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Testosterone Without Ester Great Results

  1. Currently there is a big trend in the TRT community to use Testosterone cream without Ester (scrotal application).

    People who never could make TRT with injections work suddenly experiencing great results.

    Some think it's because of higher DHT levels people experience while using creams, though giving additional DHT (masteron, proviron) while taking injections doesn't lead to the same results.

    It got me thinking, that the actual problem with injectable Testosterone / TRT could be the ester. I get competly different results on TRT based on which Ester I use.

    I know in theory the ester should do nothing else but extend the release of the hormone, but in real life this doesn't seem to hold any truth.

    I get the best results with Propionate. From there on it only gets worse the longer the half-life is, even with the same daily injection schedule.

    So I started taking Testosterone Base ( T without ester in Oil) subcutaneous. I haven't felt this upbeat and full of energy for a long time. Sex drive is insane.

    Still early and playing around with the injection frequency. My thought is, that subq absorption is slower than IM and the half life can be stretched a bit (Test Base half life is around 2-3 hours). Daily / twice daily subq or even oral application could be enough to get through the day.
     
  2. Where did you buy it?
     
  3. What size needle are you using?
     
  4. Dr. Peat's ideas are to take the lowest amount of something in the least harmful way possible. This seems directly opposite, but I do appreciate the sharing and the ideas, so thank you for that!
     
  5. How are you dosing this? Have you tried oral/sublingual yet?
     
  6. 33 dollars for 100 mg of T. Wow that's expensive..
     
  7. Haidut recently posted about the safety and effectiveness of base (unesterfied) Testosterone, and noted that it was largely safe and effective, even in larger doses, with far fewer side effects-

    Oral free/base (unesterified) testosterone is more effective and safer than synthetic AAS – To Extract Knowledge from Matter
     
  8. Can anyone testify to the quality or purity of this product? Has it had a 3rd party analysis? Maybe @haidut would know the best products out there currently?
     
  9. Test base powder is affordable from a compounding pharmacy, it would be a couple dollars a day for the big oral dose. I am considerig it because I am sick of needles and having to sterilize etc and travelling with pins. Would be much simpler to pop a capsule in the morning.
     
  10. It is a scheduled pharmaceutical product. Steroids aren't like grey market prescription drugs in america iirc, you can get in big trouble with DEA for selling them outside of medical setting / pharmacy prescription, it is way less risky to sell not for human use vitamins and dhea and non AAS steroids like he does. America has obsession with prosecuting steroid suppliers ever since big sports scandals.
     
  11. Would small oral doses like 5-10 mg be bio available or how much are you getting from a n oral dose of base testosterone
     
  12. I've read somewhere that some people are not even injecting test base and still getting great results. They are using test base powder and absorbing through the skin using DMSO. Something like 70% absorption rate.
     
  13. Yeah after I worked that out myself I don’t think it’s worth it.

    I need to find out why haidut thinks esters are bad, unless anyone knows here.
     
  14. Based on studies I've seen intranasal administration is about as effective as injections and practical if one is using lower doses - it's also around 40x more potent than oral route (based on the studies haidut referenced in his blog post).
     
  15. If I used T it will be non esterified 3 mg or so a day, topical.

    I think people take crazy amounts, just crazy, and are lunatics to do it.
     
  16. I am using testosterone no ester on my scrotum, and having great results.

    I have a cream from a compounding pharmacy, and a solution I made myself with DMSO + test no ester.

    The only annoying part is you have to apply twice a day for stable levels, so I am considering switching to propionate + DMSO. Not sure how propionate ester would absorb transdermally though
     
  17. so using transdermal in test in different esters will still work in regards to frequency?
    For instance prop every other day, e 7-10 days I think and son on, for some reason I had in my head whatever Ester used still needed to be everyday when used transdermal.
     
  18. No idea, maybe @haidut would know
     
  19. how many mg are you applying each time?
     
  20. Creams on scrotum are a totally different ball game. I’ve heard way better success from people switching from injections to scrotum cream. However it’s a waist of time on your arm as the dosage isn’t enough to absorb there. And more dht is always good in a healthy man.
     
  21. It's 1000mg. 100mg per ml, and you get 10ml

    Independent lab tests of all big underground steroid brands can be found here Anabolic Lab - Independent Analytical Lab Testing for Anabolic Steroid Harm Reduction. The pharmacom products always haveing excellent results on the testing.

