Taurine And Glycine Combo-horrible Sleep

milk_lover

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This link cites food highest in glycine per 200 calories serving --> Foods highest in Glycine

You can see even chicken breast has a respectful amounts of glycine. Lobster, shrimp, lungs, lamb variety parts, and others have good amounts of glycine.
 

milk_lover

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@Mauritio this is Peat's answer when I asked him about gelatin: "Mostly I get gelatin from things like ox-tail soup, but I use a little gelatin from Great Lakes Gelatin."
 
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Gelatin is too high in arginine for me to want to use in supplemental form. I am convinced that the high arginine from it caused a shingles outbreak when I took large amounts many years ago. Glycine agrees better with me, however I have also noticed it stops working for sleep if I take it frequently. Trimethylglycine for whatever reason give me better sleep than glycine and has not stopped working after 6+ months now of taking it every night. Melatonin is great for initiating sleep but you will need enough glycine and gaba and glycogen to maintain a full night of sleep. Taurine I get no noticeable sleep effects from, but I take it for other reasons. I started supplementing GABA and I am finding it compliments the TMG and Melatonin I take very well. Regarding Melatonin not being okay with RP, actually RP has said some positive things about Melatonin, all about the context isn’t it, I think he said 1mg for sleep was safe. Melatonin is a potent inhibitor of lipid peroxidation so I doubt that if it were increasing free fatty acids that would be dangerous... I also doubt it really does do that under normal conditions.

There are countless studies showing the value of melatonin on glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity. Here is one for example: Melatonin secretion and the incidence of type 2 diabetes

“Several lines of evidence suggest that melatonin may have a role in glucose metabolism. Ingestion of melatonin had a protective effect against the onset of diabetes in diabetes-prone rats with improvements also seen in the animals’ cholesterol and triglyceride levels, relative to controls.6-8 In several large genome-wide association studies, single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) in the type B melatonin receptor (MTNR1B) were associated with higher fasting glucose levels, higher hemoglobin A1c (HbA1c) and increased incidence of gestational and type 2 diabetes.9-11 Among these SNPs, those which cause loss of function of the melatonin receptor were associated with the highest incidence of type 2 diabetes.5 While the effect of endogenous melatonin on glucose metabolism in humans is unknown, the animal data and human genetic studies suggest that either low melatonin secretion or reduced melatonin signaling can impair insulin sensitivity and lead to type 2 diabetes.“

Melatonin also protects against nitric oxide. Sounds pretty peaty to me. Melatonin and nitric oxide. - PubMed - NCBI

Making sure your electrolytes are all in balance is important to avoiding the rebound or stimulating effects some get from taurine and glycine.
 

whodathunkit

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I haven't read this whole thread but wanted to chime in that I have had VERY good results with gelatin over the last couple of years, very noticeable in the last 6 months. I use 1-2 tablespoons of Great Lakes per day (melted and briefly boiled in decaf coffee, with grassfed cream, no sugar), and also a cup or two of oxtail / bone broth per day. It's a staple for me now, for the rest of my life. Huge fan.

Consistent, long-term gelatin intake has REALLY improved my skin. I no longer get flaky heels even if I'm not doing manual maintenance with the foot paddle. All skin everywhere is noticeably thicker and firmer, and has a nice, glowy, creamy look to it. People comment on a regular basis about how great my skin looks. Wrinkles around my eyes are diminished. Crepiness everywhere from weight loss is diminishing. Light inflammation across the bridge of my nose, which had been a permanent presence for over a decade, is gone. I know all this is in large measure the gelatin because that's the only long-term thing I'm doing differently from a decade past that could make this kind of difference, especially in my feet. It's also had a beneficial effect on my digestion and bowels.

I put a friend with chronic arthritis and inflammatory problems from old sports injuries onto it. He's been doing same as me (Great Lakes + broth) for only three months and just told me the other day that the chronic swelling and pain from his shattered ankle that have plagued him for decades is almost completely gone. He couldn't believe it. He's also upped his magnesium intake and his vitamin C intake to complement the gelatin. These are the only things he's done differently in his lifestyle.

