Taurine And Heat

[dfspcc20]

Taurine seems like it would be plentiful in an omnivorous diet. However, it does seem sensitive to heat, as shown in the Pottenger Cat study. Francis M. Pottenger, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In an all-cooked/pasteurized diet, I'm questioning whether we can get enough taurine from food alone. Sure, having a safe source of grass-fed raw milk would be ideal, along with safe, fresh meat, if you're into eating it raw. In most practical cases, though, it seems like supplementation might be necessary in many cases. Many people here seem to benefit greatly from supplementing with it.

Yes, I know we're not cats, and humans can synthesize taurine from cystine. I haven't studied all the details, but I'm sure that conversion gets compromised by stress, aging, PUFA, etc.

Mostly thinking out loud here. Just wondering if anyone else has anything to weigh in with.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I'd say your thinking is pretty much dead on. Just because humans can synthesize taurine doesn't mean that getting more from diet or supplements wouldn't be beneficial. I started to wonder the same thing after learning about this experiment.

In a sense, even Pottenger's cat's didn't "need" the taurine for a couple generations, yet the cats that got the natural taurine were better off and healthier in pretty much every way. Considering the number of studies that have been posted on this forum alone showing the benefits of taurine, I supplement it myself. The trick for me is finding a dose that maximizes benefits without and GI issues. This time around, I'm ramping up slowly, but would like to shoot for about 3g a day.

 

[lindsay]

Raw egg yokes would be another decent source. And an Ox Bile supplement. I'm not sure about the latter, but since Taurine is found in Bile, it's a good possibility.

 

[paymanz]

Humans can make around 100 mg taurine a day ,if get enough protein and b6.

Vegan have lower taurine in their blood and urine.

We are not like cats but still we need some taurine in our diet.

Rats and dogs are much better than us making taurine for example,one study showed a medium size dog excrete around 1 gram of taurine in their urine a day.

Other than sea foods ,poultry(chicken,and especially turkey) legs are highest in taurine.
Its not heat sensitive but if you boil it most of taurines gets resolved in water so drinking the broth is important for taurine.
Glycine increases taurine synthesis in rats but I don't think it be same in human.

Eggs are not bad ,around 10 mg taurine per egg.

 

[dfspcc20]

Its not heat sensitive

Are you sure about that?

http://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(90)78846-7/pdf

Something in milk was protective of taurine, with a 10% loss at typical 'sterilization' temperatures. Losses outside of milk (buffered lactose solution?) due to heat seemed to be much higher.

 

[paymanz]

Are you sure about that?

http://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(90)78846-7/pdf

Something in milk was protective of taurine, with a 10% loss at typical 'sterilization' temperatures. Losses outside of milk (buffered lactose solution?) due to heat seemed to be much higher.

that link you post made me think about it again.
i cant remember exactly what references i seen before that made me make the conclusion taurine is heat stable.

i think the most solid one was this Taurine concentrations in animal feed ingredients; cooking influences taurine content. - PubMed - NCBI - it compared lot of food items,cooked , raw...
especially check the taurine content in water of boiled meats,fish...
full paper link : www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmb/labs/aal/pdfs/spitze.pdf

here also they mentioned Temporal reproducibility of taurine measurements in frozen serum of healthy postmenopausal women

Taurine has been shown to be very stable at high temperatures(18)

but i dont have access to the reference they cited.

 

[lindsay]

Eggs are not bad ,around 10 mg taurine per egg

Where are you getting these numbers from?

I found this chart, which lists much higher taurine amounts?

Taurine Content of Selected Foods: Taurine Deficiency Very Unlikely on a Normal Diet - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

I don't know why I even bothered supplementing. If these numbers are accurate, I probably get plenty in my diet, and without accompanying nausea of my supplement. However, though I don't drink it often, I have no trouble drinking red bull.

This would explain my incredibly large cravings for high fat dairy & eggs after surgery - not to mention sushi. It was all I could stomach for quite some time and still remains a staple for me.

 

[paymanz]

@lindsay which chart?

i got 10mg per egg from here Modified egg as a nutritional supplement during peak brain development: a new target for fortification. - PubMed - NCBI
full paper:
nah.sagepub.com/content/20/2/107.full.pdf

and another source i posted in above post list it as 4-600mg/kg!
that means at best 30 mg per egg.

 

[lindsay]

@lindsay which chart?

Whoops! I forgot the link originally. Just added it to my original post. But here it is in any case:

Taurine Content of Selected Foods: Taurine Deficiency Very Unlikely on a Normal Diet - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

 

[paymanz]

Whoops! I forgot the link originally. Just added it to my original post. But here it is in any case:

Taurine Content of Selected Foods: Taurine Deficiency Very Unlikely on a Normal Diet - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

dairy(cow) is well known for its low taurine content.it listed cheese to be 1000mg of taurine/3oz.plants dont have any taurine as much as i know and it mentioned avocado 75mg taurine per 1/2.it doesnt seem to be reliable at all.numbers are incorrect.

i see he/she mentioned reference as USDA handbook number 8.i downloaded it,but apparently they havent mentioned taurine in entire e-book.

 

[lindsay]

dairy(cow) is well known for its low taurine content.it listed cheese to be 1000mg of taurine/3oz.plants dont have any taurine as much as i know and it mentioned avocado 75mg taurine per 1/2.it doesnt seem to be reliable at all.numbers are incorrect.

i see he/she mentioned reference as USDA handbook number 8.i downloaded it,but apparently they havent mentioned taurine in entire e-book.

Yeah - it seems like a horrible chart, even though it's one of the first things to pop up in a google search. However, I just found this one on PubMed. Fish is where it's at - especially scallops. If only they weren't so darned expensive!

The potential protective effects of taurine on coronary heart disease

Seafood is just so darned nutritious. Here's the study that chart is from:

The potential protective effects of taurine on coronary heart disease

 

[Krigeren]

Strong bump here, but for reference as this thread comes up at the top when searching the forum on this topic:

Link: Glutamine: Metabolism and Immune Function, Supplementation and Clinical Translation

"In this review article, the authors discuss the potential health benefits of taurine and its stability under various conditions, including heat. They note that taurine is generally considered to be heat stable and can withstand typical cooking temperatures without significant degradation. The authors cite several studies that have investigated the heat stability of taurine, including one study that found that taurine remained stable after exposure to temperatures of up to 180°C for up to 60 minutes."

Was looking into this b/c I would like to try large-ish doses of Taurine in my morning coffee & collagen brew.

 

[Mossy]

Strong bump here, but for reference as this thread comes up at the top when searching the forum on this topic:

Link: Glutamine: Metabolism and Immune Function, Supplementation and Clinical Translation

"In this review article, the authors discuss the potential health benefits of taurine and its stability under various conditions, including heat. They note that taurine is generally considered to be heat stable and can withstand typical cooking temperatures without significant degradation. The authors cite several studies that have investigated the heat stability of taurine, including one study that found that taurine remained stable after exposure to temperatures of up to 180°C for up to 60 minutes."

Was looking into this b/c I would like to try large-ish doses of Taurine in my morning coffee & collagen brew.

Let us know how it goes. I feel taurine does counter the caffeine jitters, but I then crash pretty significantly from the taurine. I get lethargic and feel off for days afterwards, as well as having what feels like a dyhdrated system.