    There are plenty of good brands out there balkan pharma, pharmacom, SP, Sis. Though not all of them are carrying Test Base.

    The danger is in getting fakes from a bad store. On eroids.com you can find rating of stores, if you order from the top rated stores you are pretty safe. Personally had good experience with buy-as.net, steroidify.com and int.basicstero.ws.

    Basicstero is the ecommerce store from pharmacomlabs, buying right from the producer leaves a 0% chance of getting fakes / bad quality.
     
  22. 25mg twice a day on scrotum. That brings in my blood 350mg of test a week that is fully absorbed
     
  23. You can also make your own by buying raws from Purple Panda Labs and mixing it with DMSO, that way you skip the debilitating PIP of TNE injection
     
  24. If you haven't already somewhere, could your details the results you are having with that protocol? Will the scrotal application prevent estrogenic side effects?
     
  25. The insane DHT boost from this method seems to be preventing estrogenic effect.
    No gyno whatsoever on that dose.

    So far I have experienced:
    - muscle fullness
    - decrease in anxiety
    - increased libido
    - joints feeling lubricated
    - easy workouts and great pump

    - headaches
    - lighter sleep

    Keep in mind I had very low estrogen levels before starting, so this could all just be due to e2 normalizing
     
  26. Can this be applied before bed after showering?
     
  27. Anyone try oral TNE powder? The dose would be much higher to get same blood levels. Being able to do TRT hormones all orally would be a huge benefit. I don't want to do injections of test cyp anymore, it really gets old fast.

    I think making an oil and taking it via dropper orally might be good.
     
  28. 350mg is a big dose, that was the size of my first injectable test cyp cycle. That wouldn't be safe to take long term. Plus it would be really noticeable, it wouldn't just be "oh i feel better", you would know you are on a cycle basically. You will put on muscle without even training at that dose, the study I saw showed sedentary 350mg or 500mg put on more muscle than natural trainees over same amount of time.

    What is your BP? Your rbc will get high on that dose over time as well. It is great you have no e2 sides though, you basically avoided 3/4 the battle on testosterone cycles. 175mg would still be a big dose, 70mg-100mg over 7 days is more like what replacement is for a normal person looking to feel better and have good health. If I were to start a new cycle from novice experience on gear, I would just do 250mg for 8-10 weeks. People on forums take way too much gear.

    Are you taking other steroids like dhea and preg
     
  29. Probably better to do it upon waking to match normal rythms, but i am assuming it starts absorbing pretty quickly, shortly after application.
     
  30. That's the dose I feel optimized at, I don't buy the whole trend of putting people in boxes. The box of trt if you are under 250, the box of cycle if you are above...
    You have to understand the pharmacokinetics of transdermal test are very different from the ones of injection, and that implies different RBC, BP and e2 evolution.
    So you might not run into these common issues that arise with injections even with high doses transdermals.
     
  31. You're then back to the issue of the liver processing it

    Oral Testosterone Coming To America
     
  32. Plenty of substances are more effectively processed by the liver over time and then you reach a place where the rate has found homeostasis. You could make up for the initial spike by tapering up to your desired constant dose over 4 weeks. Not having to rub creams or take injections would be a plus.
     
  33. Well, have you had blood work to measure your hormones? You didn't post any of your markers or your BP so I don't know, but my assumptions are based on past evidence.

    I never said 250mg and low is TRT, I said TRT is more often than not 70-100mg a week. The common notion is 7mg per day is an average healthy grown male's natural T production. Your dose is apparently 5-7x that depending on absorption. You also did not answer if you are taking other hormones.
    Basing it on what I know, 350mg with 70%+ absorption is a high dose. I don't even agree with a friend of mine taking 250mg test cyp per week indefinately, I reccomended him 140mg for general health, out of conservatism, and to satisfy his urge to use gear and have a little more than natural muscle.

    Even taking into account modified effect from transdermal daily use, there are other health effects of high androgen/hormone levels like neurotoxicity and blood vessel damage. I am willing to learn but based on my current knowledge I don't think it is a good idea, and you haven't really elucidated why it would be safe just because you have lower e2 conversion. That is just one, albeit, big factor. It is better to be safe than sorry. In any case, I would like to see more information. I am willing to be proven wrong. Maybe if you concede this is a less risky way of getting your steroid fix, I could understand it, as I am coming from a perspective of optimizing health and longevity.
     
