Tetracyclines (and A Few Other Antibiotics) As A Cure For Cancer

[narouz]

For chronic back pain (which is related to endotoxin) a human study found that 2-3 months duration are needed to successfully treat it.

Here haidut, are you thinking of that fairly recent study
where they say they find in herniated discs
the same bacteria that causes acne...?
In that study they used pretty high doses of Amoxicillin/clavulanate 875 mg / 125 mg
for about the length of time you mention.

I have that on the back burner as a possibility with my own chronic lower back pain,
but I'd feel better if I could use a tetracycline.

Just wondering if you'd seen a different study using tetracyclines,
or if you'd guess tetracyclines might be as effective as the Amoxicillin/clavulanate....?

 

[haidut]

post 108033

For chronic back pain (which is related to endotoxin) a human study found that 2-3 months duration are needed to successfully treat it.

Here haidut, are you thinking of that fairly recent study
where they say they find in herniated discs
the same bacteria that causes acne...?
In that study they used pretty high doses of Amoxicillin/clavulanate 875 mg / 125 mg
for about the length of time you mention.

I have that on the back burner as a possibility with my own chronic lower back pain,
but I'd feel better if I could use a tetracycline.

Just wondering if you'd seen a different study using tetracyclines,
or if you'd guess tetracyclines might be as effective as the Amoxicillin/clavulanate....?

Less than a gram of amoxicillin is not that big of a deal. I have been treated with 1.5g daily for 2 weeks and some people have gotten 2g daily for a month for things like diverticulitis. In terms of effectiveness, a tetracycline type at 100mg daily should at least match 1g of amoxicillin assuming the bacteria is susceptible to either one. Some people even get a cocktail to ensure it kills all bacteria. Btw, MB should be able to also kill the bacteria at doses of 10mg+ daily combined with lying under red light shining on your painful back. That's what I used on myself a year ago and it worked like a charn...after sweating like a racehorse for an hour 3 nights in a row My dose was actually 20mg every time but I found evidence that even lower dose should work if combined with red light.

 

[lexis]

There are reports about antibiotics staining the teeth. Any idea what to do about this?

 

[EIRE24]

Haidut,

What are your thoughts on tetracycline for acne? I was prescribed it by my doctor and he has put me on a course of 300mg of tetracycline daily for one month to see if it will help improve things. I'm just worried about possible side effects or the acne coming back worse if it is a case that the tetracycline clears it up. I have a feeling I may have some sort of messed up gut or sibo as when I increase fruit I my acne gets much worse.

Anyway, would love to know wether you would think it is a good or bad idea to give this anti biotic a try for acne.

Thanks

 

[piotr_zarach]

I use tetracykline for two weeks on dose 250-500 and first time in life have clear face and constipation first time too. So it lower serotonin

 

[EIRE24]

post 108294 I use tetracykline for two weeks on dose 250-500 and first time in life have clear face and constipation first time too. So it lower serotonin

You got constipation from the tetracycline or you are free from constipation? I know that I have very high serotonin so I think I will start to use it but I am intrigued to hear what Haidut has to say.

How long have you suffered with acne? And how do you take your tetracycline dose? I am hoping it will help clear up my face too

 

[piotr_zarach]

post 108297

post 108294 I use tetracykline for two weeks on dose 250-500 and first time in life have clear face and constipation first time too. So it lower serotonin

You got constipation from the tetracycline or you are free from constipation? I know that I have very high serotonin so I think I will start to use it but I am intrigued to hear what Haidut has to say.

How long have you suffered with acne? And how do you take your tetracycline dose? I am hoping it will help clear up my face too

It gives me constipation. I use 250 X2 daily two h after meal.

 

[EIRE24]

post 108298

post 108297

post 108294 I use tetracykline for two weeks on dose 250-500 and first time in life have clear face and constipation first time too. So it lower serotonin

You got constipation from the tetracycline or you are free from constipation? I know that I have very high serotonin so I think I will start to use it but I am intrigued to hear what Haidut has to say.

How long have you suffered with acne? And how do you take your tetracycline dose? I am hoping it will help clear up my face too

It gives me constipation. I use 250 X2 daily two h after meal.

Thats strange that it cleared up your acne but it gives you constipation. I thought it would actually help with bowel transit but obviously i'm wrong. How long have you been taking it for, 2 weeks? How long more will you take it for?

 

[narouz]

post 108252

post 108033

For chronic back pain (which is related to endotoxin) a human study found that 2-3 months duration are needed to successfully treat it.

Here haidut, are you thinking of that fairly recent study
where they say they find in herniated discs
the same bacteria that causes acne...?
In that study they used pretty high doses of Amoxicillin/clavulanate 875 mg / 125 mg
for about the length of time you mention.

