read that Ray thinks vitamin d and thyroid are parallel and a deficiency will show the same symptoms as hypothyroidism. In my case that definitely seems to be true considering that digestive issues and cold extremities are some of the symptoms I’ve developed.

Ah, okay, so similar to me. I have very fair skin and even with climbing mountains year round and supplementing D3, my level was down to 6. When I started taking thyroid (NDT), my level shot right up to 100 and I had even stopped sunbathing. Thyroid improved my liver function—I was able to have fat without triggering gallbladder attacks—so I thought maybe that was a factor. Is your liver function okay? Since you mentioned digestive issues, do have any trouble digesting fat?

 

[aniciete]

Ah, okay, so similar to me. I have very fair skin and even with climbing mountains year round and supplementing D3, my level was down to 6. When I started taking thyroid (NDT), my level shot right up to 100 and I had even stopped sunbathing. Thyroid improved my liver function—I was able to have fat without triggering gallbladder attacks—so I thought maybe that was a factor. Is your liver function okay? Since you mentioned digestive issues, do have any trouble digesting fat?

Interesting. That’s not the first time I’ve heard someone saying thyroid fixed their vitamin d levels too. Some other things like histamine issues and severe cold intolerance have plagued me in the last year too. Ive made 100s of micro adjustments to my diet and all of them have failed to keep me warm or fully eliminate issues.

I went “low A” over the summer and my gallbladder and liver got much worse. Lots of fat malabsorption and pale stools. I think he reason I have high blood retinol is due to low vitamin d/low thyroid causing impaired liver function. Every supplement and diet change hasn’t fixed very much.

I suspect I’ve had these issues for a while now but they’ve gotten a lot worse since moving to a much more stressful climate. I think I might try Haiduts NDT product but it hasn’t been in stock for awhile.

 

[Blossom]

I suspect I’ve had these issues for a while now but they’ve gotten a lot worse since moving to a much more stressful climate. I think I might try Haiduts NDT product but it hasn’t been in stock for awhile.

Life Giving Store has a good NDT option as well.

Grass Fed Beef Thyroid - Natural Desiccated Thyroid - NDT

Grass Fed Beef Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT) Glandular From New Zealand

lifegivingstore.com

 

[Jennifer]

Interesting. That’s not the first time I’ve heard someone saying thyroid fixed their vitamin d levels too. Some other things like histamine issues and severe cold intolerance have plagued me in the last year too. Ive made 100s of micro adjustments to my diet and all of them have failed to keep me warm or fully eliminate issues.

I went “low A” over the summer and my gallbladder and liver got much worse. Lots of fat malabsorption and pale stools. I think he reason I have high blood retinol is due to low vitamin d/low thyroid causing impaired liver function. Every supplement and diet change hasn’t fixed very much.

I suspect I’ve had these issues for a while now but they’ve gotten a lot worse since moving to a much more stressful climate. I think I might try Haiduts NDT product but it hasn’t been in stock for awhile.

Interesting. I had histamine issues, too. It got so bad that the one food I was down to tolerating (fruit) I eventually developed an intolerance to—oral allergy syndrome. Have you ever tested positive for SIBO? It’s typically caused by hypothyroidism. I’m just curious because it can exacerbate histamine intolerance.

About Georgi’s NDT, I had to order TyroMix because TyroMax was out of stock. I’m a little nervous to try it because I’m used to NDT, but I’ve been wanting to switch to synthetic for a while now given what Ray has said about the two. Ray discusses it in the interview below. It should take you to the exact timestamp:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew9n6hdGirs&t=531s

If I’m not mistaken, @Vileplume found that he tolerated Cynoplus better than NDT. I had debated getting the Life Giving Store’s glandular Blossom posted above, but my concern was that it’s not a standardized product or defatted. Ray talked about the issues with freeze-dried organs in this interview:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74oLBrVddFs&t=6853s

 

[Vileplume]

Hey @aniciete and @Jennifer. That's right, I tolerated synthetic forms of thyroid, in general, better than NDT. When I first experimented with thyroid in February 2021, to calm hot flashes and tachycardia, NDT gave me intense anxiety and a heart rate that reached 110 bpm, while lowering my body temp.

