Take on HRV as a Health monitoring tool | Associations with Omega-3 - thoughts?

[Doludolu]

Hello,

What is your take on using HRV as a physical - mental health and autonomic nervous system balance assessment tool?

What do you think about multiple high quality studies associating high HRV with reduced morbidity, better physical & mental health, and etc.. ? Interestingly, higher Omega-3 consumption is also associated and proven to exert higher HRV.

Cheers!

 

[yerrag]

Some members use it here. I think the belief is HRV values reflect the autonomic nervous system's activity thru the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system's effect on the heart, and that the heart rate variability, being an expression of balance in the autonomic nervous system, is a measure of health given that stress in its many forms is a stimulus that weighs on the autonomic nervous system greatly.

There are many studies that purportedly show that it is a good measure of health, of which I have read only one or two, just because it takes a lot of effort to read through them because of the jargon and mathematical modeling and computation that I cannot validate nor care to validate. The one or two that is on my pay grade that I read would tell me that it was developed in NASA, but I wasn't sure if this was a marketing stunt to take advantage of our being awed by anything to do with the space program, as for me it has become a tired and worn cliche used by marketers to sell a product.

I did ask Ray Peat about it, but I didn't get to share my email with him about it, as I had my suspicions about it. As HRV is something that has become so popular given our fascination with metrics available with the convenience of wearables. Since I had used a Polar heart rate monitor many, many years ago, with a band strapped around my chest, which is still in use today, and used another metric, built into Polar's watch, in order to run at a pace that optimizes weight loss, only to find out later on thru a NYT health reporter's (Gina Kolata) expose on it being based on a false interpretation of a study, I have become leery of "trusting the science" in these things.

That being said, I still want to give HRV the benefit of the doubt. So I used it for about 3 months using 2 apps that measure HRV. But I can't really shake off or unbelieve the Ray Peat idea that higher heart rate is good, and not bad. But HRV is somehow based on the opposite idea. Ray replied to me on the email that HRV is a fad, which is his way of saying in my interpretation a marketing gimmick, or something that won't like. Like truth or real science. And in using the apps, I observed that when my heart rate goes down, my HRV improves.

But I also don't believe everything is about heart rate being high or low, so I am conflicted about this. I don't believe a higher heart of 85 is tantamount to being more healthy as compared to a heart of 68, which is my median heart rate (the heart rate I would get the most readings of). I believe that at my current state of health, a heart rate of 68 tells me my heart is pumping more effortlessly and efficiently than when my heart rate is at 85. There are many variables involved that aren't measurable in a practical sense that affect the heart rate.

However, it is hard to disprove the idea that an athlete with a very low heart rate of say 45 is very healthy, this being a mainstream idea. No one here in this forum has so far given a good explanation why that is. Not even Ray Peat himself. But because I believe Ray Peat on this, I am not totally on board the HRV bandwagon. It's good that I don't have to spend at all on using HRV as a tool. Have a cellphone, load a free app, and voila - you can measure your HRV.

 

[yerrag]

Interestingly, higher Omega-3 consumption is also associated and proven to exert higher HRV.

If omega-3 consumption as a PUFA lowers your metabolism, and causes your heart rate to lower, and if HRV scores are highly inversely correlated with heart rate, then with omega-3 consumption, you will get higher HRV scores.

 

[Tenglish]

I've tracked HRV on and off for years recently stopping again - probably for good. I definitely goes up when I under eat or take some glucose lowering supplement. This is often a precursor to having a soft tissue injury of some kind. Perhaps that is useful, but its a bit opposite how they would expect it to be used.

 

[Doludolu]

Some members use it here. I think the belief is HRV values reflect the autonomic nervous system's activity thru the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system's effect on the heart, and that the heart rate variability, being an expression of balance in the autonomic nervous system, is a measure of health given that stress in its many forms is a stimulus that weighs on the autonomic nervous system greatly.