I have that on the back burner as a possibility with my own chronic lower back pain,
but I'd feel better if I could use a tetracycline.

Just wondering if you'd seen a different study using tetracyclines,
or if you'd guess tetracyclines might be as effective as the Amoxicillin/clavulanate....?

Less than a gram of amoxicillin is not that big of a deal. I have been treated with 1.5g daily for 2 weeks and some people have gotten 2g daily for a month for things like diverticulitis. In terms of effectiveness, a tetracycline type at 100mg daily should at least match 1g of amoxicillin assuming the bacteria is susceptible to either one. Some people even get a cocktail to ensure it kills all bacteria. Btw, MB should be able to also kill the bacteria at doses of 10mg+ daily combined with lying under red light shining on your painful back. That's what I used on myself a year ago and it worked like a charn...after sweating like a racehorse for an hour 3 nights in a row My dose was actually 20mg every time but I found evidence that even lower dose should work if combined with red light.

You know, haidut,
you've posted before about MB and red light used together,
and from that I'd concocted/planned the same approach to try on my back!--
taking MB and shining a lot of red light on my back.

So thanks a lot for relating your back experience!
I wish you'd enlarge on it some, if you feel like it.
Was it lower back pain?
Chronic?
Do you have any idea about the nature of your back problems--bulging disc, herniated disc, whatever?
From your race-horse sweating experience ,
I gather you used heat lamps for your red light? How many watts?
Do you think you were having endotoxin problems at the time?

The fairly recent studies I've seen about antibiotics and back pain
point to specific types of back problems as being candidates for successful antibiotic intervention.
In the one I referred to above, where they used "Augmentin 875 mg" for 100 days,
they tried it on people with something like "modic 3" type of disc disease:
probably have that naming a little wrong, but point is they targeted a specific, narrow kind of back problem/candidate.

Also they point to a specific bacteria they found in the disc fluid/tissue--the acne bacteria.

And with the MB injection study/studies,
seems like (as I remember) they also targeted a specific kind of disc problem/disease.

It seems you're approaching back problems more generally,
under the Peat umbrella view that backaches are usually rooted in gut/endotoxin problems.
And so maybe those studies (above) worked in many cases,
but perhaps not exactly for the reasons those researchers think.
I'm very willing to go along with you in that way of looking at it.

I don't mean to detour this thread.
Maybe you'd prefer to respond in a new/different thread.
That's fine.
I'm just eager as to learn about/try what you did.
For the last year or so it has been (to resort to a pithy way to convey it)
difficult to even wipe my butt after using the toilet.

 

[lexis]

post 108303

post 108298

post 108297

post 108294 I use tetracykline for two weeks on dose 250-500 and first time in life have clear face and constipation first time too. So it lower serotonin

You got constipation from the tetracycline or you are free from constipation? I know that I have very high serotonin so I think I will start to use it but I am intrigued to hear what Haidut has to say.

How long have you suffered with acne? And how do you take your tetracycline dose? I am hoping it will help clear up my face too

It gives me constipation. I use 250 X2 daily two h after meal.

Thats strange that it cleared up your acne but it gives you constipation. I thought it would actually help with bowel transit but obviously i'm wrong. How long have you been taking it for, 2 weeks? How long more will you take it for?

Constipation is a symptom of serotonin depletion.Sort of a good thing.

 

[charlie]

post 108307 "Augmentin 875 mg" for 100 days

narouz, check out this topic I posted:
Ray Peat Topics>Pharmaceutical Drugs>"Augmentin"

Also, Such_Saturation has voiced his concerns about "potassium clavulanate".

 

[narouz]

post 108311

post 108307 "Augmentin 875 mg" for 100 days

narouz, check out this topic I posted:
Ray Peat Topics>Pharmaceutical Drugs>"Augmentin"

Also, Such_Saturation has voiced his concerns about "potassium clavulanate".

Yeah I will check those things out!
Thanks, Charlie!

That is the specific antibiotic they used in the back pain study (100 days) oft referred to.
That's why I mention it,
and I've resisted going down that specific antibiotic road because I just don't know much about it.

I've not found info from the researchers as to why they used that Augmentin.
But I think I put together that is probably because that clavulanate is kinda a "force multiplier"
(if I can import a military term into medical lands),
by virtue of the fact, as I'm recalling, that it allows for deeper penetration into soft tissue.
That was just my guess as to why they specified Augmentin use in the study.