However, small doses of cynomel (t3-only) resolved my heart rate issue immediately, when I took a few mcg every 2-3 hours as Dr. Peat has described. When this stopped working after 2 weeks, I gave up on it. (What I should have done is titrate up my dose of cynomel.) Then I tried cynoplus a few months later. This did not give me anxiety like NDT, and kept my heart rate calm. But after 1+ years raising my dose of cynoplus, it still didn't raise my waking temp above 97.8F.

These past few weeks I've been lowering my cynoplus and adding cynomel, to achieve a roughly 1.5:1 T4:T3 ratio. This has raised my afternoon temperature above 98.6 some days, which is the best success I've ever had using thyroid. I think cynomel and cynoplus are great, but I might do just as well with other synthetics - like Tyronene and Tyromix.

 

[Peater]

He doesn't look young he looks stunted, under-developed and weird.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Interesting. I had histamine issues, too. It got so bad that the one food I was down to tolerating (fruit) I eventually developed an intolerance to—oral allergy syndrome. Have you ever tested positive for SIBO? It’s typically caused by hypothyroidism. I’m just curious because it can exacerbate histamine intolerance.

About Georgi’s NDT, I had to order TyroMix because TyroMax was out of stock. I’m a little nervous to try it because I’m used to NDT, but I’ve been wanting to switch to synthetic for a while now given what Ray has said about the two. Ray discusses it in the interview below. It should take you to the exact timestamp:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew9n6hdGirs&t=531s

If I’m not mistaken, @Vileplume found that he tolerated Cynoplus better than NDT. I had debated getting the Life Giving Store’s glandular Blossom posted above, but my concern was that it’s not a standardized product or defatted. Ray talked about the issues with freeze-dried organs in this interview:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74oLBrVddFs&t=6853s

RP wrote me the same about avoiding desiccated liver and kidney tablets, as well as the bone marrow powder. With that being said, with everyone taking “thyroid” what is the source from if it isn’t dried from the gland?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

He doesn't look young he looks stunted, under-developed and weird.

+1+1+1

 

[SonOfEurope]

IMO, looks like a combination of neoteny with malnutrition and lack of physical training needed for a man. Looks like he's had low T, P4, even E2 for a while (in the right amount estrogen is highly masculinizing as it sensitizes the androgen receptor.)

And malnourished.

What is his deadlift or dumbbell bench press???

Looking like a half assed teen doesn't imply youth.. if anything, men reach their biological prime around 36 or 38, when they are most androgenic in appearance, that's the appearance that should be sought to maintain until 60 or so.

What a thread.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

IMO, looks like a combination of neoteny with malnutrition and lack of physical training needed for a man. Looks like he's had low T, P4, even E2 for a while (in the right amount estrogen is highly masculinizing as it sensitizes the androgen receptor.)

And malnourished.

What is his deadlift or dumbbell bench press???

Looking like a half assed teen doesn't imply youth.. if anything, men reach their biological prime around 36 or 38, when they are most androgenic in appearance, that's the appearance that should be sought to maintain until 60 or so.

What a thread.

I love your ending, what a thread is right!

 

[Jennifer]

Hey @aniciete and @Jennifer. That's right, I tolerated synthetic forms of thyroid, in general, better than NDT. When I first experimented with thyroid in February 2021, to calm hot flashes and tachycardia, NDT gave me intense anxiety and a heart rate that reached 110 bpm, while lowering my body temp.

However, small doses of cynomel (t3-only) resolved my heart rate issue immediately, when I took a few mcg every 2-3 hours as Dr. Peat has described. When this stopped working after 2 weeks, I gave up on it. (What I should have done is titrate up my dose of cynomel.) Then I tried cynoplus a few months later. This did not give me anxiety like NDT, and kept my heart rate calm. But after 1+ years raising my dose of cynoplus, it still didn't raise my waking temp above 97.8F.

These past few weeks I've been lowering my cynoplus and adding cynomel, to achieve a roughly 1.5:1 T4:T3 ratio. This has raised my afternoon temperature above 98.6 some days, which is the best success I've ever had using thyroid. I think cynomel and cynoplus are great, but I might do just as well with other synthetics - like Tyronene and Tyromix.

Thank you for replying, Tyler. :) That’s awesome that the addition of T3 has raised your afternoon temp. Your experience makes sense, since I recall Ray saying that an ideal T4:T3 ratio for the hypothyroid is no more than 3:1 and oftentimes even lower. Have you noticed an improvement in your tolerance to foods such as coffee?

