Taking Alpha GPC/Choline Without Spreading Out The Dose?

Kloppstock

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(I have no idea why i spelled each word in the heading with a big capital letter, cant change it!)

"For dementia patients, clinical trials indicated that four doses daily of 300mg (1200mg per day total) was administered to “relieve cognitive decline.” Furthermore, the article states that the same dosage given to otherwise healthy younger people provided the capability to “prevent scopolamine-related amnesia.” In addition, the article claims that a dose of 600mg before exercising improved both power output and the release of growth hormone. The article also suggests that a good starting point if Alpha GPC is taken for nootropic reasons is a 300mg dose taken once or twice daily (“Dosing Alpha GPC” 2014)."

The problem is that i can't administrate 300 mg at 4 occasions per day longer as things looks like now, so today i tested to give mum two 300 mg pills in a row (nothing happen) but i don't dare yet to give 4 in a row to reach the roof unless i know the worst consequences it could cause...to decide whether it can be worth it, but i cant necessary strand to not give the recommended therapeutical dose, not sure 600 mg of AGPC dose will do anything for Alzheimer's

Since i must pour the capsule into juice (where it doesn't solve completely either) powder waves get smashed onto the cup walls so it will always be some mg less than it should if that makes you feel better :).

What do you know?
 

Koveras

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(I have no idea why i spelled each word in the heading with a big capital letter, cant change it!)

"For dementia patients, clinical trials indicated that four doses daily of 300mg (1200mg per day total) was administered to “relieve cognitive decline.” Furthermore, the article states that the same dosage given to otherwise healthy younger people provided the capability to “prevent scopolamine-related amnesia.” In addition, the article claims that a dose of 600mg before exercising improved both power output and the release of growth hormone. The article also suggests that a good starting point if Alpha GPC is taken for nootropic reasons is a 300mg dose taken once or twice daily (“Dosing Alpha GPC” 2014)."

The problem is that i can't administrate 300 mg at 4 occasions per day longer as things looks like now, so today i tested to give mum two 300 mg pills in a row (nothing happen) but i don't dare yet to give 4 in a row to reach the roof unless i know the worst consequences it could cause...to decide whether it can be worth it, but i cant necessary strand to not give the recommended therapeutical dose, not sure 600 mg of AGPC dose will do anything for Alzheimer's

Since i must pour the capsule into juice (where it doesn't solve completely either) powder waves get smashed onto the cup walls so it will always be some mg less than it should if that makes you feel better :).

What do you know?

Ray and Haidut here generally recommend against strategies that boost acetylcholine as it is an excitatory neurotransmitter that in excess can contribute to excitotoxic processes and produce damage or potentially kill neurons. In degenerative diseases the balance is usually already shifted towards the excitatory side. Most trials of acetylcholine boosting drugs (acetylcholinesterase inhibitors) in alzheimers have failed to produce any positive results.

Progesterone may be much more likely to be therapeutic and works by boosting the inhibitory/quieting processes.
 

whodathunkit

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tl;dr summary: big doses of choline probably do more harm than good, especially if they last for more than a month or so. ACh inhibitors when taking choline are probably not a good idea. Much lower doses of supplemental choline are probably sufficient even for people who are choline deficient in the liver and ACh deficient in the nervous system. Lower doses may take longer to produce effect but are probably safer.

Ray and Haidut here generally recommend against strategies that boost acetylcholine as it is an excitatory neurotransmitter that in excess can contribute to excitotoxic processes and produce damage or potentially kill neurons. In degenerative diseases the balance is usually already shifted towards the excitatory side. Most trials of acetylcholine boosting drugs (acetylcholinesterase inhibitors) in alzheimers have failed to produce any positive results.

Progesterone may be much more likely to be therapeutic and works by boosting the inhibitory/quieting processes.
Yeah, be careful.

I have taken doses comparable to those in the study for months at a time, and end result was not very good. Although I will say that it got very interesting and for a while boosted my motivation and ability to stick with one task, while at the same time also increasing my fuzzy-brainedness, irritability, etc. (basically increased all symptoms of too much acetylcholine (ACh). But then the motivation went away and I was left with all the crappy sides.

And whatever you do, if you decide to experiment with those big doses of supplemental choline, DO NOT simultaneously do acetylcholinesterase (AChE) inhibitors like coffee. Combinbing supplemental choline and AChE inhibitors can have exactly the opposite effect of improving cognition. I've done that, too, and it is Not Recommended. AChE is balances too much ACh in the system and taking things that break down AChE so that it can't break down ACh is not good.

Peat has a lot of interesting and negative things to say scattered throughout his articles about the effects of too much ACh in the system. Advise you get into his articles and read extensively. In light of this I always found his love of coffee to be rather puzzling because it has such a deleterious effect on AChE, especially in people with certain liver issues. Still haven't gotten off my a$$ enough to email him about it, though. I've defaulted to figuring he's all about the balance and listening to your body despite his or anyone else's recommendations that this or that is so good for us. Everyone's different.