BTW...
if you think the thread might better be split off
so haidut can elaborate on his sweaty racehorse experience ,
by all means....

edit: ah, I see, Charlie--about the clavulanate:
arginine and phosphate, in one pill.
Lovely!
I took just the straight amoxicillin not long ago for a week or so
for a dental infection possibility,
and it didn't have those effects you describe with the Augmentin.
But...I've had bad fall-out/aftermaths, I think,
from antibiotics in the few years--even the Peatian ones in low dosages.
This is one factor motivating my hobbyhorses about Candida, probiotics, soluble fiber, etc.
I'd consider for seriously going the antibiotic route if I could use a tetracycline family antibiotic (or MB!)

 

[charlie]

Yeh we can split this.

I would just rather use plain ole Penicillin or Amoxicillin. DMSO is reported to be a force multiplier.

 

[narouz]

post 108321 Yeh we can split this.

I would just rather use plain ole Penicillin or Amoxicillin. DMSO is reported to be a force multiplier.

I would too.
Or MB even better!

On the other hand,
the way I've been weighing things,
and weighing the suckitude of my back problems...

I might try the Augmentin if I was persuaded one had to use that specific antibiotic for a real reason.
Because my backache does suck!

But damn! It's not just the Augmentin.
You also gotta take it for 100 days!
That is, if you're gonna follow the study.

That is a steep hill for me to climb.
So far I've balked.
I've thought too,
that if I was really going to do it,
I would first drop like $400 for an MRI
and have a chiropractor/doctor diagnose my specific back problem/disease
to see if I fit that "Modic 3" candidacy they used in the study.

I keep adding steepness multipliers when I contemplate following that study....

 

[haidut]

post 108307

post 108252

post 108033

For chronic back pain (which is related to endotoxin) a human study found that 2-3 months duration are needed to successfully treat it.

Here haidut, are you thinking of that fairly recent study
where they say they find in herniated discs
the same bacteria that causes acne...?
In that study they used pretty high doses of Amoxicillin/clavulanate 875 mg / 125 mg
for about the length of time you mention.

I have that on the back burner as a possibility with my own chronic lower back pain,
but I'd feel better if I could use a tetracycline.

Just wondering if you'd seen a different study using tetracyclines,
or if you'd guess tetracyclines might be as effective as the Amoxicillin/clavulanate....?

Less than a gram of amoxicillin is not that big of a deal. I have been treated with 1.5g daily for 2 weeks and some people have gotten 2g daily for a month for things like diverticulitis. In terms of effectiveness, a tetracycline type at 100mg daily should at least match 1g of amoxicillin assuming the bacteria is susceptible to either one. Some people even get a cocktail to ensure it kills all bacteria. Btw, MB should be able to also kill the bacteria at doses of 10mg+ daily combined with lying under red light shining on your painful back. That's what I used on myself a year ago and it worked like a charn...after sweating like a racehorse for an hour 3 nights in a row My dose was actually 20mg every time but I found evidence that even lower dose should work if combined with red light.

You know, haidut,
you've posted before about MB and red light used together,
and from that I'd concocted/planned the same approach to try on my back!--
taking MB and shining a lot of red light on my back.

So thanks a lot for relating your back experience!
I wish you'd enlarge on it some, if you feel like it.
Was it lower back pain?
Chronic?
Do you have any idea about the nature of your back problems--bulging disc, herniated disc, whatever?
From your race-horse sweating experience ,
I gather you used heat lamps for your red light? How many watts?
Do you think you were having endotoxin problems at the time?

The fairly recent studies I've seen about antibiotics and back pain
point to specific types of back problems as being candidates for successful antibiotic intervention.
In the one I referred to above, where they used "Augmentin 875 mg" for 100 days,
they tried it on people with something like "modic 3" type of disc disease:
probably have that naming a little wrong, but point is they targeted a specific, narrow kind of back problem/candidate.

Also they point to a specific bacteria they found in the disc fluid/tissue--the acne bacteria.

And with the MB injection study/studies,
seems like (as I remember) they also targeted a specific kind of disc problem/disease.

It seems you're approaching back problems more generally,
under the Peat umbrella view that backaches are usually rooted in gut/endotoxin problems.
And so maybe those studies (above) worked in many cases,
but perhaps not exactly for the reasons those researchers think.
I'm very willing to go along with you in that way of looking at it.

I don't mean to detour this thread.
Maybe you'd prefer to respond in a new/different thread.
That's fine.
I'm just eager as to learn about/try what you did.
For the last year or so it has been (to resort to a pithy way to convey it)
difficult to even wipe my butt after using the toilet.