There are many studies that purportedly show that it is a good measure of health, of which I have read only one or two, just because it takes a lot of effort to read through them because of the jargon and mathematical modeling and computation that I cannot validate nor care to validate. The one or two that is on my pay grade that I read would tell me that it was developed in NASA, but I wasn't sure if this was a marketing stunt to take advantage of our being awed by anything to do with the space program, as for me it has become a tired and worn cliche used by marketers to sell a product.

I did ask Ray Peat about it, but I didn't get to share my email with him about it, as I had my suspicions about it. As HRV is something that has become so popular given our fascination with metrics available with the convenience of wearables. Since I had used a Polar heart rate monitor many, many years ago, with a band strapped around my chest, which is still in use today, and used another metric, built into Polar's watch, in order to run at a pace that optimizes weight loss, only to find out later on thru a NYT health reporter's (Gina Kolata) expose on it being based on a false interpretation of a study, I have become leery of "trusting the science" in these things.

That being said, I still want to give HRV the benefit of the doubt. So I used it for about 3 months using 2 apps that measure HRV. But I can't really shake off or unbelieve the Ray Peat idea that higher heart rate is good, and not bad. But HRV is somehow based on the opposite idea. Ray replied to me on the email that HRV is a fad, which is his way of saying in my interpretation a marketing gimmick, or something that won't like. Like truth or real science. And in using the apps, I observed that when my heart rate goes down, my HRV improves.

But I also don't believe everything is about heart rate being high or low, so I am conflicted about this. I don't believe a higher heart of 85 is tantamount to being more healthy as compared to a heart of 68, which is my median heart rate (the heart rate I would get the most readings of). I believe that at my current state of health, a heart rate of 68 tells me my heart is pumping more effortlessly and efficiently than when my heart rate is at 85. There are many variables involved that aren't measurable in a practical sense that affect the heart rate.

However, it is hard to disprove the idea that an athlete with a very low heart rate of say 45 is very healthy, this being a mainstream idea. No one here in this forum has so far given a good explanation why that is. Not even Ray Peat himself. But because I believe Ray Peat on this, I am not totally on board the HRV bandwagon. It's good that I don't have to spend at all on using HRV as a tool. Have a cellphone, load a free app, and voila - you can measure your HRV.

Thanks for sharing. Yes I'm interested in it atm doing some research for this topic, and also interested in Oura ring if you have heard about this, which is like a supreme biofeedback tool for HRV , sleep cycles, and can also be used with Airplane mode (low-EMF) or so I heard. So yeah.

 

[yerrag]

Thanks for sharing. Yes I'm interested in it atm doing some research for this topic, and also interested in Oura ring if you have heard about this, which is like a supreme biofeedback tool for HRV , sleep cycles, and can also be used with Airplane mode (low-EMF) or so I heard. So yeah.

If you find HRV to be useful after good thoughtful consideration, the Oura Ring would give you a lot of data on your heart rate throughout the day and compute your HRV and give you a log complete with graphs. It will also track your sleep and give valuable information on your sleep quality. I thunk it also has a motion sensor that uses movement during your sleep for determining your sleep stage ( eg light or deep sleep, REM sleep).

I didn't get one and instead I went with an O2ring. It gives me heart rate and spO2 data and serves my needs better.

 

[aliml]

Anything that stimulates the vagus nerve also increases HRV.

19 Factors That May Stimulate Your Vagus Nerve Naturally - SelfHacked

The vagus nerve helps you rest, digest, and destress. Learn how to activate it with singing, yoga, and other activities.

selfhacked.com

 

[Doludolu]

@yerrag what is the functional difference betwen Oura and O2ring? Which do you think has better quality:price ratio?
I've heard that Oura ring can be used off with Bluetooth, on Airplane mode - which is an important aspect in my opinion ; as the EMF load is greatly reduced. Thoughts on that?

