Taurine Causing Depression

[walker_in_aus]

I have been using taurine for a few months and it truly has removed my residual anxiety and any depression. Resilient! My partner has been complaining of brain fog, lack of energy, inability to concentrate and bad hayfever so I'm slowly suggesting things for him to try. Starting with Energin, k2 in the morning with his coffee, estroban, stopping him from taking panadol and taking aspirin instead, trying to get him to try cypro regularly (chemist told him to take three a day and he could barely move from the sedative effect so it put him off. what is wrong with pharmacists, 3 a day!!??!). Feeding him more fruit and dairy, he is a very warm energetic healthy skinned guy with no hairloss at 30 so generally he's pretty well. He wanted more brain help so I was like, ok try L-Theanine. Took that for two weeks and said he was focusing better. I ten said well add taurine in as it's magical for a lot of stuff, mainly liver health.

Within a day he spiralled into the worst depression - like not sad, just blank about everything and really irritable.

He is doing some soul searching about his job but this was crazy bad, I've been with him for 8 years and I've never seen him so empty of anything other than mild irritation. Taurine has been a godsend for me and lots of people I know and I'm a bit baffled as to how it's affecting him, only taking a quarter of a teaspoon in the morning with K2 and organic coffee?

I know taking single aminos can cause imbalances in others, but that quickly? And has anyone else experienced this?

 

[DaveFoster]

1/4 tsp is around 2 grams, which is a reasonable amount. Maybe it's an allergy, or possibly a catatoxic reaction, as taurine can detoxify the liver.

Functional evolution of the pregnane X receptor

"In contrast to the data in mammals described above, the first major study to systematically compare multiple non-mammalian and mammalian PXRs found that the zebrafish PXR was not activated by a variety of bile acids and synthetic bile acid derivatives [10]. However, biliary bile salts vary significantly across vertebrate species and the bile acids found in humans, mice, and most other mammals are not found in zebrafish and some other fish [97–99]. Most mammals and birds, and even the majority of present-day bony fish, convert 27-carbon cholesterol predominantly to C24 bile acids such as cholic acid and chenodeoxycholic acid, conjugated to either glycine or taurine. In contrast, the evolutionarily ‘earliest’ fish (i.e., the fish most distantly related to humans), represented now by jawless fish (lampreys, hagfish), cartilaginous fish (e.g., sharks, skates, rays) and some bony fish (like zebrafish), synthesize C27bile alcohols conjugated with sulfate (see Figure 1) [99,100]. In these ‘early’ fish, C27 bile alcohol sulfates account for nearly all biliary lipids [100]. The zebrafish does not produce any C24 bile acids and instead synthesizes 5α-cyprinol (5α-cholestan-3α,7α,12α,26,27-pentol) sulfate [101,102], a bile alcohol sulfate very similar to the bile salts found in the earliest vertebrates to evolve, the jawless fish [103,104]. The bile salt synthetic pathway leading to C27 bile alcohol sulfates is a simpler pathway than that needed to produce C24 bile acids such as cholic acid (avoiding for example the need to cleave the cholesterol side-chain) and likely represents the first bile salt synthetic pathway to evolve in vertebrates [100,102]."

The nuclear receptor PXR is a lithocholic acid sensor that protects against liver toxicity

"Lithocholic acid (LCA) is a hydrophobic secondary bile acid that is primarily formed in the intestine by the bacterial 7α-dehydroxylation of chenodeoxycholic acid. Administration of LCA and its conjugates to rodents is known to cause intrahepatic cholestasis (12, 13). Cholestasis, functionally defined as a cessation or impairment of bile flow, can cause nutritional imbalance related to malabsorption of lipids and fat-soluble vitamins and, moreover, irreversible liver damage as a result of the accumulation of toxins normally excreted in bile (14). In humans, elevated levels of LCA are found in patients suffering from chronic cholestatic liver disease (15). The potentially harmful effects of LCA and other bile acids are attenuated by two hepatic detoxification pathways, namely hydroxylation and conjugation. These reactions make the bile acid more hydrophilic and facilitate its excretion in the feces or urine. Notably, 6-hydroxylation of LCA is catalyzed by members of the CYP3A subfamily (16, 17)."

