Testosterone Supplementation Help

[prince baka]

Due to sudden medical issues trt is a must for me.

I am currently taking the normal Jatenzo, aka testosterone undecanoate, oral trt dose of 237 mg twice a day. Been on it for 2 weeeks and have had itchy scalp, headache, hard to sleep, irritability, and noticing hair coming out more often, but hard to quantify these things really. My Dr is also trying to get me finasteride to combat hair loss but I am not very interested in that after reading here and elsewhere. Looks like most of the 237 mg is made up of borage and castor oil, which I know are PUFA... what is good to mitigate those PUFA effects? Is it possible to agitate to your Dr to get pure base test in saturated fat somehow?? or like, purchase things online from China is the only way?

This was all quite sudden so I am beihnd on researching everything. Are there differences in delivery mechanisms and forms of trt re: hair loss especially? if hair loss, gyno, acne etc occur should I treat it seriously as if it is a sign of a more significant health concern? feeling a bit lost


Going through Danny Roddy's content now and More Plates More Dates. the latter is more into the pharmacological solutions, which doesn't sit as well with me, and probably not this community either. he recommends Nizoral 1% or 2%, Castor oil, RU58841, and Finasteride 1 mg

thanks in advance

 

[Hans]

The PUFAs are definitely an issue and it's best to find another solution, but that can be hard.
The testosterone could also be converting to estrogen, and estrogen is increasing prolactin and serotonin, which is causing the scalp issues and shedding. Perhaps you can get CRP, estrogen and prolactin tested. Inflammation and insulin resistance further enhance the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.
Pharma AIs also have some side effects, so something more natural, such as androsterone (from Idealabs) and fat soluble vitamins are safer aromatase inhibitors.
Finasteride is definitely not the solution and has many side effects that can be very difficult to recover from.

 

[prince baka]

i picked the pill almost randomly before really looking into anything. i could switch to injections or an epi-pen type. i think those do not have the pufa issues but they may have other issues.

so it isnt the conversion to dht that's the problem as much as conversion to estrogen? then the idea is to have diet low in inflammation and insulin resistance? what fat soluble vitamins are you thinking?

 

[ecstatichamster]

so I know a guy who puts 1mg of T on his scrotum every day. He's in his 80s and he has very good libido and erections. I think he has the right idea. I can't imagine taking hundreds of mg of T. Just nuts IMHO.

 

[prince baka]

so I know a guy who puts 1mg of T on his scrotum every day. He's in his 80s and he has very good libido and erections. I think he has the right idea. I can't imagine taking hundreds of mg of T. Just nuts IMHO.

I tend to agreee

I am 36 and quite active, so maybe would need a bit more, but I agree with your general point just on my own instinct. Where does he get it? Prescribed from a Dr? Also, is the proof in the pudding of the bloodwork rather than wht you are ingesting/injecting/applying topically regardless of how much it might be?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I tend to agreee

I am 36 and quite active, so maybe would need a bit more, but I agree with your general point just on my own instinct. Where does he get it? Prescribed from a Dr? Also, is the proof in the pudding of the bloodwork rather than wht you are ingesting/injecting/applying topically regardless of how much it might be?

you can use Androgel. He gets it from a compounding pharmacy and his bloodwork shows good healthy T levels.

 

[tallglass13]

I really think that dosage is much much too high ....
A male only makes 3 to 7 mg a day. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to take 237 mg daily. Not only is a lot of that converting to estrogen and DHT, you're shutting your HPA axis down.
This is not up for debate, and since knowing this a few years now it should almost become commonknowledge since Ray Peat has said it and Roger Mason has said it, that a male only makes between 3 and 7 mg. Any more than that you're risking shutdown and going into estrogen, causing hair loss and all the irritability you're talking about. Buy yourself either test base or test enanthate and dilute it with olive oil or DMSO and use it sublingually or topically.

 

[prince baka]

I really think that dosage is much much too high ....
A male only makes 3 to 7 mg a day. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to take 237 mg daily. Not only is a lot of that converting to estrogen and DHT, you're shutting your HPA axis down.
This is not up for debate, and since knowing this a few years now it should almost become commonknowledge since Ray Peat has said it and Roger Mason has said it, that a male only makes between 3 and 7 mg. Any more than that you're risking shutdown and going into estrogen, causing hair loss and all the irritability you're talking about. Buy yourself either test base or test enanthate and dilute it with olive oil or DMSO and use it sublingually or topically.

its actually 237 mg capsule twice a day lol so even more

but i believe most is not actually test. i have done some searching and could not find what is the actual amont of testosterone in it. i will call the dr tomorrow to see. it is supposedly the normal dose and there are higher than even that that you work up to.

where do I find these things you reference? with simple yandex search??

 

[prince baka]

thank you all, very helpful

 

[Beastmode]

so I know a guy who puts 1mg of T on his scrotum every day. He's in his 80s and he has very good libido and erections. I think he has the right idea. I can't imagine taking hundreds of mg of T. Just nuts IMHO.

I thought you were referring to Peat at first...ha. I do recall him saying he takes a few mg dissolved in vitamin e on his lips. I wonder if he still wrestles the girlfriend now at his age.