If you find HRV to be useful after good thoughtful consideration, the Oura Ring would give you a lot of data on your heart rate throughout the day and compute your HRV and give you a log complete with graphs. It will also track your sleep and give valuable information on your sleep quality. I thunk it also has a motion sensor that uses movement during your sleep for determining your sleep stage ( eg light or deep sleep, REM sleep).

I didn't get one and instead I went with an O2ring. It gives me heart rate and spO2 data and serves my needs better.wh

 

[yerrag]

@yerrag what is the functional difference betwen Oura and O2ring? Which do you think has better quality:price ratio?
I've heard that Oura ring can be used off with Bluetooth, on Airplane mode - which is an important aspect in my opinion ; as the EMF load is greatly reduced. Thoughts on that?

Oura measures only heart rate and maybe movement. It is a small unobtrusive ring you can wear all day and night. You can get heart rate, HRV, and sleep quality info.

O2ring measures heart rate and spO2. It doesn't measure HRV no sleep quality. It is a bigger piece, and it is cheaper as well.

Both can be used without any connectivity. But when you need to sync, you will need Bluetooth. Both can be on airplane mode with bluetooth enabled.

 

[Doludolu]

Oura measures only heart rate and maybe movement. It is a small unobtrusive ring you can wear all day and night. You can get heart rate, HRV, and sleep quality info.

O2ring measures heart rate and spO2. It doesn't measure HRV no sleep quality. It is a bigger piece, and it is cheaper as well.

Both can be used without any connectivity. But when you need to sync, you will need Bluetooth. Both can be on airplane mode with bluetooth enabled.

I see, thanks.
So do you need the Bluetooth be enabled always or just when syncing/transporting data? I mean using it always on airplane mode would make sense to reduce EMF. But Bluetooth is still very unhealthy for the body ; you don't need to constantly turn it on , yes? Only occasionally ?

 

[yerrag]

I see, thanks.
So do you need the Bluetooth be enabled always or just when syncing/transporting data? I mean using it always on airplane mode would make sense to reduce EMF. But Bluetooth is still very unhealthy for the body ; you don't need to constantly turn it on , yes? Only occasionally ?

Only when I want to sync data collected by the ring with the app on the phone.

 

[Doludolu]

Only when I want to sync data collected by the ring with the app on the phone.

Hello, @yerrag

just with the Sizing I have trouble making a decision
Size 12 on my index finger goes quite tightly and it takes about 20-30 sec to put it off (I need to push it quite strongly, because my finger are quite thick and knuckle (joint) is a bit bigger than the whole finger it self)
While Size 13 fits very comfortably but as in the video it's said that moving ring is supposed to move the skin and fit slightly more tightly. That's not the case with this option... I can put it immediately and also take it off in 2-3 seconds, whereas with Size 12 it takes ~20-30 sec and quite some effort to actually take it off.

Seems that something like 12.5 would be my size so I'm not sure how to proceed. New posts

For data management and accuracy it's probably better if it fits more tightly than loose.. ? Could any of you give some guidance and advice in terms for the size?

 

[yerrag]

Hello, @yerrag

just with the Sizing I have trouble making a decision
Size 12 on my index finger goes quite tightly and it takes about 20-30 sec to put it off (I need to push it quite strongly, because my finger are quite thick and knuckle (joint) is a bit bigger than the whole finger it self)
While Size 13 fits very comfortably but as in the video it's said that moving ring is supposed to move the skin and fit slightly more tightly. That's not the case with this option... I can put it immediately and also take it off in 2-3 seconds, whereas with Size 12 it takes ~20-30 sec and quite some effort to actually take it off.

Seems that something like 12.5 would be my size so I'm not sure how to proceed. New posts

For data management and accuracy it's probably better if it fits more tightly than loose.. ? Could any of you give some guidance and advice in terms for the size?

Is this about the Oura? I haven't used an Oura so I'm the wrong person to ask. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.