FWIW, I do think some of us are deficient in choline and in these cases supplements can help, especially with liver function. If we have compromised digestion for whatever reason, and/or compromised liver function, eating eggs and and other choline rich foods may not be enough. For this reason, and because I had a sort of good result in motivation and ability to stay on task when I was experimenting with choline in the past, I recently started taking a small dose of alpha GPC in the morning. 300mg only. Picked GPC because it has the most choline by weight (40%), and the liver likes choline. The other most popular type of choline (citicholine) is only like 18% choline and works by a different mechanism. I'm taking the GPC more for liver function than for cognitive boost, although IMO cognition is definitely linked to liver function by various mechanisms.

Good luck, @Kloppstock!
 
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Kloppstock

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Thanks both, i could have a lot to reply about and some amateur-thesis about why early onset Alzheimer+progesterone+AChE (already have all 3 active now)+choline
could be a perfect combination....

(btw I have combined 1500 mg ALCAR with AChE for several month on Alzheimer's, but i dunno if ALCAR is really a choline add-on comparable to Alpha GPC would be?.
And generally what i read on internet is that the individual right supplement combination is a way to actually re-vitalize AChE inhibitors after taking it for about 2 years with Alzheimer's.)


...but the most strategic way would be to wait with that painful text of mine
and first see if its ever possible to get a single Alpha GPC into my mums system since i must administrate it through powder, and the only brand i can get in this country are one that's mostly fat soluble only.
And even after testing in boiling oil the liquid becomes to thick with some slimy white islands reminding of Sicily, and you would be surprised what aggressive reaction i get from mum when she have a reason to obsess over coating on her teeth's.
No :) i don't think she even would drink ethanol if that would make powder thinner than oil
 
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whodathunkit

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Alpha GPC is mildly sweet/pleasant tasting, not strong at all. Just put it in her food. She won't know a thing.

That said, if you're giving her more than about 300mg/day it's probably excitotoxic when dosed more than that for more than a month or so. Not Good.

ALCAR in the mix exacerbates everything. Please think twice about giving this to your mother. I was doing ALCAR when I had my worst strung-out reactions to choline. Sometimes it felt like my brain was melting, which likely indicates excitotoxicity (which I didn't realize at the time). That can't be good for anyone with Alzheimer's.
 
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Kloppstock

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Peat advocates in favor anticholinergic drugs for dementia.
That's indeed interesting, cause if you google anticholinergic
(not the same as AChEI, but i realize now how they could benefit from each other)
+Alzheimer's you
will rather only receive suggestions that it increases risk of dementia tight?.

But that doesn't say that it will not weight the autoimmunity in right favour after you have received you dementia, and i have actually questioned the opposite claims myself, cause i had some ideas of anticholinergic preparations from rather far-fetched areas opposite to this Common anticholinergic drugs like Benadryl linked to increased dementia risk - Harvard Health Blog
that instead might work optimal on AD, but placed them into mothball before i could receive a secondary supporter, and that seem to be this Peat, could you link me any articles where
he suggest anticholinergic?.


In Sweden AChEI are being administered to you if you get AD diagnose, they generally stop being effective after 2-3 years (and that's because some kind of limit are reached of either to little or to much, i need to research that more.
But i have read that in southern-Europe Alpha GPC are used as as official alternative or in combination to revitalize a depleted AChEI medication.

I believe this revitalization could possibly only work on certain dementia-forms and at the right! time of the individual decease progression, and in my case, mum have early onset Alzheimer's, and i have read that Acetyl L-carnitine only works good enough on early onset Alzheimer's patients, and that's why i have and will continue to force those ALC-feat into the mathematical equation of the decease weaknesses or strength at any given time, but i have realized through this thread that is why mum shall not use Alpha GPC also.
But ALC combined with both AChEI and anticholinergic is probably a successful synergy, if you will, please post you objections down below :)
 
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Kloppstock

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There is to broad approaches for me to be able to hyper-focus on the anticholinergic trail only in raypeat threads like "Alzheimer's is likely metabolic disorder" cause
yes i can confirm its metabolic, based on :) the live-comment track my mum gave me while she ingested her first spoons of Vitex agnus castus yesterday
 
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ddjd

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I recently started taking a small dose of alpha GPC in the morning. 300mg only. Picked GPC because it has the most choline by weight (40%), and the liver likes choline. The other most popular type of choline (citicholine) is only like 18% choline and works by a different mechanism. I'm taking the GPC more for liver function than for cognitive boost, although IMO cognition is definitely linked to liver function by various mechanisms.
is GPC preferable over phosphatidylcholine?
 

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