Tests Needed For A View Into The Hormonal Profile Of Panic Attacks?

[2ManyHistamines]

Hi everyone.

I am a 31 year old balding male who has suffered panic attacks since age 19.

I was diagnosed with Kryptopyroluria by an alternative M.D. in 2014. She found elevated levels of free copper and tested whole blood histamine which was on the low end, indicating overmethylation according to her. I commenced her copper purging protocol of high zinc, molybdenum, vit C, P-5-P, and Evening Primrose Oil (shudders) until the panic attacks were extreme and lasted all day. Thank God I had a prescription of alprazolam at the time!

At the time I had an iron saturation of 47%, which this M.D. did not see any problems with. I knew from Haidut's research that this was a big deal and intricately linked to copper. If it weren't for Haidut an iron panel would not have even been run. I quit seeing this Doctor and commenced blood donation and took active steps to block dietary iron.

I am a bit lost in the fog of recommended tests. Do I want to test Free T3 and Free T4, or whole T3 and whole T4? My "normal" Aunt and Down Syndrome Uncle were just diagnosed with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, and my mom was diagnosed hypo but was never tested for antibodies. (they are all siblings). My grandmother, their mother, was an estrogenic mess and the breast cancer/chemo took her life. I have read Broda Barne's book and my temps are usually around 96.4. The higher my temps, the better I feel. I would have commenced with Broda Barne's recommendations, but I am afraid the situation is more complex nowadays with PUFA being rammed down all of our mouths. The last thing I want is 2 weeks straight of panic due to the half life of T4.

My digestion is non noticeable most of the time. However, all meals accompany either a minor or major reaction to histamine. Symptoms range from runny nose to feeling downright drugged and debilitated with anxiety/brain fog/negativity. For instance, I cannot tolerate the recommended Orange Juice without feeling manic.

I get plenty of calories and have gained 50 pounds since lurking here

2ManyHistamines, Today at 11:32 AM Report

 

[Hans]

Test for TSH, whole T4, whole T3 and rT3. You can also test for estradiol, estrone-S, DHEA-S, prolactin and cortisol.

Have you tried taurine, glycine, magnesium, theanine, pregnenolone, phosphatidylserine, vitamin C, inosine or some kind of adaptogen (Ashwagandha, Rhodiola, etc) for anxiety, and if so, which ones worked?

 

[2ManyHistamines]

Have you tried taurine, glycine, magnesium, theanine, pregnenolone, phosphatidylserine, vitamin C, inosine or some kind of adaptogen (Ashwagandha, Rhodiola, etc) for anxiety, and if so, which ones worked?

I have tried all of the above except for phosphatidylserine and inosine.

The one time I tried pregnenolone, I took roughly 15mg as I get panic/hypochondria when trying new things so I start low and slow. It was a Vitamin Shoppe product so maybe not the best quality. I noticed a slight countering of the stress response during the day but at night I got vivid nightmares, which is abnormal for me.

Taurine and glycine are the only substances that stand out as working well for me. Used together they give me great energy/positivity/higher temperatures like nothing I have experienced.

I have used theanine alone to stop mounting anxiety before it turns into panic but it seems to be hit or miss.

 

[2ManyHistamines]

Test for TSH, whole T4, whole T3 and rT3. You can also test for estradiol, estrone-S, DHEA-S, prolactin and cortisol.

Thank you Hans! This will keep me moving forward.

 

[Mauritio]

I think digestion might be at root of your problems.
Have you ever tried anti biotics or something like that?
Also adrenaline is often implicated in panic attacks which goes up after food not being digested and endotoxin and stress hormones rising ...
I read a study a few years ago where they gave intravenous lactic acid to people and in some people it was able to trigger a panic attack . It was only in people who were susceptible to getting panic attacks in the first place though. So this might show that metabolism is heavily involved in panic attacks as glycolysis produces a lot of lactic acid as byproduct.

 

[Kunstruct]

Rhodiola is good for anxiety? I have tried it once like a year ago and it caused the opposite of calmness.
Vitamin C is a cofactor for Noradrenaline and for Tyrosine into L-Dopa, this can be used for anxiety?

 

[2ManyHistamines]

I think digestion might be at root of your problems.
Have you ever tried anti biotics or something like that?
Also adrenaline is often implicated in panic attacks which goes up after food not being digested and endotoxin and stress hormones rising ...
I read a study a few years ago where they gave intravenous lactic acid to people and in some people it was able to trigger a panic attack . It was only in people who were susceptible to getting panic attacks in the first place though. So this might show that metabolism is heavily involved in panic attacks as glycolysis produces a lot of lactic acid as byproduct.

