Testosterone levels on oral test base

[brix]

I want to get back to taking 20mg test day. Is the large dose of pregnenolone important? anything else I should take along side it?
taurine maybe?

I am finally getting myself to the gym with the goal of muscle building and some fat loss (6'3 195lb).

 

[opethfeldt]

For what reason?
Test base is the cheapest drug there is, even cheaper than most OTC supplements.
What would be their incentive to cheat you with this one?

I sent PPL's Masteron, Proviron and DHT for HPLC testing.
They all came back being what was advertised with 98% purity.

So if the most expensive compounds cleared the test, I would bet test does ...

Multiple people have mentioned not feeling anything from it and at least one person had blood tests indicating it wasn't legit. I'm not sure why you'd discourage someone from testing unless you're a shill for the company.

 

[conrad0602]

Multiple people have mentioned not feeling anything from it and at least one person had blood tests indicating it wasn't legit. I'm not sure why you'd discourage someone from testing unless you're a shill for the company.

His theory is sound and would afford someone the option to save money on testing compounds that might not be worth it ? but if people are reporting it to be bunk it might be worth testing or looking elsewhere.

 

[opethfeldt]

His theory is sound and would afford someone the option to save money on testing compounds that might not be worth it ? but if people are reporting it to be bunk it might be worth testing or looking elsewhere.

The poster in question already bought the test. Why discourage them from using it? Just seems suspicious to me.

 

[golder]

It would actually be nice if he just posted up the lab analysis report whilst blurring/erasing any sensitive information. That would be extremely useful for this whole community...

 

[TheBeard]

Multiple people have mentioned not feeling anything from it and at least one person had blood tests indicating it wasn't legit. I'm not sure why you'd discourage someone from testing unless you're a shill for the company.

By all means, I can even give him the lab address where it's conveniently tested, I have no problem with that.
I'm neither discouraging one nor shilling for the other, simply pointing out the absurdity of testing for a compound that is never faked when raw.
It can be underdosed when sold as a finished product, but almost never faked as a raw.
Also if you are a little familiar with AAS circles, PPL is one of the big dogs.

I tested insanely high on a transdermal made with their test base powder.

Talking about people not feeling anything:
1) some people are not in touch with their body, at all.
2) it could just be that @haidut 's theory that test is orally bioavailable is wrong.

 

[ecstatichamster]

@haidut doesn't say that test is not bioavailable. He has discussed a study where it IS.

As the studies towards the end of the post demonstrate, not only is free/base T orally bioavailable, but even massive doses (400mg daily) have no negative side effects on the liver and in fact accelerates the activity of several liver detox enzymes. The latter effect is highly sought-after by Big Pharma and many drugs are currently being developed/tested with the hope that such a liver-metabolism-enhancing compound will be brought to market as it has tremendous potential for treating everything from obesity, to gyno, to side effects of toxic chemotherapy. Thus, as one of the studies below directly stated, artificial/synthetic T derivatives such as 17a-methylated varieties, 19-nortestosterone derivatives (and in general any other AAS with bizarre modifications to make them less metabolizable and longer acting) have no advantages over free/base T neither due to cost nor effectiveness. In fact, unlike the readily observed liver-toxicity (including liver cancer) from various synthetic AAS, using free/base T may actually cure 60%+ of even advanced cases of liver failure (cirrhosis), as confirmed by extensive human studies several decades ago.

[ON 2 CASES OF ASCITES DUE TO HEPATIC CIRRHOSIS IN SUBJECTS OPERATED ON BY SPLENECTOMY AND PRESENTING PORTA OBLITERATION--CLINICAL RECOVERY FOLLOWING TREATMENT WITH HIGH DOSES OF TESTOSTERONE AND VITAMIN B 1] - PubMed

[Possible clinical cure in a high percentage of cases of liver cirrhosis with a treatment based on high doses of testosterone and vitamin B 1] - PubMed

[THERAPY OF LIVER CIRRHOSIS WITH TESTOSTERONE AND VITAMIN B 1] - PubMed

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00325481.1964.11694984

So, what does that have to do with FDA’s recent T undecanoate approval? Well, according to one of the studies below, that specific T ester only works if it is dissolved in oil AND administered with a large meal containing significant amounts of fat. On the other hand, oral free/base T was absorbed without using any carriers or fatty meals. In addition, androgen esters often have unpredictable effects and in some cases may be even carcinogenic, while the free/base steroid is highly protective. It just so happens that the formulation FDA approved does NOT contain any oils as carrier/solvent and does not carry a recommendation to consume with a significant amount of fat. So, at best the formulation will be ineffective and at worst it may be carcinogenic.

from

Oral free/base (unesterified) testosterone is more effective and safer than synthetic AAS – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

 

[TheBeard]

@haidut doesn't say that test is not bioavailable. He has discussed a study where it IS.



from

Oral free/base (unesterified) testosterone is more effective and safer than synthetic AAS – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

Yes, that's what I'm saying.
His theory is that it works orally.

