Terrible Blood Results: Very Low Energy And Weak Immunity

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milkboi

milkboi

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low vitamin D also elevates CRP and inversly lowers it. So I’d get the vitamin D fixed then just re-test everything.

Yes, I will do that, thanks. I'm not that enthusiastic about it tho because I have taken it in the past and it didn't seem to help.
 
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milkboi

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your testosterone is on the very low side.
Try some testosterone therapy and see how thats feel.
do you any sports and/or heavy labor? maybe you are overtraint to.

Unfortunately not able to work out. Whenever I hit the gym (which I love doing) I crash and get sick.

TRT is on my list of therapeutic things to try for sure. I want to fix obvious things like Vitamin D and try other immunity supporting strategies before tho, because I think most people's T will be low when they are sick. Can T actually help immunity?
 
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Kunstruct

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Can T actually help immunity
People one TRT tend to claim their immunity went up a lot, I have not been on TRT just saying what I see sometimes mentioned by people on TRT.

Now think of females with ultra low testosterone, yet many have much better immunity than males.
One of my female friends had results which show very low testosterone even for female specific values and she also has very low progesterone, yet she pretty much does not get sick at all and overall in life she was barely ever sick.
 
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milkboi

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People one TRT tend to claim their immunity went up a lot, I have not been on TRT just saying what I see sometimes mentioned by people on TRT.

Now think of females with ultra low testosterone, yet many have much better immunity than males.
One of my female friends had results which show very low testosterone even for female specific values and she also has very low progesterone, yet she pretty much does not get sick at all and in general and overall in life she was barely sick.

Yeah, I think the gender difference is real in that regard. But that doesn't mean testosterone can't have a positive effect on immunity.
 

Kunstruct

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Again I do not think your liver TPG is that good either even if it is not over that lab's top value, liver is something that will do a lot in your body.
 
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milkboi

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Again I do not think your liver TPG is that good either even if it is not over that lab's top value, liver is something that will do a lot in your body.

Ok, so what should I try for that? TUDCA?

I do already take Vitamin K2 MK4 and drink strong coffee, and take choline. Maybe I could also up my protein intake.
 
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milkboi

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@milkboi
Maybe you should have also done a prolactin and an estradiol serum test along all those tests.

Yeah, estradiol would be very interesting. I did test prolactin a few months ago, and it was pretty high (but not above range). Tried metergoline 0.5-2mg daily for that, and symptoms did not improve noticeably.

Like I said, dopamine boosting substances help me out big time with motivation, mood and energy, but they also lead to overexertion every time (because I have a damn low threshold for exertion).
 

Anders86

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Yeah, estradiol would be very interesting. I did test prolactin a few months ago, and it was pretty high (but not above range). Tried metergoline 0.5-2mg daily for that, and symptoms did not improve noticeably.

Like I said, dopamine boosting substances help me out big time with motivation, mood and energy, but they also lead to overexertion every time (because I have a damn low threshold for exertion).

Vitamin D helps with Dopamine and Testosterone.
 

Aries

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That lipid panel looks like it's on steroids, androgenic ones at that. Frequent morning wood despite low test. I bet if you tested DHT it'd be high in response to the stress. I'd also assume estradiol to be low (low HDL, low libido).

Mainstream/steroid user view on supplementing testosterone and immunity is that it decreases it. Test/tren flu upon starting cycle, I also read one TRT user who got improvment to autoimmune issues from what his doctor said was from the immunosuppressive properties of testosterone. Man flu because of testosterone, maybe... I think haidut posted somewhere about the increase in aromatasation being the immunosuppressive effect of using steroids but I couldn't find it.

So did you try supplementing vitamin D but it made no difference to blood levels of it or calcium? Maybe a different brand or route would be needed like oral/topical/synthesis by UV light?
 
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milkboi

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That lipid panel looks like it's on steroids, androgenic ones at that. Frequent morning wood despite low test. I bet if you tested DHT it'd be high in response to the stress. I'd also assume estradiol to be low (low HDL, low libido).

So what would be plausible causes for this result? "Just" stress? My doctor proposed I probably had high adrenaline, not sure about that.

So did you try supplementing vitamin D but it made no difference to blood levels of it or calcium? Maybe a different brand or route would be needed like oral/topical/synthesis by UV light?