  34. Neurotoxicity?
    What are you even talking about?
    All studies show testosterone has neuropretective properties, regardless of the dose.
    We are not talking about AAS in general here, just test.

    What's YOUR evidence to demonstrate any dosage above what you "recommend" is unhealthy?
     
  35. There is data comparing neurotoxicity of test and nandrolone and other steroids. At high concentrations testosterone seems to be damaging. Same with blood vessel damage, but other steroids are much worse and it depends on dose. You can search these studies on pubmed using relevant keywords, and they are referenced on ergo-log with accompanying article discussing the conclusions.

    I have asked questions of you regarding blood markers etc and you haven't responded, instead choosing to tell me I am wrong without much reason to go by, and implying these doses you take are safe, and then telling me I need to show evidence it is not damaging. You are taking supraphysiological doses of anabolic hormone. I am trying to learn more, but you haven't shown any bloodwork or personal data of any sort. You also selectively answer my queries. You think the onus is on me to prove you to supraphysiological doses of an anabolic steroid is safe, when you are the one taking them. With what you have implied, essentially, is claiming testosterone is safe at any dose if e2 is kept in check. That seems unreasonable. I am more conservative in aIt pproach to health and that is why I want you to prove it is safe or accept it isn't and add a disclaimer to your posts where you, in essence, tacitly reccomend it.
     
  36. Sorry, not much time to be on here, I'm enjoying my supraphysiological life ;)
     
  37. So instead of admitting you are not up to speed on the matter, you act cocky and don't address any of my questions or points. You are just one of many self deluded people taking steroids then getting butthurt when told it probably isn't very healthy or smart. What kind of cope train is this? The dumbest part is my queries are just as much your interests as my curiosity. What a waste of time trying to engage you in discussion, but at least I found out your opinions can be discarded. Boomers... boomers never change.
     
  38. You should try AAS, it will probably take away that bitterness of yours ;)

    I am not even joking, it's really good for being upbeat and less anal about things in general
     
  39. I told you in my first reply I took your current dose as my first cycle. You refuse to engage in any kind of decent discussion and based on the snark tone, percieved my inquries and reccomendation as combatative to the point you choose to respond like this instead of help others with basic information. All you have told is your dose and how you feel good, and nothing more. You don't even have the decency to properly read and address the points in my post.

    Btw i dont need 350mg test a week just to feel normal. Such a dose goes against the spirit of ray's information and your inability to discuss the subject is inane. Assuming I need to take gear just because you find it hard to comprehend or discuss the subject is pretty stupid.

    I would say, instead of projecting your own inadequacies on the tone of my posts, maybe think about how little you offer in the way of meaningful information to other users here. I have insulated myself from your kind of stupidity in my own life, so when I encounter it online and without warning, it is peculiarly jarring. I should have known better anyways, coming from a guy with a boomer-tier homoerotic avatar. I have added you to ignore so I don't have to inadverdently read your worthless posts anymore.
     
  40. Just letting everyone know there is a possibility to feel better with test, that's all I'm reporting. I don't have to discuss the ins and outs of it.

    And wait...you actually don't know who Tom Selleck is?
     
  41. Hey @sebastian_r any way to contact you? Your PM function seems to be disabled
     
  42. Had to stop Test base in DMSO. After a couple of months on it, I noticed facial bloating and cold extremities. Anyone else get this affect?
    Also, my hair loss became noticeable again. Since stopping T, I switched to 6 keto-P4 and have been feeling better.
     
  43. After months?
    Facial bloating becomes noticeable after 24h for me
     
  44. Did not just start but it got to a point where the effect was enough for me to stop it.
     
  45. yeah @sebastian_r the pharmacom test base is a good one.

    got the one in water. Using it sometimes after very hard training sessions, or the day after for recovery.

    currently on TPP around 150mg-200mg / week, 10mg D-bol / day. But sometimes throwing the T Base in there. Great effects :)
     
  46. Which ones are you getting (besides gainz)?
     
  47. Quicker recovery, libido boost, mental energy boost
     
  48. Anyone know what the facial bloat is indicitive of? Is there a way to mitigate it? I get this very quickly after Tbase DMSO topical. It's annoying because I look like a weigh about 30 stone so it's a no go if I intend to leave the house, lol. Strange I always thought it was high estrogen/cortisol.