Tetracyclines (and A Few Other Antibiotics) As A Cure For Cancer

[Philomath]

I responded to your PM so please feel free to post here. It was a combination of what I had available and what I thought would give equivalent antibiotic power.

There is a very old antibiotic equivalence study I saw years ago that said 100mg doxycycline is roughly equivalent to about 1.5g penicillin. So, I wanted to replicate the back pain study but wanted to do it with a Peat-friendly antibiotic and all I had at the time was doxycycline, so I used that. The mainstream approach was to prescribe Levaquin and I definitely did not want to take that one. I think the only issues with the tetracyclines is a possible depletion of iron, not calcium. There are studies showing iron depletion and these antibiotics are officially known to chelate iron (see the Wiki page on doxy). Somebody on the forum posted recently saying 100mg doxycycline for 2 weeks dropped their ferritin by 40 points. Given that Peat is anti-iron and most people probably have too much stored anyways, it may be a good "side" effect but I would do iron blood tests before/after anyways. -Haidut

Thanks!

 

[goodandevil]

Excellent post.

 

[mrsvacasey]

What vitamin K2 dose would be equivalent to 100mg Doxycycline?

My mum has (we think) colon cancer - huge mass and symptoms. It will be easier to get hold of K2 than Doxycycline.

Thank you.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Back pain from endotoxins is interesting. I am pretty sure my sever headaches are from endotoxins. And they are accompanied by trigger points and very sensitive muscle soreness.

 

[haidut]

What vitamin K2 dose would be equivalent to 100mg Doxycycline?

My mum has (we think) colon cancer - huge mass and symptoms. It will be easier to get hold of K2 than Doxycycline.

Thank you.

I don't know about equivalence but the animal studies with K2 used a human equivalent dose of about 1mg/kg, which is very close to the doses used for doxycycline. The human dose of 1mg/kg is what is defined as effective for osteoporosis in Japan. It just so happens that most patients in the Japanese clinical trials were old and weighed very little, so most studies cut the dose at 45mg/day. There is nothing magical about that dose, it is 1mg/kg that is the real dose for a human. I think there is also benefit on combining K2 with things like niacinamide, methylene blue, aspirin, and cyproheptadine. I have posted studies for each one of these substances in regards to cancer. Cyproheptadine was specifically shown to be "curative" ion colon cancer animal study.
Awful response to cyproheptadine | Ray Peat Forum

People with coloncancer ingesting about 1,500mg caffeine daily ALL survived the 5 year mark regardless of how advanced their disease was.
Caffeine intake in cancer patients increase survival to 100%. Effect is dose dependent, with human study showing 100% survival s 1,500mg caffeine daily divided in 3 equal doses taken every 8 hours.

Winning a Won Game: Caffeine Panacea for Obesity Syndemic

"...These co-administered drugs are so diverse that clearly no common molecular denominator for their combinations is currently in sight. For example, preclinical studies in the rat inoculated with osteosarcoma exposed a striking enhancement by caffeine of the cytocidal effects of platinum-based anticancer drug cisplatin. The extent of tumor inhibition was closely correlated with the average plasma concentration of caffeine [127]. Likewise, adding caffeine to standard chemotherapy enhanced the antitumor response rates in patients with osteosarcoma. On the median follow-up period of 72 months, it extended event-free survival in all patients to 76%, whereas an overall survival reached 100% [128]. Caffeine has also been reported to modulate directly or indirectly the effect of antitumor agents, so as to greatly sensitize tumor cells to genotoxic stress and thus aid in cancer chemoprevention [86]. Chronic exposure to caffeine prior to the appearance of the palpable mammary tumors significantly reduced both the tumor burden and the metastatic colonization [129].

Human study:
Impact of serum caffeine monitoring on adverse effects and chemotherapeutic responses to caffeine-potentiated chemotherapy for osteosarcoma. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Hematological toxic events were well tolerated in both groups. Grade 4 leukocyte toxicity events occurred in both groups. In the nonmonitoring group grade 2 or higher toxicities included 5 elevated aspartate aminotransferase/alanine aminotransferase level events and 17 hyponatremia events versus 1 hyponatremia event in the monitoring group. Histological examination of excised tumor samples after preoperative chemotherapy revealed that chemotherapeutic efficacy in the monitoring group was as good as in the nonmonitoring group. The median follow-up period in all patients was 72 months. Event-free survival was 76%, and overall survival was 100%."

There are many other things that may benefit. I would search each one of the substances mentioned above combined with cancer. For instance "niacinamide cancer" or "methylene blue cancer".

 

[DrAbs]

Dha and Tetracyclines inhibit parp-1. Docosahexaenoic acid and tetracyclines as promising neuroprotective compounds with poly(ADP-ribose) polymerase inhibitory activities for oxidative/ge... - PubMed - NCBI Study mentions parp involved in nucleus mitochondria crosstalk.