I did try Vitamin D and I reached very high blood levels, but noticed no difference in energy or immunity. Maybe I just need to keep it medium-high constantly for a longer time so it can help me out?
 

Runenight201

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Have you ever tried adding beef and starch to your diet? Soups? Vegetables? Where do you live? Some daily quality sun time for the vitamin D.
 

Aries

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So what would be plausible causes for this result? "Just" stress? My doctor proposed I probably had high adrenaline, not sure about that.
I meant the underlying health problem, I don't know really what causes weak immunity or puts vitamin D out of range. I just guessed DHT would be high, it's not really actionable information.

It's a tough spot with the D though as your diet was good already with the mineral content and supplementing D+cofactors made so little difference.
 
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milkboi

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I meant the underlying health problem, I don't know really what causes weak immunity or puts vitamin D out of range. I just guessed DHT would be high, it's not really actionable information.

It's a tough spot with the D though as your diet was good already with the mineral content and supplementing D+cofactors made so little difference.

When I was taking the Vit. D I was on a Keto/Carnivore Diet. So maybe this time with a reasonable diet it will work better.
 
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milkboi

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According to the Triglyceride / HDL ratio, they are high. This is associated with a risk of insulin resistance.

The Triglyceride-to-HDL Cholesterol Ratio: Association with insulin resistance in obese youths of different ethnic backgrounds

I'm doing a VLF and starch free diet right now, and, against my expectations, my hunger and therefore probably my blood sugar stability/insulin sensitivity have significantly improved. So I'll keep doing that, while trying to heal the liver.
 
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milkboi

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I agree with @Kingpinguin, Vitamin D is the basic and most important to optimise as it is not only integral for immunity; it regulates a phenomenal number of genes. I would include testing the hormone, 1,25(OH)2,D3 together with PTH. I would recommend supplementing progesterone and work on keeping the intestines clean. The elevated CRP (which is not too high) still pointing to some sort of inflammatory process in the body - endotoxins most likely but could be due to intracellular micro-organism, SIBO etc. If Vitamin D is not working, then it is difficult to clear these out. They will high-jack your cells for their own agenda and inactivate the vitamin D receptor and weaken and deplete your immune fighting cells. Progesterone should be combined with vitamin D either from sunshine or supplementation.

Your phosphorus is low. I know we like to keep it low (in balance with calcium) but should still be in a healthy range. This may due to the low D levels or that you are simply not eating sufficient good quality protein. I would not assess testosterone until Vitamin D, calcium and protein has been optimised.

What would Progesterone do in that context?

Would ample milk suffice for getting phosphorus up?
 

Kunstruct

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Mainstream/steroid user view on supplementing testosterone and immunity is that it decreases it. Test/tren flu upon starting cycle, I also read one TRT user who got improvment to autoimmune issues from what his doctor said was from the immunosuppressive properties of testosterone. Man flu because of testosterone, maybe... I think haidut posted somewhere about the increase in aromatasation being the immunosuppressive effect of using steroids but I couldn't find it.

I've seen such talks on youtube about flu-like symptoms from trenbolone and sometimes from testosterone, but as far as I remember most of the people especially the ones using trenbolone were having these due to huge doses. Generally I have seen people saying they had to reduce their dosage to get away from being sick form the huge amount of exogenous steroids like tren and test.
Now trenbolone is nothing that could be found in the body or something that could increase aromatase enzyme, the claim is that it does the opposite.
Interesting is the talk about no-fear type of effect which it has on certain people and the huge anxiety it has on other people. I am curious how various doses affect neurotransmitters.

However I have seen people which were on TRT doses saying their immunity went up and they are feeling much better and overall much better. It is also true that some say TRT did simply nothing for them.
 

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To make echo to @Ella 's post:
A letter to the ME/CFS research community (+ doctors, + patients) | Microbe Minded

Not a solution to your problem but interesting nonetheless.

The microbial aspect definitely needs to be looked at.

WBC at 6.4 shows some low-grade infection, as optimal range would be 4-6 (per Dr. Weatherby), but being at the low end would even be better.
Your neutrophil percentage at 77% is above optimal levels of 40-60%. There is some bacterial infection that causes more neutrophils to be marshalled. The innate immune system is doing extra work, where neutrophils kill bacteria using phagocytosis. Some spillover ROS could be destroying some adjacent tissues, which could cause inflammation, as indicated by high CRP levels (according to Dr. Tom Lewis, hsCRP above 0.6 points to inflammation). Your CRP is 1.53, which does not get you off the hook.