I had a lot of problems with gelatin for a long time, though. It was years before I could work it in as a diet staple. It would cause my uterine fibroids to swell and cause me bowel issues. It took a long time for me to get used to it. Caused my friend bowel issues, too, until he reduced his does of Great Lakes. So I now believe the problems people experience with gelatin tend to be because 1) we go overboard with it in the beginning and 2) because of it's effects on estrogen and possibly serotonin. I don't remember all the mechanisms I read about but do know that (for example) when estrogen is flushed from our cells in the way glycine is supposed to do, high amounts of circulating estrogen have a bad effect on the immune system and also bowels. These are problems of too much glycine at one time and also maybe impaired liver function to metabolize estrogen (or other toxins).

Especially when starting out with gelatin we also maybe need more of the things that complement it and help it do its job like vitamin C, vitamin A, vitamin D, MK-4, mag, etc.

My advice is to go very slow with Great Lakes at first...no more than half tablespoon per day for several weeks to see how you do. Then increase slowly to no more than 2 tablespoons per day. Broth is better but can be a PITA to cook and gets expensive when it goes fast so I split my gelatin intake between the Great Lakes and broth. It's a good combo.

I've seen people post on here that they are attempting to get like 60-70% of their protein intake from gelatin on a 100 gram per day regimen. I jumped on that bandwagon for a while and it's not good. We just don't need that much. 20-40 grams per day is fine.

Taurine supps with gelatin definitely helps me produce more bile (as evidenced by stool color and motility) but it causes me sleep issues even in very small amounts so I just don't do it any more. I think I'm getting enough taurine from food sources and that my bile / gallbladder / liver issues will resolve eventually as they become healthier from the gelatin and better overall diet. They're so much better than they were it's almost a miracle.

Watch out for melatonin. My experience is that supplemental form and especially too much of the supplemental form is not good for us. I was on it for a long time and experienced no improvement in my blood sugar issues, and it even began to interfere with my sleep.

Just my $0.02. :)
 
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Rand56

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Taurine gives me insomnia. Seems to have a buildup effect with me. I can take as little as 500 mg's a day, and wham, by the third night insomnia hits.
 

Mauritio

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@Mauritio this is Peat's answer when I asked him about gelatin: "Mostly I get gelatin from things like ox-tail soup, but I use a little gelatin from Great Lakes Gelatin."
Thanks man. chicken breast is surprisingly low in tryptophan! I guess what people complain about is the highish arginin content and high glutamic acid which can be too exicting but there is a difference to normal l-glutamin IIRC , kind of confusing...
I have been Emailing a chemistry /lab-shop for lab grade glycine and asked them about its purity maybe that'll work ...
 

Mauritio

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I haven't read this whole thread but wanted to chime in that I have had VERY good results with gelatin over the last couple of years, very noticeable in the last 6 months. I use 1-2 tablespoons of Great Lakes per day (melted and briefly boiled in decaf coffee, with grassfed cream, no sugar), and also a cup or two of oxtail / bone broth per day. It's a staple for me now, for the rest of my life. Huge fan.

Consistent, long-term gelatin intake has REALLY improved my skin. I no longer get flaky heels even if I'm not doing manual maintenance with the foot paddle. All skin everywhere is noticeably thicker and firmer, and has a nice, glowy, creamy look to it. People comment on a regular basis about how great my skin looks. Wrinkles around my eyes are diminished. Crepiness everywhere from weight loss is diminishing. Light inflammation across the bridge of my nose, which had been a permanent presence for over a decade, is gone. I know all this is in large measure the gelatin because that's the only long-term thing I'm doing differently from a decade past that could make this kind of difference, especially in my feet. It's also had a beneficial effect on my digestion and bowels.