People not feeling its effects could be because it's not bioavailable and that the theory is wrong.

In the study linked it's not mentioned at all what levels were reached with oral delivery.

 

[AdoTintor]

2) it could just be that @haidut 's theory that test is orally bioavailable is wrong.

Maybe in some people they lower their own production of T as soon as they receive an external source, so no net effect, whereas with eunuchs their natural levels are already zero and cannot be lowered so they get a good effect from external T. But not all the studies @haidut lists are on eunuchs.

 

[Ryan33]

Maybe in some people they lower their own production of T as soon as they receive an external source, so no net effect, whereas with eunuchs their natural levels are already zero and cannot be lowered so they get a good effect from external T. But not all the studies @haidut lists are on eunuchs.

This is why I say 20mg is the lowest you can go doing it orally. For some reason alot on this forum thinks there's an additive effect. There's not. Whatever amount you take your body will adjust to. So you have to take the amount your body makes plus the extra that your trying to get to. As far as I see it 20mg a day is the absolute bare minimum one could take to actually feel a difference. This is where I felt the difference at. And now I'm slowly going up until I find the amount I'm going to stay at

 

[eat my peat]

People not feeling its effects could be because it's not bioavailable and that the theory is wrong.

Also worth noting that the study posted was people taking 100mg orally 4x a day.

So, taking 10mg orally and expecting to feel like HULK is quite a tall order...

 

[TheBeard]

Also worth noting that the study posted was people taking 100mg orally 4x a day.

So, taking 10mg orally and expecting to feel like HULK is quite a tall order...

Exactly.
It's not mentioned anywhere in the study whether 400mg/day was only enough to restore physiological levels or if it led to more.

 

[haidut]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.
His theory is that it works orally.

People not feeling its effects could be because it's not bioavailable and that the theory is wrong.

In the study linked it's not mentioned at all what levels were reached with oral delivery.

So, just like @ecstatichamster said - I simply posted a human study claiming it works. There are multiple studies with humans and oral T actually, not just this one. In addition, FDA already approved an oral form of T called Jatenzo.

JATENZO® (testosterone undecanoate) For Testosterone Replacement

JATENZO® is the #1 FDA approved oral softgel for Testosterone Replacement. JATENZO is made to fit in your day and your hand. See PI, including Boxed Warning.

www.jatenzo.com

Furthermore, Peat has a patent on testosterone in vitamin E and olive oil, and has discussed oral usage of base T with people multiple times. Finally, there are several people in this thread saying oral T base in olive oil works quite well for them, to the point of anything more than 20mg per dose being too much.
So, in light of all this, not much about about oral T working is really "theory" anymore, let alone it being somehow "mine".

A bit of a side note, but still relevant. If it is widely accepted, and proven through studies, that oral pregnenolone (P5) and DHEA are well absorbed and active orally, it makes zero sense for other steroids like T, DHT, etc to somehow be magically ineffective orally. The same claims of first pass metabolism, excretion, etc apply to ALL oral steroids. So, again, if P5 and DHEA are known to work orally then so do T, DHT, etc.
In regards to blood tests - keep in mind that the clinical studies with Jatenzo (above) used the equivalent of 150mg base T twice daily in order to produce serum T levels in the 400s. So, pretty high doses are needed in order to see immediate changes in blood levels. The same peculiarity has been demonstrated with P5 and DHEA. Namely, if you take DHEA in doses below 100mg daily there won't be much change in blood DHEA/DHEA-S for the first 1-3 months, and only then those levels will start rising.

Effect of 1-year, low-dose DHEA therapy on climacteric symptoms and female sexuality - PubMed

Daily oral DHEA therapy at the dose of 10 mg, HRT and tibolone all provided a significant improvement in comparison with vitamin D in sexual function and in frequency of sexual intercourse in early postmenopausal women.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Long-term low-dose dehydroepiandrosterone replacement therapy in aging males with partial androgen deficiency - PubMed

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS) age-related withdrawal is very likely to be involved in the aging process and the onset of age-related diseases, giving rise to the question of whether preventing or compensating the decline of these steroids may have...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That does not mean DHEA is not being absorbed and does not work. If you measure its metabolites, then you see a massive increase and this confirms it is absorbed and works orally.