RP wrote me the same about avoiding desiccated liver and kidney tablets, as well as the bone marrow powder. With that being said, with everyone taking “thyroid” what is the source from if it isn’t dried from the gland?

It’s only desiccated thyroid that is sourced from the glands, not synthetic (sodium) thyroid like Synthroid, Cynoplus and Cynomel, however, I had the same question when I started taking prescription NDT (WP Thyroid) and researched the standardization process and if it makes for a purified extract compared to the thyroid glandulars sold as supplements by companies such as Life Giving Store, Ancestral Supplements and Professional Formulas and from my understanding, it’s defatted. On page 663 of A Manual of Metria Medica and Pharmacology by Lea Brothers & Co. Philadelphia and New York from 1906, it states:

“Remove external fat and connective tissue from thyroid glands taken from sheep immediately after killing; cut glands across, rejecting any with cysts or are hypertrophied, or otherwise abnormal; mince finely with healthy glands, dry at 32 -to 38 degrees C. (90-100 degrees F), powder dried product, remove all fat by treating with petroleum benzin, dry residue. It is a yellowish, amorphous powder, slight peculiar odor, containing the active ingredients of the thyroid tissue, partially soluble in water, 1 part equals 5 parts of fresh glands, ash p.c. …plus more details.”

Desiccated Thyroid in Older Medical Books - Stop The Thyroid Madness

This is an ongoing listing of entries from older medical books and research concerning the use of Thyroid Extract (aka … Continued

stopthethyroidmadness.com

 

[Vileplume]

Thank you for replying, Tyler. :) That’s awesome that the addition of T3 has raised your afternoon temp. Your experience makes sense, since I recall Ray saying that an ideal T4:T3 ratio for the hypothyroid is no more than 3:1 and oftentimes even lower. Have you noticed an improvement in your tolerance to foods such as coffee?

My pleasure, Jennifer. I'm glad you tagged me anyway, since we haven't caught up in a while. Yes, I once reached out to Ray via email about low temps (when I was on 1.25 tablets of cynoplus) he said :

"If the liver is very sluggish, the T4 that isn’t converted to T3 accumulates, suppressing TSH, and lowering the T3 that’s notmslly secreted by the thyroid gland. Is your pulse rate slow? High reverse T3, interfering with T3’s effects, is a possibility."

I also came across a lot of studies, like this one, where people with chronic disease didn't respond to T4 or NDT but did respond to T3-only: https://www.drlowe.com/thyroidscience/cases/lowe.9.6.10/lowe.t3.fms.9.6.10.pdf That inspired me to reduce the dose of T4.

My waking temps have improved, but they're still about 3/4 degree below where I want to be. I might increase the dose or just maintain it until summer.

I am finally tolerating coffee again! Previously, coffee would always make me bloated, constipated, and seemed to aggravate my white tongue. However, I realized that carrots were actually causing the white tongue issue, since I was consuming 5-6 per day - much more than Dr. Peat has recommended. So I replaced all my carrots with berries, and my tongue's bacterial coating started to recede. Suddenly I could drink certain brands of coffee (Medium roast affects my intestines better than dark) without getting constipated or bloated. Hoping this continues. But I don't think it was necessarily the thyroid that improved my coffee tolerance - it was the fact that carrots were slowing my digestion, I think.

When do you plan to start Tyromix? I'm interested to see how the switch will go for you.

 

[Jennifer]

My pleasure, Jennifer. I'm glad you tagged me anyway, since we haven't caught up in a while. Yes, I once reached out to Ray via email about low temps (when I was on 1.25 tablets of cynoplus) he said :

"If the liver is very sluggish, the T4 that isn’t converted to T3 accumulates, suppressing TSH, and lowering the T3 that’s notmslly secreted by the thyroid gland. Is your pulse rate slow? High reverse T3, interfering with T3’s effects, is a possibility."

I also came across a lot of studies, like this one, where people with chronic disease didn't respond to T4 or NDT but did respond to T3-only: https://www.drlowe.com/thyroidscience/cases/lowe.9.6.10/lowe.t3.fms.9.6.10.pdf That inspired me to reduce the dose of T4.

My waking temps have improved, but they're still about 3/4 degree below where I want to be. I might increase the dose or just maintain it until summer.

