Testimonial For Niacin - It Just Works

[redsun]

@redsun
If I try, should I be concerned with fat gain?
What if I do high dose just once or twice a week? With a nutrient dense diet, do you think that may help maintain niacin levels for better bile/digestion?

I have not experienced any fat gain with niacin. Niacinamide yes, but not niacin. I dont think its a serious concern and will likely not happen. You can try for a short amount of time and see how it goes. The best way to know is personal experimentation. I think the recommended dose is 500mg per meal when trying to treat hypochlorydia and other digestive disorders.

 

[Ron J]

I have not experienced any fat gain with niacin. Niacinamide yes, but not niacin. I dont think its a serious concern and will likely not happen. You can try for a short amount of time and see how it goes. The best way to know is personal experimentation. I think the recommended dose is 500mg per meal when trying to treat hypochlorydia and other digestive disorders.

Alright, thanks.
One more thing: did you experience any change in water retention?

 

[Vinny]

It won't act the same way though I think its still counts as B3. I would look for the regular flush, at least thats what I used and I can personally attest to its effectiveness. Its often called niacin or nicotinic acid.

Thanks

 

[ilhanxx]

Hi guys,

My tg/hdl index around 5. I am in the risk group, I have small chest pain sometimes. Can you advice niacin or statin or orlistat for me to lower triglyceride and bad cholesterol. I dont want to use statin for lower the stereoids.

 

[Inaut]

Niacin and activated charcoal for when high amounts induce flush ?

 

[OceanSpray]

Btw, is no one worried about the potential free fatty acid rebound and liver toxicity issues of vitamin B3? Niacin, heart disease, liver toxicity, and diabetes - Alex Leaf, MS, CISSN

Well, this is a ‘not even two weeks’ success story, so in that context I guess no, no one

 

[BigChad]

I have not experienced any fat gain with niacin. Niacinamide yes, but not niacin. I dont think its a serious concern and will likely not happen. You can try for a short amount of time and see how it goes. The best way to know is personal experimentation. I think the recommended dose is 500mg per meal when trying to treat hypochlorydia and other digestive disorders.

You dont notice side effects from niacin? How long have you been using it. Its interesting you don't notice anything cuz it supposedly lowers thyroid hormones and increases diabetes risk.

Did you ever compare nicotinamide riboside to niacin. Supposed to improve insulin sensitivity, it's interesting

 

[OceanSpray]

Haha I'm pretty sure that was a poke at your username ...


Btw, is no one worried about the potential free fatty acid rebound and liver toxicity issues of vitamin B3? Niacin, heart disease, liver toxicity, and diabetes - Alex Leaf, MS, CISSN

By the way that is an excellent link, that should have been mandatorily attached to the original post, even at the risk of putting the kibosh on the niacin party, especially given people are clearly jumping on these horse doses in hordes.

“The ability of niacin (as nicotinic acid) to reduce heart disease risk comes with a price — a 34% increased risk of developing diabetes”

“Liver toxicity occurs from niacin depleting methyl donors”

 

[BigChad]

By the way that is an excellent link, that should have been mandatorily attached to the original post, even at the risk of putting the kibosh on the niacin party, especially given people are clearly jumping on these horse doses in hordes.

“The ability of niacin (as nicotinic acid) to reduce heart disease risk comes with a price — a 34% increased risk of developing diabetes”

“Liver toxicity occurs from niacin depleting methyl donors”

Niacinamide also depletes methyl donors thus increasing liver toxicity? What about nicotinamide riboside?

 

[jmojo]

By the way that is an excellent link, that should have been mandatorily attached to the original post, even at the risk of putting the kibosh on the niacin party, especially given people are clearly jumping on these horse doses in hordes.