Parp-1 inhibition has been linked to better cancer prognosis. Also noteworthy is that parp over activation generally messes up cellular redox status by using up available nad+ which would limit surtuin activation which also has been linked with cancer. I need to do more research on this.

 

[papaya]

what is the best way to take/cycle doxycycline?

 

[charmer]

There are reports about antibiotics staining the teeth. Any idea what to do about this?

Tetracycline chelates calcium and gets into teeth when the teeth are growing (children). I haven't seen info about staining teeth in adults.

A few blogs out there told a story about teeth being remineralized with K2 (the Green Pastures Butter Oil), so it is possible tetracycline may achieve that as well? I guess there is no evidence yet.
So assuming remineralization with tetracycline later in life was possible, it could stain teeth in this case. But I don't know about such cases.

 

[Texon]

I'm not entirely sure it was progesterone,
but I think so.
He was talking about topically treating...what?...
it was either suspicious moles/spots
or maybe just age spots...I think it was the former.

I think I may have it in some notes I made.
But it stuck in my head because it seemed kinda weird.
Probably that nutty Roseanne Barr-like woman interrupted him
as he was trying to explain why one should do it like that...

I believe Peat used dhea.

 

[Regina]

I don't know that here is any upper limit. For chronic back pain (which is related to endotoxin) a human study found that 2-3 months duration are needed to successfully treat it. Lyme disease patients also take 6-12 month course of antibiotics. It really depends on the case, and the only issues that I am aware of with long term use is fungal overgrowth and iron deficiency. The iron depletion effects is likely responsible for a good portion of the anti-cancer effects of the tetracyclines.

haidut, (you probably know what I am going to ask ). My re-test (attached) of iron panel,with CBC this time around, indicates continued iron deficiency. Though, ferritin remains very low, I still think I am dealing with a lung issue (maybe old upper resp biofilms) - so simultaneous IDA and Anemia of Chronic Disease. My Doc seems to be strenuously irritated by my questioning dogma and seeks a "you're with us or against us" decision from me.
I would like to just stay on a regimen of mino (or tetracycline), kuinone, lisiride, cypro, niacinamide, MB, caffeine, aspirin, preg, prog, tyronene, retinil, and KlaireLabs Interfase enzymes.
I will say my hair, skin and nails look fantastic. Clear eyes with trippy iris sparkle. I can walk 5 miles along the lake everyday (but no aikido).
Obviously, this is the opposite of the conventional med direction.
Do you have any thoughts you would share? (such as further tests, to supp iron or not?, .....).
Thank you.
(previous test also attached for comparison)

 

[haidut]

haidut, (you probably know what I am going to ask ). My re-test (attached) of iron panel,with CBC this time around, indicates continued iron deficiency. Though, ferritin remains very low, I still think I am dealing with a lung issue (maybe old upper resp biofilms) - so simultaneous IDA and Anemia of Chronic Disease. My Doc seems to be strenuously irritated by my questioning dogma and seeks a "you're with us or against us" decision from me.
I would like to just stay on a regimen of mino (or tetracycline), kuinone, lisiride, cypro, niacinamide, MB, caffeine, aspirin, preg, prog, tyronene, retinil, and KlaireLabs Interfase enzymes.
I will say my hair, skin and nails look fantastic. Clear eyes with trippy iris sparkle. I can walk 5 miles along the lake everyday (but no aikido).
Obviously, this is the opposite of the conventional med direction.
Do you have any thoughts you would share? (such as further tests, to supp iron or not?, .....).
Thank you.
(previous test also attached for comparison)

Well, I'll defer to your doctor for a final decision but I don't think you have "anemia of chronic disease". In that condition, ferritin is HIGH and serum iron is usually low or sometimes normal. With low ferritin, this suggests classic iron-deficiency anemia. Tetracyclines can powerfully lower ferritin and so can aspirin, progesterone, and possibly cypro.
What is the doctor suggesting you should do?

 

[Regina]

Well, I'll defer to your doctor for a final decision but I don't think you have "anemia of chronic disease". In that condition, ferritin is HIGH and serum iron is usually low or sometimes normal. With low ferritin, this suggests classic iron-deficiency anemia. Tetracyclines can powerfully lower ferritin and so can aspirin, progesterone, and possibly cypro.
What is the doctor suggesting you should do?

Thanks haidut! Well, I've only gone twice. She was just mad that I was still "looking at the internet" and we only drew blood. She posted the results to my online chart with the advice to immeditately supplementing iron 3 x daily and to call her tuesday to talk about the plan for more tests.
I'm just so afraid she will want bone marrow asparation. And then I am sucked into a protocol of painful tests that will in the end prove the wrong direction.
I wish I could determine the likely cause before stepping into the FUD of conv med.