 

[Beastmode]

I tend to agreee

I am 36 and quite active, so maybe would need a bit more, but I agree with your general point just on my own instinct. Where does he get it? Prescribed from a Dr? Also, is the proof in the pudding of the bloodwork rather than wht you are ingesting/injecting/applying topically regardless of how much it might be?

Someone your age should consider taking T as the very last resort. If you're doing all the fundamental stuff right, have you considered DHEA? Peat has told me it's much safer in this age range for improving T production.

 

[NoLifeUnSung]

So 500mg of oral test is a ton. Even if the absorption of the undecanoate is less. I'd recommend getting test with no ester attached and only take max 10mg a day at first. Test is incredibly stimulating I find taking more than 20mg in a day from oral Sleep becomes a problem. Luckly Progesterone has saved the day with me and has counter acting those sides.

 

[prince baka]

Someone your age should consider taking T as the very last resort. If you're doing all the fundamental stuff right, have you considered DHEA? Peat has told me it's much safer in this age range for improving T production.

due to medical issues i no longer am making any testosterone so i am a rare case that for sure needs to supplement. i would never consider it otherwise

 

[prince baka]

So 500mg of oral test is a ton. Even if the absorption of the undecanoate is less. I'd recommend getting test with no ester attached and only take max 10mg a day at first. Test is incredibly stimulating I find taking more than 20mg in a day from oral Sleep becomes a problem. Luckly Progesterone has saved the day with me and has counter acting those sides.

what does progesterone do for you? symptomatically and physiologically?

 

[Beastmode]

due to medical issues i no longer am making any testosterone so i am a rare case that for sure needs to supplement. i would never consider it otherwise

Do your thing. I'm also assuming you've thoroughly researched Peat's work, possibly contacted him with your specific issue, etc. Good luck!

What might your specific medical condition that requires this? If you don't mind sharing. If you've posted it already, please link it here.

 

[R J]

I never measured via blood
test but doing the haidut protocol of 10mg pregnenolone 5x plus some k2 mk4 and vitamin e here and there gave me a feeling that was as good or better than TRT injections

 

[R J]

Only ~60% of that 237mg ahould
be testosterone, rest is the ester.

 

[prince baka]

Do your thing. I'm also assuming you've thoroughly researched Peat's work, possibly contacted him with your specific issue, etc. Good luck!

What might your specific medical condition that requires this? If you don't mind sharing. If you've posted it already, please link it here.

bilateral testicular cancer.

decently versed in peatism and diet decently in line but never contacted directly. was kinda thrust into needing to supplement t so had never really considered how to do it if absolutely necessary which it now is. may need to make a second thread b/c i am also thinking of getting a round of carboplatin (chemo) and trying to find a way to use nutrition to mitigate ill effects of it

 

[prince baka]

so I know a guy who puts 1mg of T on his scrotum every day. He's in his 80s and he has very good libido and erections. I think he has the right idea. I can't imagine taking hundreds of mg of T. Just nuts IMHO.

do you know why scrotum specifically? because absorption is greater? everything i can search about androgel applied to the scrotum says don't do it but the info why not is slim. do you happen to know why it isn't common and the shoulder is?

 

[ecstatichamster]

do you know why scrotum specifically? because absorption is greater? everything i can search about androgel applied to the scrotum says don't do it but the info why not is slim. do you happen to know why it isn't common and the shoulder is?

As I said, the T he is using -- I know it's 1mg a day but I think he may get it from a compounding pharmacy. In any event, why not put it on the scrotum? There are excellent studies showing the advantages.

Transdermal Delivery of Testosterone *
We administered testosterone transdermally to six hypogonadal men by applying a thin flexible polymeric membrane containing testosterone to the scrotum. Each man wore a placebo membrane and three doses (5, 10, and 15 mg) of testosterone-containing membranes for 22 h/day. Each dose was worn for 1 week, and one dose was worn a second week. Blood was sampled frequently for one 22 h period on the seventh day of each treatment period.

After the application of a membrane, the serum testosterone concentration rose rapidly, reached a peak in 2–3 h, and decreased slowly to 60–80% of the peak value by 22 h. The mean (±SE) 22-h average testosterone concentration during the wearing period was dependent on the testosterone content of the membrane (placebo, 135 ± 38 ng/dl; 5 mg, 348 ± 66 ng/dl; 10 mg, 455 ± 77 ng/dl; and 15 mg, 624 ± 65 ng/ dl; P < 0.001, by analysis of variance). When the same dose was worn twice, the mean coefficient of variation was 13.9%. We conclude that the transdermal application of testosterone to hypogonadal men reproducibly raises their serum testosterone concentrations to within the normal range, and that it, therefore, warrants evaluation as a treatment for male hypogonadism.

T supplementation for men is a horrific mess because the amounts are so unphysiological. This 1mg a day method makes so much sense. I believe Dr. Peat has said if he supplemented with T it would be with similar dosages. To me, transdermal on the scrotum makes so much sense.

I would use non-esterified T dissolved in a little vitamin E.