Testosterone Protocol

[michael94]

It's both, estrogen leads to copper accumulation and excess copper opposes zinc which leads to a lot of bad things. Impaired protection against excess iron/heavy metals is a big one, this leads to more oxidative stress -> more estrogen/serotonin. Zinc has a role in a lot of basic processes in the body that generally oppose estrogen as well.

 

[Zachs]

Yes I have definitely seen studies where a Inc supplement boosted test.

 

[supernature]

Perhaps Haidut can chime in as I believe he has a said a testosterone >24 nmol/L and a prolactin <5 ug/L is ideal for libido.

I'm sure there is an upper limit, within the normal physiological range, of how much testosterone is optimal for health.

In regards to DHEA and leanness, I'm not sure what the relationship is with body fatness, but there is a strong (inverse) relationship between testosterone (and DHT) and body fat.

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men | Endocrinology and Metabolism
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2007-0252

Via:

Intermittent Thoughts on Building Muscle: Quantifying "The Big T" - Do Testosterone Increases Within the Physiological Range Really Matter? And How Much is too Much? - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone
SuppVersity - Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone
Intermittent Thoughts: Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) - Bigger, Stronger, Faster or just Balder, Fatter and Unhealthier? - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

So if the lab range is (8.5-29) nmol/L it seems that Test should be at least at 75%, more like at 85% for good libido as you guys say.

As for DHEA and lean body mass idk either, except my DHEAs is at 85% and my Test is at 20% and my body is pretty lean, (however that doesnt make problems with libido) and maybe this one:

DHEA, dehydroepiandrosterone, is the most abundant adrenal steroid hormone in the body. After it is made by the adrenal glands, it travels into cells throughout the body where it is converted into androgens, estrogens and other hormones. These hormones regulate fat and mineral metabolism, endocrine and reproductive function, and energy levels. The amount of each hormone that DHEA converts to depends on an individual’s biochemistry, age, and sex. DHEA levels peak around age 25 and then decline steadily.
Lean Body Mass: Some studies involving men and postmenopausal women suggest that DHEA administration may support a healthy ratio of lean muscle to fat mass - pureencapsulations

 

[Amazoniac]

avoid as much as possible staring HDD's avatar pic, testosterone drops immediately, it's just too cute.

http://www.psych2.phil.uni-erlangen.de/~oschult/humanlab/publications/sws2004hb.pdf

 

[skycop00]

I would also add 10mg if Boron to that list. Very beneficial for T.

 

[Frankdee20]

I would also add 10mg if Boron to that list. Very beneficial for T.

See but a lot of folks on this forum view Boron as Estrogenic, as well as pro T. I guess they site studies whereby 10 mg of Boron boosted E2 as well as T, but then again I only find pro T effects. Anyway, unless you’re eating dried fruits, and raisins, most people barely get the RDA

 

[vulture]

Believe Haidut discussed this elsewhere but I thought it deserved it's own thread along with a few additions.

This does not constitute any recommendations, is merely meant for discussion and to provoke ideas.

Vitamins (Fat Soluble)
-Vitamin A 0-500,000/d as palmitate or acetate
-Vitamin D ? for balance
-Vitamin E 500-1000mg TID as alpha- or mixed- tocopherols
-Vitamin K 15mg TID as Vitamin K2 menaquinone

Vitamins (Water Soluble)
-Vitamin B1 500mg TID as Thiamine HCl
-Vitamin B3 500-2000mg TID as Niacinamide
-Vitamin B6 5-10mg/d as Pyridoxine HCl

Minerals
-Magnesium 500mg/d as Magnesium Bicarbonate
-Zinc 30mg/d as Zinc Gluconate

Amino Acids
-BCAA 3500mg/meal
-Tyrosine or Phenylalanine 1500mg/meal
-Taurine 5000mg TID
-Glycine 1000-2000mg TID (with aspirin)
-Theanine 200-400mg BID (with caffeine)

Other
-Aspirin 325-2000mg TID
-Caffeine 200-400mg BID

Hormones
-Pregnenolone 20+mg/d
-DHEA 5mg TID, ideally with transdermal application
-Thyroid highly individual

Food
-Protein 100-140g/d
-Carb: Protein Ratio 2:1-4:1 depending on calories
-Fat 20% calories from saturated
-Carbs from fruits and well tolerated starches
-Include weekly eggs, shrimp, oysters
-Include daily carrot salad
-Eat regular meals 3-6/d

Rationale, goals, other suggestions
-Provide/optimize substrates for hormone production (Vitamin A, Cholesterol, Thyroid)
-Support metabolism
-Increase dopamine
-Reduce serotonin
-Do NOT block serotonin (with cyproheptadine or odansetron - 5-HT receptors play role in libido)
-Reduce estrogen
-Antagonize estrogen (do NOT use pharmaceutical aromatase inhibitors or SERMs)
-Reduce prolactin (pharmaceutical dopamine agonists may have role)
-Reduce inflammatory feedback inhibition on HPTA
-Avoid supplements with irritating additives
-Avoid other intestinal irritants

I think Aspirin in that list shall be reviewed since we saw studies that show a T drop after about a week of aspirin usage...
BTW, if someone has low LH low FSH low T, are SERMs (like clomid) such a bad idea?
Isn't there a possibility that using a SERM combined with DHT + AI foods could keep estrogen from doing too much harm while LH increases? would that LH fall right after Clomid treatment or it could make a positive feedback loop if diet is right?

Also, I think using Cacao along with foods might be a good way to increase dopamin while reducing prolactin

 

[Koveras]

I think Aspirin in that list shall be reviewed since we saw studies that show a T drop after about a week of aspirin usage...
BTW, if someone has low LH low FSH low T, are SERMs (like clomid) such a bad idea?
Isn't there a possibility that using a SERM combined with DHT + AI foods could keep estrogen from doing too much harm while LH increases? would that LH fall right after Clomid treatment or it could make a positive feedback loop if diet is right?

Also, I think using Cacao along with foods might be a good way to increase dopamin while reducing prolactin

Old post.

High doses of some of those vitamins & minerals might be a bad idea, especially long term.

There are definitely some studies where aspirin inhibits hCG induced testosterone increases ...but that may be through a balance of slightly different pathways then normal LH induced testosterone release. Equivocal results in untreated men as far as I've seen. Maybe it depends on baseline inflammatory status?

Still think SERMs are a bad idea - although enclomifene (still under development) might end being slightly less risky. Has estrogen been tested? From what I recall reading in the past all the changes reverted pretty quickly on stopping SERM treatment.

 

[ddjd]

View: https://x.com/BowTiedUM/status/1750626314187391321?s=20

 

[Osukhan]

View: https://x.com/BowTiedUM/status/1750626314187391321?s=20

interesting
I usually have acetyl l carnitine in my pre workout, never thought to have it a few times a day to get 4-6grams
also havent looked into the difference between acetyl L vs tartarate, or if there is even one

 

[lamassu]

what about a low dose and balanced hormone supplementing approach similar to Ray Peat patented arthritis salve potentially with added T

US4628052A - Pharmaceutical compositions containing dehydroepiandrosterone and other anesthetic steroids in the treatment of arthritis and other joint disabilities - Google Patents

The present invention is concerned with compositions and methods of treating rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, and arthritis associated with psoriasis and with lupus and other auto-immune diseases, and also for treating non-specific joint pain associated with stress or incidental to another...

patents.google.com