“The ability of niacin (as nicotinic acid) to reduce heart disease risk comes with a price — a 34% increased risk of developing diabetes”

“Liver toxicity occurs from niacin depleting methyl donors”

Yeah I've posted this link many times before on this forum but no one has ever replied to it. You were the first. I'd love for people who are smarter than me to respond to these issues. Haidut has stated before that niacinamide doesn't have the same rebound issues as nicotinic acid but I'm not so sure anymore. It is interesting though that in that article above, Alex Leaf states that the FFA rebound can be eliminated either by timing your eating and eating carb heavy within 2 hours of taking it and waiting 6 hours before eating carb heavy again or else by taking more niacin before eating again. Seems like the Peat advice of taking a low dose of niacinamide before each meal may be ideal if you're going to dabble. The whole liver toxicity via depleting methyl donors is potentially concerning it should be easily mitigated by consuming choline (eggs) or maybe even taking a small supplement of betaine HCL.

 

[BigChad]

Yeah I've posted this link many times before on this forum but no one has ever replied to it. You were the first. I'd love for people who are smarter than me to respond to these issues. Haidut has stated before that niacinamide doesn't have the same rebound issues as nicotinic acid but I'm not so sure anymore. It is interesting though that in that article above, Alex Leaf states that the FFA rebound can be eliminated either by timing your eating and eating carb heavy within 2 hours of taking it and waiting 6 hours before eating carb heavy again or else by taking more niacin before eating again. Seems like the Peat advice of taking a low dose of niacinamide before each meal may be ideal if you're going to dabble. The whole liver toxicity via depleting methyl donors is potentially concerning it should be easily mitigated by consuming choline (eggs) or maybe even taking a small supplement of betaine HCL.

Why betaine hcl? Do you mean betaine trimethylglycine (methyl donor)?
Hcl form is just a stomach acid booster?

Also id imagine if you are taking supra doses of niacinamide, dietary choline intake would not be enough to match it.

 

[BigChad]

@redsun https://www.aboutnad.com/2018/10/25/science-says-b3-vitamins-methylation/

your issues with nicotinamide were maybe due to too much homocysteine production?
"A head-to-head study compared the effects of smaller 300 mg/day doses of niacin and nicotinamide in healthy adults.8 These two B3 vitamins had different effects on blood plasma levels of homocysteine. Nicotinamide significantly increased homocysteine levels while niacin had a much smaller, non-significant effect. Although both molecules decreased blood plasma levels of the methyl donor betaine, nicotinamide had a much stronger effect. These findings reveal that despite being lumped together as B3 vitamins, these molecules do not always have the same effects on our bodies."

looks like nicotinamide is much more powerful in depleting methyl donors. Idk if I'd want to megadose methylated vitamins or take methyl donors just to tolerate niacinamide.

"While there is evidence that niacin and nicotinamide can affect the body’s methyl donor resources, no such evidence has yet been established for nicotinamide riboside. In fact, preclinical models of liver dysfunction16-18 and a recent clinical study9 all point toward nicotinamide riboside’s potential to support rather than harm liver health, which is an important physiological marker for the state of our methyl donor system. As research in this area advances, we expect to learn even more about nicotinamide riboside’s unique effects on our cells and our health."

 

[Peatogenic]

For me it was B2 that began changing things.

 

[Jing]

@redsun do you take the niacin before the meal or after?

 

[redsun]

@redsun do you take the niacin before the meal or after?

After.

 

[Cirion]

Yeah I've posted this link many times before on this forum but no one has ever replied to it. You were the first. I'd love for people who are smarter than me to respond to these issues. Haidut has stated before that niacinamide doesn't have the same rebound issues as nicotinic acid but I'm not so sure anymore. It is interesting though that in that article above, Alex Leaf states that the FFA rebound can be eliminated either by timing your eating and eating carb heavy within 2 hours of taking it and waiting 6 hours before eating carb heavy again or else by taking more niacin before eating again. Seems like the Peat advice of taking a low dose of niacinamide before each meal may be ideal if you're going to dabble. The whole liver toxicity via depleting methyl donors is potentially concerning it should be easily mitigated by consuming choline (eggs) or maybe even taking a small supplement of betaine HCL.

Anything can be dangerous to mega-dose and I'm not too interested to risk it. This right here is why I probably won't be joining this mega-dose "party" myself. I'm content to slowly build up my stores using energin once a day. If it takes me longer so be it.

