Temps & Pulses My Girlfriend And I

[EndAllDisease]

I have recorded my temperature and pulse as well as my girlfriends last night and this morning. I know it would have been useful to also take the post breakfast numbers but I didn't. Here's the data... Would love to hear your opinions about these and what you think the best course of action is.

Mark:
Age: 30
Before bed: 96.9 degrees/66bpm
Basal upon waking: 96.3 degrees/62bpm
Note: I'm really disappointed with these numbers as I have been eating quite well recently. 2-3L of organic juice a day, 200g of cheese, milk, gelatin with proteins, fructose in my coffee, as well as supplementing with progesterone, pregnenolone + dhea (idealabs), niacinamide, doxycycline (I'm on day 15 of a 30 day cycle to reduce iron), vitamin ADEK (idealabs), B vitamins (idealabs).

Alexandra:
Age: 27
Before bed: 97 degrees/58bpm
Basal upon waking: 97.7 degrees/ 44bpm
Note: Her low pulse scares me. It was also 'thready' or irregular when she was taking it in the morning.

 

[ecstatichamster]

You are drinking too much liquid maybe. That lowers thyroid. You both seem low thyroid. Have you thought about supplementing thyroid?

 

[EndAllDisease]

Yes I sure have. In fact, I have haidut's TyroMax on its way in the mail and can't wait for it's arrival.

To me, and correct me if I'm wrong, it seems clear that I need thyroid and for whatever reason my body just doesn't want to produce it despite much support.
My girlfriend's case seems a bit different and I'd like to understand what is causing the super low/irregular pulse. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[James_001]

Yes I sure have. In fact, I have haidut's TyroMax on its way in the mail and can't wait for it's arrival.

To me, and correct me if I'm wrong, it seems clear that I need thyroid and for whatever reason my body just doesn't want to produce it despite much support.
My girlfriend's case seems a bit different and I'd like to understand what is causing the super low/irregular pulse. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Most women have been undereating their whole lives...

 

[Lightbringer]

supplementing with progesterone

Why?

 

[Blossom]

Most women have been undereating their whole lives..

Yes, this is the first place I'd look with a heart rate that low.

 

[EndAllDisease]

Why?

Because of what Ray has said about it, including...
“In experiments, progesterone was found to be the basic hormone of adaptation and of resistance to stress."

My sex drive has been pretty good, and if it slows I would cut back on the progesterone.
Other than that, is there a good reason to stop that perhaps I am overlooking?

 

[EndAllDisease]

Most women have been undereating their whole lives...

Yes, this is the first place I'd look with a heart rate that low.

Fantastic! Thank you.

 

[Mr Rossi]

pregnenolone + dhea (idealabs)

I took the Pansterone for a few days and it lowers my temperature. But I will try it again soon.
Maybe one of your supplements reduce your temperature?!

Ecstatichamster has already addressed and explained it. You drink a lot of liquid.

 

[EndAllDisease]

Maybe one of your supplements reduce your temperature?!

Maybe. Do you have any idea why that would happen?

Ecstatichamster has already addressed and explained it. You drink a lot of liquid.

I think it would be important for me to write down a typical day of eating in full before we come to that conclusion.

Meals every 3 hours or so:
- 2 eggs, fresh fruit, fruit juice, milk.
- 100 grams cheese + fruit juice
- 600 ml milk
- 100 grams cheese
- A hot meal - ex. last night my girlfriend cooked ratatouille and chicken drumsticks. I ate that with a block of gelatin made with fruit juice and fructose. I try to avoid chicken especially dark meat, so to compensate we took vitamin E to saturate the pufa.
- Milk and orange juice before bed.

Would you still consider that too much liquid? I have read about the 100% milk diet and its successes. What evidence do we have that shows a liquid diet lowers temperature?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I would consider that a lot of liquid.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC441709/pdf/jcinvest00446-0124.pdf

this is an old study but very clear. Too much fluid causes aldosterone and extracellular water, swelling and estrogen-like effects. I am not a scientist but it definitely suppresses thyroid function, probably by parathyroid hormone. Someone else can better explain it. That said, if the fulid has nutrients and electrolytes it may not be a problem, such as milk and juice, BUT if you are already hypothyroid it seems to BECOME a problem.

 

[Lightbringer]

Because of what Ray has said about it, including...
“In experiments, progesterone was found to be the basic hormone of adaptation and of resistance to stress."

My sex drive has been pretty good, and if it slows I would cut back on the progesterone.
Other than that, is there a good reason to stop that perhaps I am overlooking?