I am finally tolerating coffee again! Previously, coffee would always make me bloated, constipated, and seemed to aggravate my white tongue. However, I realized that carrots were actually causing the white tongue issue, since I was consuming 5-6 per day - much more than Dr. Peat has recommended. So I replaced all my carrots with berries, and my tongue's bacterial coating started to recede. Suddenly I could drink certain brands of coffee (Medium roast affects my intestines better than dark) without getting constipated or bloated. Hoping this continues. But I don't think it was necessarily the thyroid that improved my coffee tolerance - it was the fact that carrots were slowing my digestion, I think.

When do you plan to start Tyromix? I'm interested to see how the switch will go for you.

Woo-hoo! That’s such great news, Tyler! I know how much you love coffee. :) I usually see members praising the carrot salad, but it has always caused me constipation so it’s interesting that you experience it as well. It’s also interesting that you replaced the carrots with berries, one of my staple fruits, which makes our diets even more similar than they already were. lol I’ll let you know how I (and my dad) do with the switch to TyroMix, for sure. Our shipment should be arriving tomorrow. And thank you for posting Ray’s response and the study. I feel less nervous now about switching to a lower ratio. I’ve been hoping that it’s divine intervention because I’ve been contemplating changing to a synthetic ever since my mum’s passing.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

It’s only desiccated thyroid that is sourced from the glands, not synthetic (sodium) thyroid like Synthroid, Cynoplus and Cynomel, however, I had the same question when I started taking prescription NDT (WP Thyroid) and researched the standardization process and if it makes for a purified extract compared to the thyroid glandulars sold as supplements by companies such as Life Giving Store, Ancestral Supplements and Professional Formulas and from my understanding, it’s defatted. On page 663 of A Manual of Metria Medica and Pharmacology by Lea Brothers & Co. Philadelphia and New York from 1906, it states:

“Remove external fat and connective tissue from thyroid glands taken from sheep immediately after killing; cut glands across, rejecting any with cysts or are hypertrophied, or otherwise abnormal; mince finely with healthy glands, dry at 32 -to 38 degrees C. (90-100 degrees F), powder dried product, remove all fat by treating with petroleum benzin, dry residue. It is a yellowish, amorphous powder, slight peculiar odor, containing the active ingredients of the thyroid tissue, partially soluble in water, 1 part equals 5 parts of fresh glands, ash p.c. …plus more details.”

Desiccated Thyroid in Older Medical Books - Stop The Thyroid Madness

This is an ongoing listing of entries from older medical books and research concerning the use of Thyroid Extract (aka … Continued

stopthethyroidmadness.com

Thank you for this very good info Jennifer. You are a wealth of knowledge!

 

[Jennifer]

You’re welcome, @Rinse & rePeat. And thank you. :)

 

[Jennifer]

When do you plan to start Tyromix? I'm interested to see how the switch will go for you.

I’ve been taking TyroMix for a couple of days now and I’m definitely feeling the difference! I noticed it within the first drop, and it sort of freaked me out, initially. I’m getting a third of the T4 and half the T3 I was with TyroMax, but I’m warmer and more energized. One unexpected thing that has been happening is I’ve been peeing a lot and my fingers are no longer swelling when I train. I also woke up this morning noticeably leaner in my midsection, yet I’ve been consuming more calories. Did you notice a reduction in water weight when you switched from natural to synthetic thyroid, Tyler? I’m liking how easy TyroMix is to dose, but it taste gross. lol

 

[Vileplume]

I’ve been taking TyroMix for a couple of days now and I’m definitely feeling the difference! I noticed it within the first drop, and it sort of freaked me out, initially. I’m getting a third of the T4 and half the T3 I was with TyroMax, but I’m warmer and more energized. One unexpected thing that has been happening is I’ve been peeing a lot and my fingers are no longer swelling when I train. I also woke up this morning noticeably leaner in my midsection, yet I’ve been consuming more calories. Did you notice a reduction in water weight when you switched from natural to synthetic thyroid, Tyler? I’m liking how easy TyroMix is to dose, but it taste gross. lol

Jennifer, it's awesome to hear that you feel warmer and more energized, despite being on a lower dose! That's also interesting about the peeing more often and reduction in swelling–it sounds like improved water balance. Have you noticed any other changes?

When I first started using synthetic thyroid with a higher T3 ratio–which was the same day I replaced all my meat with milk–I began dropping all kinds of weight very fast, especially in my stomach. I'm not sure how much was fat vs water, but I definitely notice that my belly stays flatter than other men my age (30 y.o) and I have a lean face. When I was inflamed and eating a lot of meat, I had a puffy face.