Physiological changes in dehydroepiandrosterone are not reflected by serum levels of active androgens and estrogens but of their metabolites: intracrinology - PubMed

This study analyzes in detail the serum concentration of the active androgens and estrogens, as well as a series of free and conjugated forms of their precursors and metabolites, after daily application for 2 weeks of 10 mL 20% dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) solution on the skin to avoid first...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Same thing has been observed with P5. Individual doses of 200mg orally produce a very brief elevation in blood tests and then the levels rapidly go back to normal.

Oral pregnenolone as hormone replacement therapy (HRT) in humans

As many of my readers know, the first step in steroid synthesis is the so-called "side-chain cleavage", which converts cholesterol into pregnenolone (P5). That step is known as the rate-limiting step in the steroid cascade, and its function depends on the redox status and ATP levels. In other...

raypeatforum.com

Only when supplementing with doses in the ~500mg range are robust changes seen in blood levels, and even then only after about 4-8 weeks.
Proof-of-Concept Trial with the Neurosteroid Pregnenolone Targeting Cognitive and Negative Symptoms in Schizophrenia (Table 6)

So, if somebody wants to verify that oral T is being absorbed and works even after a few days of usage should either test its metabolites or something like SHBG. The clinical trials with Jatenzo showed a massive and sustained drop in SHBG from even "low" doses oral T(U). Then, after using the lower doses of base T for several weeks, there should be a change in other results such as DHEA-S (drop), T (increase), DHT (increase), etc.

 

[Yucca]

Works perfectly for me, not even need olive oil or anything else than a glass water to swallow it, 1st thing in the morning.

I posted the saliva test to give a proof, and anyone can also test for himself.

I can also say than 20mg is about the same (without any sides) as 120mg (0,5ml) of test enanthate/week, injected, as I used to take this for years a long time ago…

But it’s just me.

ps: current experiment is to stack test+preg+Melatonin+curcuma Longvida in home made suppositorie (with coco oil)…seems to work exactly the same, but much less powders to measure and to pop every day…

 

[haidut]

Works perfectly for me, not even need olive oil or anything else than a glass water to swallow it, 1st thing in the morning.

I posted the saliva test to give a proof, and anyone can also test for himself.

I can also say than 20mg is about the same (without any sides) as 120mg (0,5ml) of test enanthate/week, injected, as I used to take this for years a long time ago…

But it’s just me.

ps: current experiment is to stack test+preg+Melatonin+curcuma Longvida in home made suppositorie (with coco oil)…seems to work exactly the same, but much less powders to measure and to pop every day…

Awesome, thanks for sharing!
Can you please point to the post where you shared the saliva results? I am on a tiny phone so it is hard to sift through all 10 pages of the thread, and it may also be helpful to @TheBeard if he hasn't seen those results either.

 

[Yucca]

TheBeard saw these results, but it seems he doesn’t think it’s possible.

p.7 of this thread :

https://raypeatforum.com/community/attachments/verisana-png.30768/

(average result from 3 different saliva tests taken 30mn from each other at 7:30, 8:00, 8:30, last testosterone dose taken 24h before, nothing eaten for the last 15h, and just a small glass water taken to help salivating)

 

[TheBeard]

So, just like @ecstatichamster said - I simply posted a human study claiming it works. There are multiple studies with humans and oral T actually, not just this one. In addition, FDA already approved an oral form of T called Jatenzo.

JATENZO® (testosterone undecanoate) For Testosterone Replacement

JATENZO® is the #1 FDA approved oral softgel for Testosterone Replacement. JATENZO is made to fit in your day and your hand. See PI, including Boxed Warning.

www.jatenzo.com

Furthermore, Peat has a patent on testosterone in vitamin E and olive oil, and has discussed oral usage of base T with people multiple times. Finally, there are several people in this thread saying oral T base in olive oil works quite well for them, to the point of anything more than 20mg per dose being too much.
So, in light of all this, not much about about oral T working is really "theory" anymore, let alone it being somehow "mine".