I very highly doubt Ray would recommend Progesterone to a 30 year old male except perhaps in extraordinary situations. You also mentioned your sex drive is good and you are consuming high quality foods - perhaps reducing supplements rather than adding more might be more beneficial. Again, this is all assuming we are talking of a lowish waking temp as the main symptom.

You may want to measure your temp after eating your first meal and your temp in the afternoon. Also, how is your digestion ? Looking at your diet, if you are consuming upwards of 80g of protein, the majority from low fat dairy, plus the OJ and don't have digestive issues, I think you can ignore the 'too much liquid' argument which has gained a faithful following for some reason.

 

[EndAllDisease]

Most women have been undereating their whole lives...

Yes, this is the first place I'd look with a heart rate that low.

Hey guys I was thinking about your responses suggesting that my girlfriend's low pulse may be related to undereating...
What evidence do we have that suggests not enough food intake produces a low pulse? And do you think it's related to a certain macronutrient deficiency like protein, or just an overall lack of calories?

 

[EndAllDisease]

I would consider that a lot of liquid.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC441709/pdf/jcinvest00446-0124.pdf

You may want to measure your temp after eating your first meal and your temp in the afternoon. Also, how is your digestion ?

I don't like the idea of reducing supplements. When I think about reducing supplement intake, first I feel afraid then that fear changes to anger. I suspect I've been hypothyroid for at least 10 years, maybe 19 years (when my mom died when I was 12) and each supplement is like a piece of armor protecting me from the endless list of poisons and stress factors in this upside down world.

Maybe I'll check my temperature and pulse throughout the day. I am having a friend build me a handheld capnometer so I will be able to have a more accurate measure of the metabolism with CO2 content in the expired breath so I will be able to check that soon too instead of just temp and pulse.

As far as digestion goes, I've been eating as many carrot coconut salads as possible lately and I seem to digest fairly well as far as I know.

 

[Blossom]

Hey guys I was thinking about your responses suggesting that my girlfriend's low pulse may be related to undereating...
What evidence do we have that suggests not enough food intake produces a low pulse? And do you think it's related to a certain macronutrient deficiency like protein, or just an overall lack of calories?

Not enough food intake long-term is commonly known to down regulate metabolism in general of which lowered heart rate would be only one of the bodies adaptive responses. Most of the data on this phenomenon comes from studying/observing famine survivors. Both macronutrients and micronutrients can certainly be involved as we need calories and nutrients first and foremost to have a healthy metabolism. Has your girlfriend used cronometer? Another tool I find helpful is Total energy expenditure but ultimately it will be up to your girlfriend to decide if she feels she is eating enough to support her appetite and energy requirements.

 

[Jennifer]

I'm very sorry you lost your mom, especially at a young age, FlatEarth.

To get your morning temps up, you could try sleeping with a heating pad or heated blanket? I sleep on a heating pad right at the core of my body and this has helped a lot in raising my temps. Also, I find taking a hot bath first thing in the morning helps.

If you're away from home and don't have the ability to be under bright light, if you can comfortably add an extra layer of clothing, such as a base layer/thermal underwear, this too can help raise temps and take the added stress of trying to produce heat, off your body. In theory, by keeping your body as warm as possible throughout the day, you should hopefully see a rise in temps. It's been working for me even when thyroid supplementation didn't.

Oh and besides calorie consumption, another thing that can contribute to a lower pulse rate is endurance exercise. Ray mentioned this in one of his articles.

 

[tara]

What evidence do we have that suggests not enough food intake produces a low pulse? And do you think it's related to a certain macronutrient deficiency like protein, or just an overall lack of calories?

This is a bit round-about wrt your question, but related:
Recovery from undereating - Youreatopia | Ray Peat Forum

 

[m_arch]

I don't like the idea of reducing supplements. When I think about reducing supplement intake, first I feel afraid then that fear changes to anger. I suspect I've been hypothyroid for at least 10 years, maybe 19 years (when my mom died when I was 12) and each supplement is like a piece of armor protecting me from the endless list of poisons and stress factors in this upside down world.

Maybe I'll check my temperature and pulse throughout the day. I am having a friend build me a handheld capnometer so I will be able to have a more accurate measure of the metabolism with CO2 content in the expired breath so I will be able to check that soon too instead of just temp and pulse.

As far as digestion goes, I've been eating as many carrot coconut salads as possible lately and I seem to digest fairly well as far as I know.

Damn mega win for that friend.