I don't doubt I have the proverbial "leaky gut", leaky cells in general. I rarely get digestive pain/discomfort, yet the responses to different foods is highly noticeable.
If I eat tomato sauce on a particularly sensitive day, it can give me almost an out of body experience. Like I'm in a trance of extreme brain fog. I have heard Ray mention some people are so sensitive to seretonin that tomato products can induce pronounced effects.

I've never tried antibiotics.

I bet I am one of the people who has up to 38x's the adrenaline of the average person. Before alprazolam was prescribed to me in the beginning of this mess, I was 2 hours into a severe panic attack when my vision turned red. I closed my eyes and decided not to open them for anything!

I bet my lactic acid, cortisol and serotonin are high. I will have tests to confirm soon.

 

[Mauritio]

I don't doubt I have the proverbial "leaky gut", leaky cells in general. I rarely get digestive pain/discomfort, yet the responses to different foods is highly noticeable.
If I eat tomato sauce on a particularly sensitive day, it can give me almost an out of body experience. Like I'm in a trance of extreme brain fog. I have heard Ray mention some people are so sensitive to seretonin that tomato products can induce pronounced effects.

I've never tried antibiotics.

I bet I am one of the people who has up to 38x's the adrenaline of the average person. Before alprazolam was prescribed to me in the beginning of this mess, I was 2 hours into a severe panic attack when my vision turned red. I closed my eyes and decided not to open them for anything!

I bet my lactic acid, cortisol and serotonin are high. I will have tests to confirm soon.

You might be a candidate for lidocaine , @Adrenaline had great results concerning adrenaline levels and so on ...

 

[Hans]

I have tried all of the above except for phosphatidylserine and inosine.

The one time I tried pregnenolone, I took roughly 15mg as I get panic/hypochondria when trying new things so I start low and slow. It was a Vitamin Shoppe product so maybe not the best quality. I noticed a slight countering of the stress response during the day but at night I got vivid nightmares, which is abnormal for me.

Taurine and glycine are the only substances that stand out as working well for me. Used together they give me great energy/positivity/higher temperatures like nothing I have experienced.

I have used theanine alone to stop mounting anxiety before it turns into panic but it seems to be hit or miss.

So your symptoms are mainly anxiety and panic? And not the other symptoms of elevated adrenaline such as weight loss, sweating, high blood pressure, rapid heart beat, etc?
It could be excess glutamate. Have you tried some vitamin B6? It's needed to convert glutamate to GABA.
You can also include a test for catecholamines as well.
If you say glycine and taurine work well, do you use it consistently to prevent the anxiety?

Lastly, what is triggering the anxiety for you most of the time? Is it specific foods or if you haven't eaten in a while?

 

[Hans]

If I eat tomato sauce on a particularly sensitive day, it can give me almost an out of body experience. Like I'm in a trance of extreme brain fog. I have heard Ray mention some people are so sensitive to seretonin that tomato products can induce pronounced effects.

Are you sensitive to the nightshade family?

 

[Hans]

Rhodiola is good for anxiety? I have tried it once like a year ago and it caused the opposite of calmness.
Vitamin C is a cofactor for Noradrenaline and for Tyrosine into L-Dopa, this can be used for anxiety?

Rhodiola is usually used for stress and anxiety yes. The Effects of Rhodiola rosea L. Extract on Anxiety, Stress, Cognition and Other Mood Symptoms. - PubMed - NCBI

Vitamin C lowers cortisol and adrenaline in this study. Vitamin C supplementation attenuates the increases in circulating cortisol, adrenaline and anti-inflammatory polypeptides following ultramarathon run... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[2ManyHistamines]

So your symptoms are mainly anxiety and panic? And not the other symptoms of elevated adrenaline such as weight loss, sweating, high blood pressure, rapid heart beat, etc?
It could be excess glutamate. Have you tried some vitamin B6? It's needed to convert glutamate to GABA.
You can also include a test for catecholamines as well.
If you say glycine and taurine work well, do you use it consistently to prevent the anxiety?

Lastly, what is triggering the anxiety for you most of the time? Is it specific foods or if you haven't eaten in a while?

Main symptoms are generalized anxiety/panic attacks/hypochondria/headaches/feeling of labored breathing (no relaxed breaths)/sinuses feel full/seasonal allergies

No weight loss issues, and I rarely sweat. I do have high blood pressure, and have had high blood pressure before the panic disorder started. Doc's wanted me on blood pressure meds since I was 18, I refused.

Rapid Heart beat happens during panic attacks and was a big trigger for increasing the panic cascade after I was hospitalized at 18 for Myocarditis. I used to fear my heart would explode or stop because of the Myocarditis, I have since gotten over that fear, out of sight out of mind. Less commonly, I will get an acute tachycardia that lasts for a few seconds. This happens mostly at night when I am trying to sleep. I will wake from sleep seldomly with tachycardia and a feeling like the life is being sucked out of me. I typically hold my breath for a few seconds and this goes away.