If you are chronically at a high level of low grade inflammation, it causes your innate immune system at a state of high alert all the time. This may help increase your body temperature, but it would not be enough for a fever to be registered. Thus, you could falsely think that your seemingly normal temperature is indicative of a normal thyroid.

It would be good for you to check your thyroid using a TSH panel that includes the rT3, which is expensive, or to rely on getting the QTc in an ECG (which could be expensive if Germany is like the US, where an ECG can be done only with a cardiologist; unlike in the Philippines where I could get one easily for less than $8 by walk-in; The QTc has to equal or less than 440 msec). Another way is to get somebody to do an Achilles tendon reflex test on you, but this is a lost art so you can't expect doctors or physical therapists to know how to do it the right way; it's the cheapest method though, but I doubt that most people have either the patience or time or aptitude to go thru this; the neuro hammer is easily available through Amazon).

I also doubt that your heart rate of 80 speaks to your having a good metabolism. It doesn't align with the fact that you have chronic fatigue syndrome, and that you have low energy. Perhaps your heart rate is high because your heart is inefficient in pumping blood. An ECG could be helpful in further assessing that. Even without an ECG, you can start to improve your vit D status, as that has an effect on your calcium balance. And calcium deficiency could really affect the ionic-driven pumping action of the heart.

Your fasting blood sugar of 73 is rather low. Below 70, I would already feel hypoglycemic and I would be feeling low on energy. I would see a fasting blood sugar of 85-95 as ideal. It's a longer topic talking about addressing low blood sugar but suffice it to say that this has a lot to do with your low energy and low immunity. I cannot overemphasize the importance having blood sugar regulation, and this has to be one area you have to focus on.

Related to this is that your SGPT is high at 43 (optimal is <30). You may have fatty liver, or excessive muscle breakdown. When low on sugar, muscle is broken down to form sugar through neoglucegenesis. Perhaps if you can improve your blood sugar control, this value can start to look better.

Lastly, you seem to have low blood volume. Your RBC, HgB, Hct are all consistently giving sign that is the case: RGB - 5.8 (4.2-4.9 optimal); HgB - 16.9 (14-15 optimal), and Hct - 0.50 (0.4-0.48). This may be caused by low serum albumin. Albumin attracts and holds on to the sodium ions, and sodium holds on to water. More albumin makes possible higher plasma and blood volume. It's possible albumin is being used as an anti-oxidant to neutralize spillover ROS from phagocytosis (to kill bacteria) and that the oxidized albumin is being excreted out in urine. This lowers your serum albumin and your blood volume. Is your urine foamy?

Have you tested your blood sugar over a 5 hour period, starting with right before meal, and an hour after a meal, and every hour after until the 5hr mark? This gives you a good idea to assess your blood sugar control.

How do you feel after jogging for a kilometer? Are you sore all over from lactic acid? If you are, you're quick to build up lactic acid and this could either be due to low blood oxygen transport or hypoxemia or low tissue oxygenation, or poor glucose metabolism arising from low thyroid, or low thiamine, of even low cytochrome c oxidase, from lack of red light exposure.

I hope this isn't too much for you to work with. I used to have low immunity and perhaps low energy as well. No one gave me a long list like I did you so I had no opportunity to get overwhelmed. I also didn't know where to begin but luckily over time I slowly was able to address each issue, not that it was by design. I had no idea of cortisol and its effects then, but worked on improving my blood sugar regulation and my health took a dramatic turn. One nit about this forum is that people tend to talk about the details too much, and jump to talking about cortisol but neglect focusing on blood sugar regulation. I believe that most of the time, you can gloss over the nitty gritty of cortisol and not even know what it does, and do well by just fixing your bllood sugar regulation. It's just like knowing you have enough supply of gasoline when driving a car. You rarely have to know about how the internal combustion engine works.



The monocyte levels of 5.4% indicate the level of endotoxins produced by bacteria being killed by the innate immune system is still rather mild.
 

lampofred

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The microbial aspect definitely needs to be looked at.

