Testosterone Suppression From Low Dose DHT?

[Ron J]

Hello
So from what I've read here, it seems like 25mg is the highest you can go, but 10-15mg is recommended as the maximum dosage. But there are comments about suppression from long term use of sub 10mg, or even 5mg. How can I tell if there has been some suppression without blood work? If my testicles don't shrink in size, does that mean no suppression?

 

[alex00]

I was asking myself the same thing even with 2-3 mg of dht would be sufficent. on the site some say that a dose like this would even raise endogenous hormones instead of suppressing. @haidut says that in a dose 2-3 mg does not suppress.
someone can answer thank you.

 

[ddjd]

Wouldn't low libido be the obvious sign

 

[RisingSun]

It would potentially suppress your testosterone.

What it is CERTAINLY going to do is suppress you estrogen to a point you will feel your worst

 

[goodandevil]

I think blood tests are very important on any sort of downstream androgen supplementation. Danwhich has a list of cheap tests, accesible from his site toxinless.com.

 

[KyleKingsly]

I think the real question is whether it would suppress DHT, not T in the long run. My bet is that it's better to use stuff like pine pollen rather than DHT just to be safe, but I'm not too sure.

 

[RisingSun]

I think the real question is whether it would suppress DHT, not T in the long run. My bet is that it's better to use stuff like pine pollen rather than DHT just to be safe, but I'm not too sure.

DHT promotes its own synthesis. It’s a positive feedback loop, even when introduced exogenously.

Haidut has written about it.

So the sole risk is suppressing T, not DHT

 

[alex00]

DHT promotes its own synthesis in what doses?
and does not suppress endogenous production of T in the long run?

 

[KyleKingsly]

DHT promotes its own synthesis. It’s a positive feedback loop, even when introduced exogenously.

Haidut has written about it.

So the sole risk is suppressing T, not DHT

Gotcha, I thought that that might be the case but I just wanted to verify that. So if DHT is T's bigger brother, what's the problem with suppressing T? DHT is what really matters, right?

 

[vulture]

Wouldn't low libido be the obvious sign

Not necessarily. DHT might keep libido up "replacing" T role.

I have used 11-Keto DHT on foreskin, 2 mg every day, noticing positive effects on libido. If it works with a very low dose, I wouldn't go up. Of course, DHT in DMSO applied to foreskin might require lower dosage than oral mesterolone

 

[vulture]

Gotcha, I thought that that might be the case but I just wanted to verify that. So if DHT is T's bigger brother, what's the problem with suppressing T? DHT is what really matters, right?

I saw a study of 2 years mesterolone daily (25 or 50 mg) on old men, T was suppressed but it didn't seem to matter, they even got leaner bodies. But there wasn't any bad reference to their lifestyle.
There are some studies that points no suppression. I think cycling 5 or 10 mg of mesterolone might be my safe bet to start as long as T supression is concerned. And 1 or 2 mg on foreskin

 

[Baltazar]

T suppression
How did you know ?

 

[RisingSun]

Gotcha, I thought that that might be the case but I just wanted to verify that. So if DHT is T's bigger brother, what's the problem with suppressing T? DHT is what really matters, right?

"What really matters" for what?

Testosterone is involved in hundreds of body functions that DHT will never fulfill if your T is suppressed

 

[RisingSun]

I saw a study of 2 years mesterolone daily (25 or 50 mg) on old men, T was suppressed but it didn't seem to matter, they even got leaner bodies. But there wasn't any bad reference to their lifestyle.
There are some studies that points no suppression. I think cycling 5 or 10 mg of mesterolone might be my safe bet to start as long as T supression is concerned. And 1 or 2 mg on foreskin

T suppression during Mesterolone supplementation is not the issue, as it's at worst depressed by 50%.

The issue is the E2 suppression that will wreck havoc on your joints, mood and organs if you supplement with Mesterolone without adding T to the cocktail.

I am an endocrinologist who has experimented a lot with male hormone replacement therapy on my clients.

 

[Baltazar]

Rising sun is so right

Without estradiol

We re not even alive

We need some of everything

Thanks risingsun for your opinion

 

[benaoao]

T suppression during Mesterolone supplementation is not the issue, as it's at worst depressed by 50%.

The issue is the E2 suppression that will wreck havoc on your joints, mood and organs if you supplement with Mesterolone without adding T to the cocktail.

I am an endocrinologist who has experimented a lot with male hormone replacement therapy on my clients.

Wondering whether that stands true for other non aromatizable oral steroids. Assuming low doses, much lower than bodybuilding doses of course.

 

[RisingSun]

Wondering whether that stands true for other non aromatizable oral steroids. Assuming low doses, much lower than bodybuilding doses of course.

Play with the dosage, draw bloods, repeat.

And don't assume serum or free estradiol levels will be representative of tissue activity, as Mesterolone acts more on tissue binding of E2 rather than deactivation of the aromatase enzyme.

 

[vulture]

T suppression during Mesterolone supplementation is not the issue, as it's at worst depressed by 50%.

The issue is the E2 suppression that will wreck havoc on your joints, mood and organs if you supplement with Mesterolone without adding T to the cocktail.

I am an endocrinologist who has experimented a lot with male hormone replacement therapy on my clients.

Hi. Thanks for your insight.
In this study there's no mention to such secundary effects on subjects, nor does it seem a bad idea to get have high DHT that supresses T or E2, ofcourse, it was 2 years long...but shouldn't symptoms at least start to arise in that study?
https://www.researchgate.net/public...Disease_A_Randomized_Placebo-Controlled_Trial

 

[alex00]

Play with the dosage, draw bloods, repeat.

And don't assume serum or free estradiol levels will be representative of tissue activity, as Mesterolone acts more on tissue binding of E2 rather than deactivation of the aromatase enzyme.

Do you think that 2 mg of daily DHT could be raise the endogenous androgens without suppress the HPGA? Or since it is an exogenous androgen even if in a low dosage like 2 mg it will still suppress its own endogenous production?
Thanks

 

[vulture]

T suppression during Mesterolone supplementation is not the issue, as it's at worst depressed by 50%.

The issue is the E2 suppression that will wreck havoc on your joints, mood and organs if you supplement with Mesterolone without adding T to the cocktail.

I am an endocrinologist who has experimented a lot with male hormone replacement therapy on my clients.

BTW, on your experience, orally and topically, what would be a safe starting dosage to experiment with mesterolone, andractim or whatever thing you use? I mean, there must be a dosage that most of the human males doesn't get T supression on it...
You said DHT works more on competing with tissue binding vs estrogen than avoiding aromatization. What happens with all the estrogen that starts getting progressively unbound it just keeps wandering on serum?
I think we may find something interesting in this:
"Comparing the DHT group with the DHT + E2 group, an additional stimulatory effect of normal or slightly elevated estrogens on the prostate cannot be found in the presence of highly supraphysiological DHT levels."
Estradiol and high-dose dihydrotestosterone treatment causes changes in cynomolgus monkey prostate volume and histology identical to those caused b... - PubMed - NCBI

Thanks :)