 

[haidut]

Thanks haidut! Well, I've only gone twice. She was just mad that I was still "looking at the internet" and we only drew blood. She posted the results to my online chart with the advice to immeditately supplementing iron 3 x daily and to call her tuesday to talk about the plan for more tests.
I'm just so afraid she will want bone marrow asparation. And then I am sucked into a protocol of painful tests that will in the end prove the wrong direction.
I wish I could determine the likely cause before stepping into the FUD of conv med.

Like I said before, eating liver a few times a week should provide enough iron. You have every right to push back and say that it could be a simple iron deficiency and you refuse to submit to more invasive tests until you have been on the "iron supplement" (liver) regimen for at least 1 month. In fact, I am pretty sure it is unethical (or even illegal) for her to push for more invasive tests until the iron deficiency anemia has been ruled out.
A close friend has a child who got diagnosed by one of the best pediatricians in DC with "talassemia" due to low RBC and low iron. The doctor of course pushed for genetic tests and bone marrow sample but my friend refused and went to a hematologist. The hematologist laughed long and hard and prescribed a 2 month course of iron supplement. All parameters normalized and the hematologist said it was simply iron deficiency due to exclusive breast feeding for 2 years. Milk can chelate iron quite well.
Needless to say the pediatrician does not want to see the child any more and refused to apologize saying that that's why specialists exist - to correct "simple" mistakes the pediatricians make. But those same pediatrician never recommended seeing a hematologist, my friend did it on his own accord and dime. The pediatrician simply pushed for more invasive tests and even stem cell therapy.
Btw, if I were you I would remind her that there is no more "with us or against us" mantra. In fact, there are no doctors any more. It's just a provider and consumer of health services and as a consumer you have the right to question the quality and direction of everything the provider pushes to you. No different than car dealers trying to sell you a lemon, and at least they don't complain when you inspect everything and question their rationale.

 

[Regina]

Like I said before, eating liver a few times a week should provide enough iron. You have every right to push back and say that it could be a simple iron deficiency and you refuse to submit to more invasive tests until you have been on the "iron supplement" (liver) regimen for at least 1 month. In fact, I am pretty sure it is unethical (or even illegal) for her to push for more invasive tests until the iron deficiency anemia has been ruled out.
A close friend has a child who got diagnosed by one of the best pediatricians in DC with "talassemia" due to low RBC and low iron. The doctor of course pushed for genetic tests and bone marrow sample but my friend refused and went to a hematologist. The hematologist laughed long and hard and prescribed a 2 month course of iron supplement. All parameters normalized and the hematologist said it was simply iron deficiency due to exclusive breast feeding for 2 years. Milk can chelate iron quite well.
Needless to say the pediatrician does not want to see the child any more and refused to apologize saying that that's why specialists exist - to correct "simple" mistakes the pediatricians make. But those same pediatrician never recommended seeing a hematologist, my friend did it on his own accord and dime. The pediatrician simply pushed for more invasive tests and even stem cell therapy.
Btw, if I were you I would remind her that there is no more "with us or against us" mantra. In fact, there are no doctors any more. It's just a provider and consumer or health services and as a consumer you have the right to question the quality and direction of everything the provider pushes to you. No different than car dealers trying to sell you a lemon, and at least they don't complain when you inspect everything and question their rationale.

Thanks so much for this haidut. (love the care dealer/lemon analogy!! spot on!).
So, I think I damaged the data by not complying to stay away from iron chelating substances between tests. I was taking a fistful of dessicated liver pills with Defibron in the morning and making lamb shanks and meat stews and an oyster stew last night. BUT haha, also taking mino, megadosing K2, etc., and lots of coffee too--treating myself to some aspirin because it's what makes my chest feel the best. To be honest, I think I did clean out (expectorate) my old chest biofilms and I am glad to be rid of that before taking a committed iron load-in.
I think I'll keep up the MB, add-in famotidine and gingerly use of lisuride (anti-fibrosis while my lungs heal?). Hopefully, I can keep my coffee.
Thank you

 

[Waynish]

Is there a way to classify antibiotic drugs that allows us to understand the different use cases that each are best fit for? I'm also curious where antihistamines like cyproheptadine and anti-fungals like nystatin fall in such a classification system.

 

[haidut]

Is there a way to classify antibiotic drugs that allows us to understand the different use cases that each are best fit for? I'm also curious where antihistamines like cyproheptadine and anti-fungals like nystatin fall in such a classification system.

The only classification I know of is in regards to the types of bacteria they kill. But it is fairly easy to see which ones are quinones or have electron withdrawing properties in general, based on their molecular structure.