A bit of a side note, but still relevant. If it is widely accepted, and proven through studies, that oral pregnenolone (P5) and DHEA are well absorbed and active orally, it makes zero sense for other steroids like T, DHT, etc to somehow be magically ineffective orally. The same claims of first pass metabolism, excretion, etc apply to ALL oral steroids. So, again, if P5 and DHEA are known to work orally then so do T, DHT, etc.
In regards to blood tests - keep in mind that the clinical studies with Jatenzo (above) used the equivalent of 150mg base T twice daily in order to produce serum T levels in the 400s. So, pretty high doses are needed in order to see immediate changes in blood levels. The same peculiarity has been demonstrated with P5 and DHEA. Namely, if you take DHEA in doses below 100mg daily there won't be much change in blood DHEA/DHEA-S for the first 1-3 months, and only then those levels will start rising.

Effect of 1-year, low-dose DHEA therapy on climacteric symptoms and female sexuality - PubMed

Daily oral DHEA therapy at the dose of 10 mg, HRT and tibolone all provided a significant improvement in comparison with vitamin D in sexual function and in frequency of sexual intercourse in early postmenopausal women.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Long-term low-dose dehydroepiandrosterone replacement therapy in aging males with partial androgen deficiency - PubMed

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS) age-related withdrawal is very likely to be involved in the aging process and the onset of age-related diseases, giving rise to the question of whether preventing or compensating the decline of these steroids may have...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That does not mean DHEA is not being absorbed and does not work. If you measure its metabolites, then you see a massive increase and this confirms it is absorbed and works orally.

Physiological changes in dehydroepiandrosterone are not reflected by serum levels of active androgens and estrogens but of their metabolites: intracrinology - PubMed

This study analyzes in detail the serum concentration of the active androgens and estrogens, as well as a series of free and conjugated forms of their precursors and metabolites, after daily application for 2 weeks of 10 mL 20% dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) solution on the skin to avoid first...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Same thing has been observed with P5. Individual doses of 200mg orally produce a very brief elevation in blood tests and then the levels rapidly go back to normal.

Oral pregnenolone as hormone replacement therapy (HRT) in humans

As many of my readers know, the first step in steroid synthesis is the so-called "side-chain cleavage", which converts cholesterol into pregnenolone (P5). That step is known as the rate-limiting step in the steroid cascade, and its function depends on the redox status and ATP levels. In other...

raypeatforum.com

Only when supplementing with doses in the ~500mg range are robust changes seen in blood levels, and even then only after about 4-8 weeks.
Proof-of-Concept Trial with the Neurosteroid Pregnenolone Targeting Cognitive and Negative Symptoms in Schizophrenia (Table 6)

So, if somebody wants to verify that oral T is being absorbed and works even after a few days of usage should either test its metabolites or something like SHBG. The clinical trials with Jatenzo showed a massive and sustained drop in SHBG from even "low" doses oral T(U). Then, after using the lower doses of base T for several weeks, there should be a change in other results such as DHEA-S (drop), T (increase), DHT (increase), etc.

I agree it's highly absurd to think that dhea and pregnenolone may be readily absorbed and testosterone cannot.
But given my n=1 experience of popping 600mg/day and only feeling irritability and none of the positive changes I see with transdermal testosterone, I would assume it peaks extremely rapidly and falls down quick.
I would also assume that 20mg once a day can't put you in twice the top of the range 24h after.

I guess my only choice is to test my blood levels at 600mg/day and report, until then it's just "I think".

I would also assume that test base needs only a few days to peak in blood as it has no ester, not weeks.
When I apply test base transdermally I need only 48h for levels to peak.

 

[Yucca]

Maybe do we metabolize some molecules on a different way ?
You or I may have some enzymes that the other do not have…

I tried also oral cardarine, as some have great results with it for endurance and fatloss, and get absolutely nothing from it (tried 3 times, up to 50mg/d, which is very high for this one). Or it’s maybe a question of androgenic receptors.

…tried also your DHT, and didn’t feel very good with it, at only 10mg orally : noticeable aggressive feeling, nervousness, but some more visible muscular hardness.

 

[eat my peat]

Peat has a patent on testosterone in vitamin E and olive oil

Damn ... Peat has Progest-T --- The secret sauce. The holy gravy. The freshly squeezed juice.

Where can we get hold of this delicacy? (Excuse my excitement)

 

[Ryan33]

I'm right there with yucca. My only difference is I'm taking 20mg test base in vitamin e with 100mg pregnenolone. Then I rotate tribulus and forskolin. I'm also taking kratom everyday which lowers libido. But ever since starting this protocol my libido is through the roof. I had taken everything else before I started the test base and never had libido like this. Little bit of muscle gain as well. I definitely feel like I'm like I'm taking testosterone. I'll never not take testosterone orally again.