I had several imaging sessions on my lower back. One of them was X-ray and I loaded up on MB, niacinamide, aspirin, thyroid, etc before having it. The others were MRI and ultrasound. Not only did the imaging not find anything, the report noted my discs were of uncharacteristically fine shape for my age, so that's that. After the imaging the doctor told me it's from sitting in a bad chair all day but I knew it was more than that as changing the chair did not fix anything. Ray says lower back pain is usually from endotoxin and in my case I concur 100%. After taking the antibiotic and doing the MB it disappeared and have not had it since. I sometimes get a vague feeling like I am about to get back pain and it always happens when I eat something with carrageenan in it, so it definitely irritating the gut.

 

[piotr_zarach]

In my case some starch and talc from aspirin or some new brand of milk is enough to wake up with strong back pain. I don't connected it before.

 

[narouz]

I had several imaging sessions on my lower back. One of them was X-ray and I loaded up on MB, niacinamide, aspirin, thyroid, etc before having it. The others were MRI and ultrasound. Not only did the imaging not find anything, the report noted my discs were of uncharacteristically fine shape for my age, so that's that. After the imaging the doctor told me it's from sitting in a bad chair all day but I knew it was more than that as changing the chair did not fix anything. Ray says lower back pain is usually from endotoxin and in my case I concur 100%. After taking the antibiotic and doing the MB it disappeared and have not had it since. I sometimes get a vague feeling like I am about to get back pain and it always happens when I eat something with carrageenan in it, so it definitely irritating the gut.

Interesting that the imaging did not see inflammation.
Maybe that's normal?
Did you say above what antibiotic you took and for how long
(sorry, but I'm very interested and may try to follow in your footsteps :) .)

I wonder how the irritated gut and lower back ache relationship works:
Is it that bacteria actually invade the back tissue/disks/fluid,
as one of the studies highlighted (with the acne bacteria)...?
or
is it more like gut serotonin cascades all sorts of inflammatory stuff
and those inflammatory agents (like NO, histamine, etc)
effect the lower back...?

So in the latter case,
the antibiotic would be seen as having its salient effect on the gut--
not so much on bacteria in the back.

That's great that you were able to get rid of your back pain!
I will have to try taking (higher than usual dosing of) MB and lying under intense red light.
Thanks!

 

[haidut]

post 109402

I had several imaging sessions on my lower back. One of them was X-ray and I loaded up on MB, niacinamide, aspirin, thyroid, etc before having it. The others were MRI and ultrasound. Not only did the imaging not find anything, the report noted my discs were of uncharacteristically fine shape for my age, so that's that. After the imaging the doctor told me it's from sitting in a bad chair all day but I knew it was more than that as changing the chair did not fix anything. Ray says lower back pain is usually from endotoxin and in my case I concur 100%. After taking the antibiotic and doing the MB it disappeared and have not had it since. I sometimes get a vague feeling like I am about to get back pain and it always happens when I eat something with carrageenan in it, so it definitely irritating the gut.

Interesting that the imaging did not see inflammation.
Maybe that's normal?
Did you say above what antibiotic you took and for how long
(sorry, but I'm very interested and may try to follow in your footsteps :) .)

I wonder how the irritated gut and lower back ache relationship works:
Is it that bacteria actually invade the back tissue/disks/fluid,
as one of the studies highlighted (with the acne bacteria)...?
or
is it more like gut serotonin cascades all sorts of inflammatory stuff
and those inflammatory agents (like NO, histamine, etc)
effect the lower back...?

So in the latter case,
the antibiotic would be seen as having its salient effect on the gut--
not so much on bacteria in the back.

That's great that you were able to get rid of your back pain!
I will have to try taking (higher than usual dosing of) MB and lying under intense red light.
Thanks!

For the back pain I took 100mg doxycycline for a month. The Augmentin was for an ear/sinus infection back in 2009.

 

[barefooter]

post 107905 For chronic back pain (which is related to endotoxin) a human study found that 2-3 months duration are needed to successfully treat it

Interesting, that's the first I've heard of that, but I'm not really surprised. Can you share any links/studies about this? I used to have mild chronic low back pain, which I always figured was from office work and sitting too much. I sit just as much now and haven't improved my posture, and I rarely have back pain anymore.

 

[haidut]

post 109462

post 107905 For chronic back pain (which is related to endotoxin) a human study found that 2-3 months duration are needed to successfully treat it

Interesting, that's the first I've heard of that, but I'm not really surprised. Can you share any links/studies about this? I used to have mild chronic low back pain, which I always figured was from office work and sitting too much. I sit just as much now and haven't improved my posture, and I rarely have back pain anymore.

Share links for what? Antibiotics for back pain? Here is one review and it has all the references:
http://www.painresearchforum.org/news/2 ... y-suggests