 

[dookie]

Like I said before, eating liver a few times a week should provide enough iron. You have every right to push back and say that it could be a simple iron deficiency and you refuse to submit to more invasive tests until you have been on the "iron supplement" (liver) regimen for at least 1 month. In fact, I am pretty sure it is unethical (or even illegal) for her to push for more invasive tests until the iron deficiency anemia has been ruled out.
A close friend has a child who got diagnosed by one of the best pediatricians in DC with "talassemia" due to low RBC and low iron. The doctor of course pushed for genetic tests and bone marrow sample but my friend refused and went to a hematologist. The hematologist laughed long and hard and prescribed a 2 month course of iron supplement. All parameters normalized and the hematologist said it was simply iron deficiency due to exclusive breast feeding for 2 years. Milk can chelate iron quite well.
Needless to say the pediatrician does not want to see the child any more and refused to apologize saying that that's why specialists exist - to correct "simple" mistakes the pediatricians make. But those same pediatrician never recommended seeing a hematologist, my friend did it on his own accord and dime. The pediatrician simply pushed for more invasive tests and even stem cell therapy.
Btw, if I were you I would remind her that there is no more "with us or against us" mantra. In fact, there are no doctors any more. It's just a provider and consumer of health services and as a consumer you have the right to question the quality and direction of everything the provider pushes to you. No different than car dealers trying to sell you a lemon, and at least they don't complain when you inspect everything and question their rationale.

I find it that it's best to avoid doctors all together. For people reading on these forums, they are more informed than any doctor. In most cases, sick people will probably reverse themselves to health, just with good diet. Peat said that only seriously sick people should use antibiotics or hormonal supplements. I think the problem with doctors is that they are not cautious enough. Even the alternative pro-thyroid doctors, will just give T3 or T4 and keep raising the dose, even if the patient feels worse, and may not be what they need. A doctor who takes a very careful approach, with testing and listening to the patient, and who rejects most supplements - both conventional and alternative ones - is very rare. Ultimately, you can do much more yourself, by just being aware of how things affect you, and slowly try the safest supplements.

Just because a doctor tells you to try a natural vitamin doesn't mean he knows what he's doing, or that the particular vitamin will help or be side-effect free.

I think most supplements and medications do far more damage than the original disease would have done had it been left alone

 

[alywest]

Thanks so much for this haidut. (love the care dealer/lemon analogy!! spot on!).
So, I think I damaged the data by not complying to stay away from iron chelating substances between tests. I was taking a fistful of dessicated liver pills with Defibron in the morning and making lamb shanks and meat stews and an oyster stew last night. BUT haha, also taking mino, megadosing K2, etc., and lots of coffee too--treating myself to some aspirin because it's what makes my chest feel the best. To be honest, I think I did clean out (expectorate) my old chest biofilms and I am glad to be rid of that before taking a committed iron load-in.
I think I'll keep up the MB, add-in famotidine and gingerly use of lisuride (anti-fibrosis while my lungs heal?). Hopefully, I can keep my coffee.
Thank you

Regina, did you ever get this iron situation figured out? Also, did you ever hear of lactoferrin? Some people have recommended it as a "safe" form of iron or something. Not sure I totally understand. I have a lot of iron from taking megadoses during pregnancy but I have actually heard convincing arguments that vitamin c should be taken several times a day to help your body handle iron properly. Of course if you're trying to raise iron maybe taking vitamin c with iron rich meats and stuff. I'm sure you're already on your way with it all but I was just curious. Iron seems to be an issue for me, just the reverse problem!

 

[Regina]

Regina, did you ever get this iron situation figured out? Also, did you ever hear of lactoferrin? Some people have recommended it as a "safe" form of iron or something. Not sure I totally understand. I have a lot of iron from taking megadoses during pregnancy but I have actually heard convincing arguments that vitamin c should be taken several times a day to help your body handle iron properly. Of course if you're trying to raise iron maybe taking vitamin c with iron rich meats and stuff. I'm sure you're already on your way with it all but I was just curious. Iron seems to be an issue for me, just the reverse problem!

Ummm, I haven't had any labs done since July. But I am back on the aikido mat. I can train a 1 hr rigorous class. Just a bit of wheezing in the first 10 minutes and then it clears away. I have no apparent adrenalin/NE issues anymore. But I would not be able to handle taking 2 classes in a row. (without hypoglycemic symptoms).
I'm sure I am still low iron but unless symptoms come back, I'll probably keep training and not getting any labs for a few months.

 

[alywest]

Ummm, I haven't had any labs done since July. But I am back on the aikido mat. I can train a 1 hr rigorous class. Just a bit of wheezing in the first 10 minutes and then it clears away. I have no apparent adrenalin/NE issues anymore. But I would not be able to handle taking 2 classes in a row. (without hypoglycemic symptoms).
I'm sure I am still low iron but unless symptoms come back, I'll probably keep training and not getting any labs for a few months.

Cool, that's good that you're doing better. Just curious if there were any "aha" moments with it. Iron is so confusing!