 

[redsun]

Yeah I've posted this link many times before on this forum but no one has ever replied to it. You were the first. I'd love for people who are smarter than me to respond to these issues. Haidut has stated before that niacinamide doesn't have the same rebound issues as nicotinic acid but I'm not so sure anymore. It is interesting though that in that article above, Alex Leaf states that the FFA rebound can be eliminated either by timing your eating and eating carb heavy within 2 hours of taking it and waiting 6 hours before eating carb heavy again or else by taking more niacin before eating again. Seems like the Peat advice of taking a low dose of niacinamide before each meal may be ideal if you're going to dabble. The whole liver toxicity via depleting methyl donors is potentially concerning it should be easily mitigated by consuming choline (eggs) or maybe even taking a small supplement of betaine HCL.

Because it isn't that easy to deplete methyl donors, depending on your own methylation status. If you are severely overmethylated which is often case in obese or overweight individuals or those with mental disorders who have an overactive sympathetic nervous system its not going to happen with a snap of the finger. Not too mention if one has GI issues, niacin is likely going to help them and no amount of methyl donors can fix digestion and stomach acid. You have to trade this for that. Niacin has to be methylated to be excreted, but you would have to have doses in the grams per day for months on end with low intake of methyl donors(choline and methionine) to cause problems in most people. A niacin deficiency is supposed to remedy in a few months at doses 500mg per meal, beyond that you would not need to keep dosing that much.

If one was worried about losing methyl donors in taking niacin, chris masterjohn recommended a 1 to 1 ratio of betaine to niacin.

Anything can be dangerous to mega-dose and I'm not too interested to risk it. This right here is why I probably won't be joining this mega-dose "party" myself. I'm content to slowly build up my stores using energin once a day. If it takes me longer so be it.

Very unlikely, see my previous response to jmojo. Especially when we are talking about relieving GI issues, any supposed "risk" from higher doses of niacin(500mg/meal) does not even register considering an individual likely has a niacin insufficiency/deficiency which is gravely more important to energy metabolism then methyl donors and assuming one would have adequate intake of choline and methionine a few months of niacin for deficiency isn't going to be much of an issue.

Also, you know energin doesn't have B12 and if you have very terrible digestion especially of proteins which are the source of B12 you likely are not absorbing much if any of the B12 in the small amounts of protein you do consume. That is incredibly worrisome, especially considering B12's integral role for metabolic function. You are more then likely to have low B12 because hypothyroidism means hypochlorydia which means less ability to digest proteins and make B12 available to be absorbed through instrinsic factor.

 

[BigChad]

Because it isn't that easy to deplete methyl donors, depending on your own methylation status. If you are severely overmethylated which is often case in obese or overweight individuals or those with mental disorders who have an overactive sympathetic nervous system its not going to happen with a snap of the finger. Not too mention if one has GI issues, niacin is likely going to help them and no amount of methyl donors can fix digestion and stomach acid. You have to trade this for that. Niacin has to be methylated to be excreted, but you would have to have doses in the grams per day for months on end with low intake of methyl donors(choline and methionine) to cause problems in most people. A niacin deficiency is supposed to remedy in a few months at doses 500mg per meal, beyond that you would not need to keep dosing that much.

If one was worried about losing methyl donors in taking niacin, chris masterjohn recommended a 1 to 1 ratio of betaine to niacin.



Very unlikely, see my previous response to jmojo. Especially when we are talking about relieving GI issues, any supposed "risk" from higher doses of niacin(500mg/meal) does not even register considering an individual likely has a niacin insufficiency/deficiency which is gravely more important to energy metabolism then methyl donors and assuming one would have adequate intake of choline and methionine a few months of niacin for deficiency isn't going to be much of an issue.

niacin is said to lower thyroid hormones. you do not notice this effect from it? hypothyroid symptoms, weight gain? what is your overall diet like.
Also, why do you say obese and overweight people are overmethylated? Wouldn't undermethylation cause weight issues in particular, since undermethylation causes fatigue, poor liver function? People who are overmethylated would have excess energy? Overmethylation would speed up the metabolism or have hyperthyroid like symptoms?