I put a friend with chronic arthritis and inflammatory problems from old sports injuries onto it. He's been doing same as me (Great Lakes + broth) for only three months and just told me the other day that the chronic swelling and pain from his shattered ankle that have plagued him for decades is almost completely gone. He couldn't believe it. He's also upped his magnesium intake and his vitamin C intake to complement the gelatin. These are the only things he's done differently in his lifestyle.

I had a lot of problems with gelatin for a long time, though. It was years before I could work it in as a diet staple. It would cause my uterine fibroids to swell and cause me bowel issues. It took a long time for me to get used to it. Caused my friend bowel issues, too, until he reduced his does of Great Lakes. So I now believe the problems people experience with gelatin tend to be because 1) we go overboard with it in the beginning and 2) because of it's effects on estrogen and possibly serotonin. I don't remember all the mechanisms I read about but do know that (for example) when estrogen is flushed from our cells in the way glycine is supposed to do, high amounts of circulating estrogen have a bad effect on the immune system and also bowels. These are problems of too much glycine at one time and also maybe impaired liver function to metabolize estrogen (or other toxins).

Especially when starting out with gelatin we also maybe need more of the things that complement it and help it do its job like vitamin C, vitamin A, vitamin D, MK-4, mag, etc.

My advice is to go very slow with Great Lakes at first...no more than half tablespoon per day for several weeks to see how you do. Then increase slowly to no more than 2 tablespoons per day. Broth is better but can be a PITA to cook and gets expensive when it goes fast so I split my gelatin intake between the Great Lakes and broth. It's a good combo.

I've seen people post on here that they are attempting to get like 60-70% of their protein intake from gelatin on a 100 gram per day regimen. I jumped on that bandwagon for a while and it's not good. We just don't need that much. 20-40 grams per day is fine.

Taurine supps with gelatin definitely helps me produce more bile (as evidenced by stool color and motility) but it causes me sleep issues even in very small amounts so I just don't do it any more. I think I'm getting enough taurine from food sources and that my bile / gallbladder / liver issues will resolve eventually as they become healthier from the gelatin and better overall diet. They're so much better than they were it's almost a miracle.

Watch out for melatonin. My experience is that supplemental form and especially too much of the supplemental form is not good for us. I was on it for a long time and experienced no improvement in my blood sugar issues, and it even began to interfere with my sleep.

Just my $0.02. :)

Super interesting , as is stated earlier in this thread . I thought I had an allergic reaction to glycine : puffy eyes , dark , circles and lots of sneezing... in light of your post it might just have been to much for my sluggish liver (minus the sneezing?) ?!

On the other hand gelatin does not give me the same symptoms the negatives from gelatin are more gut related I guess...

btw I am a physical therapist and I wonder how much good I would do if I could get all people to take 10g of gelatin ... but people are so ignorant or I just need to find a way to make it more appealing to them.
The weird thing is they dont hesitate to take every bs that their doctor subscribes them but If teir PT wants them to take sth. that helps their whole body they dont want to:tired:
 

whodathunkit

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I mean gut and bowels. Getting acclimated to gelatin produced a range of symptoms for me, esp. in the gut. Too much will also produce immune symptoms that for me feel like the beginning stages of coming down with a cold or the flu. Immune symptoms can also include sneezing, runny nose, etc., for me.

I hear ya about the getting others to try. My friend is the exception not the rule. My mother has arthritis and some systemic inflammation, but even when I gave her my friend's stellar feedback she's like "I don't like it in coffee and I don't want to go through any short-term symptoms to get acclimated to it." :expressionless: All righty then.
 

Frankdee20

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Taurine gives me insomnia. Seems to have a buildup effect with me. I can take as little as 500 mg's a day, and wham, by the third night insomnia hits.

Something is giving me bad insomnia last few weeks, and it may be the Taurine. I only take 1 -2 grams per day, but also take Magnesium Glycinate, supplying Glycine.
 

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