Taurine Detoxifies the Liver

 

[DrJ]

If Dave's calculation is right, 2g is a lot from my experience. I find Taurine dosing to be very finnicky and I'm not totally certain of the reason why. I typically have to take in the range of 0.25-0.5g per day to maybe not experience ill effects, and not even every day. I would scale back the dosing. Fyi I'm a mid thirties male of 72kg if that helps with dosing idea.

 

[walker_in_aus]

Oh ***t!!! Thanks. Will dial down.

 

[walker_in_aus]

If Dave's calculation is right, 2g is a lot from my experience. I find Taurine dosing to be very finnicky and I'm not totally certain of the reason why. I typically have to take in the range of 0.25-0.5g per day to maybe not experience ill effects, and not even every day. I would scale back the dosing. Fyi I'm a mid thirties male of 72kg if that helps with dosing idea.

Thanks. Yeah I guess I built up to it and was following very low fat and pufa and had been doing some other liver health stuff at the time. I honestly thought a quarter teaspoon was 1/2 a gram, I must have measured it wrong when I started on it....

Thanks. He's been off it two days and is feeling better.

He's also going through career/life choice issues so probably added stress.

 

[Buttercup]

Taurine also de-fattens the liver, increasing FFAs in the bloodstream (just like coffee does). So if you don't PUFA restrict, it can cause all kinds of acute metabolic derangement symptoms. Taking with vitamin E might be advised (and ample sugar, of course), to lessen these effects on the body (which aren't going to feel good if is taken without such support).

 

[Dhair]

Thanks. Yeah I guess I built up to it and was following very low fat and pufa and had been doing some other liver health stuff at the time. I honestly thought a quarter teaspoon was 1/2 a gram, I must have measured it wrong when I started on it....

Thanks. He's been off it two days and is feeling better.

He's also going through career/life choice issues so probably added stress.

I became irritable, depressed, borderline suicidal when I first started taking 2.5 grams of taurine. That was months ago. This past week, I have started to add it to my stack again, and I feel fantastic on it so far, and I'm now up to 5 grams.
I think @DaveFoster might be on to something with the liver detox effect. There also may be some undesirable excipients in the brand he's taking that could be irritating his gut and increasing serotonin.

 

[Broken man]

Taurine also de-fattens the liver, increasing FFAs in the bloodstream (just like coffee does). So if you don't PUFA restrict, it can cause all kinds of acute metabolic derangement symptoms. Taking with vitamin E might be advised (and ample sugar, of course), to lessen these effects on the body (which aren't going to feel good if is taken without such support).

Oh yeah, especially considering its effects on inhibiting PUFA metabolism, increasing glycogen storage, and lowering FFA.

 

[Broken man]

It could be due to impurities in the products. Anything that irritates your gut will give you the blues temporarily.

 

[walker_in_aus]

Also a good point but I've been taking the same one and my gut, despite its usual sensitivities is fine. It's been 24 hours and since stopping taurine and having plenty of fruit and an aspirin he's feeling like himself again. Terrifying!

 

[Broken man]

Read this Niacin Therapy. It helped me alot. Could it be depersonalization from too much gaba ? I am doing about 5- 10 g of taurine per day, 1-2 g with every meal. I found that I can drink coffee without problems now. Fantastic thing.

 

[keith]

My knowledge of biochemistry is not at all strong, but if I understand correctly, bile production requires cholesterol. If taurine increases bile, then it may reduce the amount of cholesterol available for other purposes such as steroid production, which may have something to do with it. In that case sugar, particularly fructose, may be helpful. Pregnenolone might also be helpful if a steroid shortage is the cause. I've found pregnenolone to be helpful for anxiety, but I think others have had some depression issues with it, so start low if you try that.

 

[Prosper]

Doesn't taurine inhibit dopamine by increasing GABA, or something in that manner? I get extremely anhedonic and "empty" from taurine too. Does your partner in general exhibit low dopamine behavior? Weak drive & motivation to get things done? That's me. To people like us adding something like taurine in the mix may be too soothing.