Also do you need choline intake if you are getting lots of methionine (150g+ protein a day from beef and dairy)?
from my understanding methionine needs to go through a conversion process, so choline/methionine may not be enough to counteract niacin/niacinamides effects on methyl group depletion? I think betaine tmg is interchangeable with methylfolate and methylb12 as far as lowering homocysteine. I haven't seen that choline/methionine alone can fill in for methyl group donors.

I think I posted a link earlier which mentioned that niacin has some effect on methyl group depletion, while niacinamide has a much larger effect, and nicotinamide riboside has the least effect. So the fact you are using regular niacin instead of niacinamide could be why you haven't noticed methyl group issues with it. Maybe niacin simply isn't that potent in depleting methyl groups. there still seems to be potential for hypothyroidism from it (though I think it was mentioned thyroid hormones returned to normal after niacin was stopped)

 

[redsun]

niacin is said to lower thyroid hormones. you do not notice this effect from it? hypothyroid symptoms, weight gain? what is your overall diet like.
Also, why do you say obese and overweight people are overmethylated? Wouldn't undermethylation cause weight issues in particular, since undermethylation causes fatigue, poor liver function? People who are overmethylated would have excess energy? Overmethylation would speed up the metabolism or have hyperthyroid like symptoms?

Also do you need choline intake if you are getting lots of methionine (150g+ protein a day from beef and dairy)?
from my understanding methionine needs to go through a conversion process, so choline/methionine may not be enough to counteract niacin/niacinamides effects on methyl group depletion? I think betaine tmg is interchangeable with methylfolate and methylb12 as far as lowering homocysteine. I haven't seen that choline/methionine alone can fill in for methyl group donors.

I think I posted a link earlier which mentioned that niacin has some effect on methyl group depletion, while niacinamide has a much larger effect, and nicotinamide riboside has the least effect. So the fact you are using regular niacin instead of niacinamide could be why you haven't noticed methyl group issues with it. Maybe niacin simply isn't that potent in depleting methyl groups. there still seems to be potential for hypothyroidism from it (though I think it was mentioned thyroid hormones returned to normal after niacin was stopped)

Because of the effects of overmethylation on neurotransmitters. Overmethylation makes you have too much serotonin, noradrenaline, and adrenaline which overpower dopamine, acetylcholine, and histamine. Fatigue is not exclusive to undermethylation, overmethylation is actually more prone to make one lazy, unmotivated, unactive...

You should be getting choline regardless, you need less if you have more protein but you still need it.

No man betaine is not interchangeable with B12 and folate, you need all 3 for the methylation cycle. True they can individually reduce homocysteine but too much of one is going to deplete the others.

 

[BigChad]

Because of the effects of overmethylation on neurotransmitters. Overmethylation makes you have too much serotonin, noradrenaline, and adrenaline which overpower dopamine, acetylcholine, and histamine. Fatigue is not exclusive to undermethylation, overmethylation is actually more prone to make one lazy, unmotivated, unactive...

You should be getting choline regardless, you need less if you have more protein but you still need it.

No man betaine is not interchangeable with B12 and folate, you need all 3 for the methylation cycle. True they can individually reduce homocysteine but too much of one is going to deplete the others.

what would undermethylation do. too much dopamine, histamine, acetylcholine?
yeah true, my choline is like 300mg a day. rda is considered 550mg so its 50%.

I said betaine is interchangeable with b12/folate with regards to homocysteine lowering, obviously two of them are considered essential vitamins while betaine itself is a metabolite of choline. As far as lowering homocysteine, from what I remember they could cover for each other and had redundant effects if combined. I have heard of b12 and b9 depleting each other before but did not know betaine depletes those two. the thing is you technically do not need to intake methylb12, methylfolate, and trimethylglycine, just dietary b12, b9, choline, should be enough if you intake them. betaine isn't in many foods.