WBC at 6.4 shows some low-grade infection, as optimal range would be 4-6 (per Dr. Weatherby), but being at the low end would even be better.
Your neutrophil percentage at 77% is above optimal levels of 40-60%. There is some bacterial infection that causes more neutrophils to be marshalled. The innate immune system is doing extra work, where neutrophils kill bacteria using phagocytosis. Some spillover ROS could be destroying some adjacent tissues, which could cause inflammation, as indicated by high CRP levels (according to Dr. Tom Lewis, hsCRP above 0.6 points to inflammation). Your CRP is 1.53, which does not get you off the hook.

If you are chronically at a high level of low grade inflammation, it causes your innate immune system at a state of high alert all the time. This may help increase your body temperature, but it would not be enough for a fever to be registered. Thus, you could falsely think that your seemingly normal temperature is indicative of a normal thyroid.

It would be good for you to check your thyroid using a TSH panel that includes the rT3, which is expensive, or to rely on getting the QTc in an ECG (which could be expensive if Germany is like the US, where an ECG can be done only with a cardiologist; unlike in the Philippines where I could get one easily for less than $8 by walk-in; The QTc has to equal or less than 440 msec). Another way is to get somebody to do an Achilles tendon reflex test on you, but this is a lost art so you can't expect doctors or physical therapists to know how to do it the right way; it's the cheapest method though, but I doubt that most people have either the patience or time or aptitude to go thru this; the neuro hammer is easily available through Amazon).

I also doubt that your heart rate of 80 speaks to your having a good metabolism. It doesn't align with the fact that you have chronic fatigue syndrome, and that you have low energy. Perhaps your heart rate is high because your heart is inefficient in pumping blood. An ECG could be helpful in further assessing that. Even without an ECG, you can start to improve your vit D status, as that has an effect on your calcium balance. And calcium deficiency could really affect the ionic-driven pumping action of the heart.

Your fasting blood sugar of 73 is rather low. Below 70, I would already feel hypoglycemic and I would be feeling low on energy. I would see a fasting blood sugar of 85-95 as ideal. It's a longer topic talking about addressing low blood sugar but suffice it to say that this has a lot to do with your low energy and low immunity. I cannot overemphasize the importance having blood sugar regulation, and this has to be one area you have to focus on.

Related to this is that your SGPT is high at 43 (optimal is <30). You may have fatty liver, or excessive muscle breakdown. When low on sugar, muscle is broken down to form sugar through neoglucegenesis. Perhaps if you can improve your blood sugar control, this value can start to look better.

Lastly, you seem to have low blood volume. Your RBC, HgB, Hct are all consistently giving sign that is the case: RGB - 5.8 (4.2-4.9 optimal); HgB - 16.9 (14-15 optimal), and Hct - 0.50 (0.4-0.48). This may be caused by low serum albumin. Albumin attracts and holds on to the sodium ions, and sodium holds on to water. More albumin makes possible higher plasma and blood volume. It's possible albumin is being used as an anti-oxidant to neutralize spillover ROS from phagocytosis (to kill bacteria) and that the oxidized albumin is being excreted out in urine. This lowers your serum albumin and your blood volume. Is your urine foamy?

Have you tested your blood sugar over a 5 hour period, starting with right before meal, and an hour after a meal, and every hour after until the 5hr mark? This gives you a good idea to assess your blood sugar control.

How do you feel after jogging for a kilometer? Are you sore all over from lactic acid? If you are, you're quick to build up lactic acid and this could either be due to low blood oxygen transport or hypoxemia or low tissue oxygenation, or poor glucose metabolism arising from low thyroid, or low thiamine, of even low cytochrome c oxidase, from lack of red light exposure.

I hope this isn't too much for you to work with. I used to have low immunity and perhaps low energy as well. No one gave me a long list like I did you so I had no opportunity to get overwhelmed. I also didn't know where to begin but luckily over time I slowly was able to address each issue, not that it was by design. I had no idea of cortisol and its effects then, but worked on improving my blood sugar regulation and my health took a dramatic turn. One nit about this forum is that people tend to talk about the details too much, and jump to talking about cortisol but neglect focusing on blood sugar regulation. I believe that most of the time, you can gloss over the nitty gritty of cortisol and not even know what it does, and do well by just fixing your bllood sugar regulation. It's just like knowing you have enough supply of gasoline when driving a car. You rarely have to know about how the internal combustion engine works.



The monocyte levels of 5.4% indicate the level of endotoxins produced by bacteria being killed by the innate immune system is still rather mild.

Damn. I wonder if even professional MDs interpret labs at that level. The ones I've seen didn't.
 

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