 

[Broken man]

Doesn't taurine inhibit dopamine by increasing GABA, or something in that manner? I get extremely anhedonic and "empty" from taurine too. Does your partner in general exhibit low dopamine behavior? Weak drive & motivation to get things done? That's me. To people like us adding something like taurine in the mix may be too soothing.

Taurine Increase Dopamine Synthesis In The Brain

 

[Diokine]

Taurine directly interacts with NDMA and GABA receptors and can have some fairly potent effects on mood depending on neuro-topology. Has he had any trouble sleeping recently? Is there sufficient magnesium in the diet? It may help to take taurine with glycine, possibly small amounts of tyrosine.

 

[walker_in_aus]

Read this Niacin Therapy. It helped me alot. Could it be depersonalization from too much gaba ? I am doing about 5- 10 g of taurine per day, 1-2 g with every meal. I found that I can drink coffee without problems now. Fantastic thing.

I love Nathan's blog! For me, very relatable and similar, hypo crazy insomniac. I find it hard with my significant other rat, because he has a few symptoms but nothing ragingly obvious besides brain fog, and getting REALLY BAD DOMS. I think Taurine reaction shows some liver problems. Loves his fried food but eats it WAAAAY less now thank god. I told him I'd rather smoke a pack of ciggies than eat fish and chips. I was scared the taurine thing would put him off looking for brain fog solutions but it's kinda inspired him that taking one little thing had such a huge effect (even though negative). I might try to get him to read this now, he's more open to it! I also sent him one of Nathans latest selfies where he's like "I got buff eating sugar and lying on the couch"... it's impressive!

My knowledge of biochemistry is not at all strong, but if I understand correctly, bile production requires cholesterol. If taurine increases bile, then it may reduce the amount of cholesterol available for other purposes such as steroid production, which may have something to do with it. In that case sugar, particularly fructose, may be helpful. Pregnenolone might also be helpful if a steroid shortage is the cause. I've found pregnenolone to be helpful for anxiety, but I think others have had some depression issues with it, so start low if you try that.

I put stressnon on his once and it burned him and he is like pretty keen to not do that again, even though theoretically it could probably mean he needs it! I'm going to try LifeExtension pill next... and feed him more. I always forget, metabolic stimulant you need more food. Hard to convince him to eat more sugar.... he still thinks sugar = devil. Slowly changing his mind, he loves mango smoothies....

Doesn't taurine inhibit dopamine by increasing GABA, or something in that manner? I get extremely anhedonic and "empty" from taurine too. Does your partner in general exhibit low dopamine behavior? Weak drive & motivation to get things done? That's me. To people like us adding something like taurine in the mix may be too soothing.

His drive at work is so low and it makes him depressed. He wants to want to get things done, but he just can't. So easily distracted, has been getting worse the last few years. Taurine is out of the question for a while! Might change diet more.

Taurine directly interacts with NDMA and GABA receptors and can have some fairly potent effects on mood depending on neuro-topology. Has he had any trouble sleeping recently? Is there sufficient magnesium in the diet? It may help to take taurine with glycine, possibly small amounts of tyrosine.

He sleeps like a hibernating bear, never remembers dreams. we eat cooked greens regularly and he loves epsom salt baths....

 

[BibleBeliever]

Doesn't it use up salt? Whenever I take taurine I find I need more salt than usual otherwise I get the common symptom of low salt -depression. Add enough salt and happiness results.

 

[REOSIRENS]

Taurine lowers blood sugar levels/cholesterol/dhea/Phenylalanine/tyrosine/glycine/beta-alanine
That's why it will cause depression if you take high dose

 

[sladerunner69]

I can feel empty and borred on too much taurine as well.

 

[BibleBeliever]

Taurine lowers blood sugar levels/cholesterol/dhea/Phenylalanine/tyrosine/glycine/beta-alanine
That's why it will cause depression if you take high dose

It lowers dhea?