I do have an issue with glutamate, I have taken P-5-P but never isolated b6. I think this is worth a shot because even the tiniest dose (.25mg) of Alprazolam will stop 80% of panic attacks after about half an hour. Extreme panic states may require up to .75mg. I feel extreme relief from the increased GABA. Any more than .75mg Alprazolam will have opposite effects and actually induce anxiety. Do you know if P-5-P is better/worse than B6 at conversion of glutamate to GABA? I have some P-5-P in the cabinet.

I am slacking on glycine/taurine lately. Things got busy and I fell off from my home made bone broth ritual with my pressure cooker that seems to keep glutamate very low. I recently switched to creatine as I read my taurine levels may be saturated after months of supplementation. I had oxtail soup last night and I think the glutamine kicked my butt. I went to sleep with a headache and woke up with one despite taking 2 aspirin in the form of alka seltzer.

I will add catecholamines to my test regimen.

I am prone to anxiety/panic due to low blood sugar. I try to eat every 4 hours and 20 minutes at the most. Specific foods can certainly do it as well, but not all the time.
I think the histamine bucket analogy explains this. The bucket can fill to a certain point with no/low symptoms, but once overflowed the reactions can be moderate to severe negativity/anxiety/or outright panic. Very rarely, things can get so extreme when I lay down for bed I will hear whispers "in my head" of someone calling my name or perhaps the name of someone else.

The panic disorder started long before any perceived sensitivity to foods, interestingly. As of now, diet and panic seem intertwined. Perhaps it is just increasing degeneration beginning and ending with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.

I was always a nervous kid, who developed into an aggressive/anxious teen. Panic disorder is a whole new world compared to just having nervous tendencies though.
Panic disorder is a paradigm shattering alteration to one's existence/consciousness. At least that has been the case for me.

 

[2ManyHistamines]

Are you sensitive to the nightshade family?

Generally yes, with potatoes being the least greatest offender. Waxy potatoes seem well tolerated but white potatoes seem to cause problems. Peppers and tomatoes are a sure way to induce symptoms. White rice is the safest starch for me. I try not to do too much white bread but it digests just as good as white rice.

 

[2ManyHistamines]

You might be a candidate for lidocaine , @Adrenaline had great results concerning adrenaline levels and so on ...

lidocaine just popped up on my radar last week. Have been looking for best source. Thanks

 

[Mauritio]

lidocaine just popped up on my radar last week. Have been looking for best source. Thanks

Its potent.
Start with a very low dose 1-2mg . Especially you since I suspect you too might have poor glycogen storage .

 

[2ManyHistamines]

Its potent.
Start with a very low dose 1-2mg . Especially you since I suspect you too might have poor glycogen storage .

 

[Hans]

Do you know if P-5-P is better/worse than B6 at conversion of glutamate to GABA? I have some P-5-P in the cabinet.

It depends if it gets absorbed whole in the gut. Riboflavin-5-phosphate breaks down in the gut and you just absorb mainly plain riboflavin, so it might be the same with the P5P. But people do respond differently between the two so you might just have to take it and see if it helps.

I am prone to anxiety/panic due to low blood sugar. I try to eat every 4 hours and 20 minutes at the most. Specific foods can certainly do it as well, but not all the time.
I think the histamine bucket analogy explains this. The bucket can fill to a certain point with no/low symptoms, but once overflowed the reactions can be moderate to severe negativity/anxiety/or outright panic. Very rarely, things can get so extreme when I lay down for bed I will hear whispers "in my head" of someone calling my name or perhaps the name of someone else.

That very rare symptoms are similar to schizophrenia (I'm sure you don't have it) and histamine is dysregulated in schizophrenia. Abram Hoffer used niacin/niacinamide to "fix" people with mental disorders. I think his starting dose was around 3g daily (it was highly individualized) and then he'd also add vitamin C. Have you tried niacinamide?

 

[2ManyHistamines]

Have you tried niacinamide?

I have taken niacinamide intermittently for the last 3 years. Only once did it stand out as doing anything. To be fair, I probably don't take enough most of the time as I
guesstimate the dose as it is a bulk powder.

Two weeks ago I was highly stressed and mildly hyperventilating. I took roughly a gram and sat down. Within 10 minutes I had fallen asleep! Very peculiar to go from high stress straight to a relaxing nap. When I awoke, my breathing was much calmer than normal and my feet were warm, which is unusual for me. Typically my feet are cold about half the day, if not all day. I wish it worked like that all the time.

I just heard @haidut on a youtube video say that Niacinamide can induce this state of relaxed breathing, but Methylene Blue would be the first to try.

I'd like to try Methylene Blue but I already have high blood pressure and my seretonin is likely dangerously high.

I will give the 3 gram/day protocol an honest run and see what happens.

I have some Quali-C vit C, Scottish/Dutch made ascorbic acid on hand too.