T4 supplementation and its effect on body temperatures

bennyha

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I had a question regarding taking exogenous T4 in the form of straight T4 or NDT and its effects on body temperature.

A year ago or so I came across the blog of a guy who focused on bringing up body temperatures. He said that taking T4 (either straight or just NDT) would put a "cap" on the body temperature at 98 degrees after 1 month supplementing. He said that even though it was helpful in bringing up low temps, that in resting situations the temp couldn't get past 98 degrees. He went on to explain why but I can't remember his explanation. He told me to look around and I would find the same thing. I remember coming across an article that Mary Shoman (from Stop the Thyroid Madness) saying how she couldn't get her temps all the way up to 98.6 but only up to 98. Then I tried it on myself (I have extremely low T3) for 2 months and found that my resting temps indeed couldn't get up past 98 degrees.

I figured I would have read about this somewhere prior. Have any of you guys and gals heard of this before?

For you who have been taking NDT for a period of time, have you find this to be true?

In reading others posts, I've never seen a mention of it. But he was adamant that it was indeed true and it was a reason not to take it.

I guess I'm just curious if anyone else has heard this. Thanks guys and gals!
 

tara

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:welcome bennyha

I must have missed your earlier post.
Personally, I think it is generally a good idea to give improving nutrition a chance before starting to supplement. Sometimes changing diet is enough to make quite a difference. Even when it's not, you still need good nutrition to support thyroid supplementation, or you risk worsening stress and deficiencies, and confusing the picture. Do you want to post a run down of what and how much you are eating lately?

I have not supplemented NDT or T4, so I don't speak from experience of these, only from reading.
There is a big difference between NDT and straight T4. NDT usually has a T3:T4 ration of about 1:4. Peat has said most people who need supplementation do better with some T3 rather than just straigh T4. He says the optimum ratio varies from person to person, but for most people it is somewhere between 1:4 and 1:2. So for some people NDT is probably fine, but for others it could be better to have a bit more T3.

Since you come from a low-carb history, I would expect it to take a while for your system to adapt back to using carbs efficiently again.

Resting temps at 98 deg F doesn't seem that bad. I wish mine would reliably stay that high. I have read of people who got their temps up from chronically low to 99ish deg primarily using diet (not necessarily saying everyone can do this, just that it isn't true that no one can).

I don't think you mention how much NDT you have been supplementing. Generally, I think it is wise to approach supplementing anything with T4 in it slowly, starting with a small amount and only increasing every 2-4 weeks, because the T4 has a long half life and it takes a while for the levels to build up in the system. If you overshoot too far, I think that's one way you can get difficulties with too much rT3, which in some circumstances can limit metabolism (and temps).
 

youngandold

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T4 can't put a cap or anything that's BS to sell NDT.

First off you should get lab tests to see where you stand.
At least get TSH, free T3, free T4.
Taking any extra thyroid no matter if T3, T4 or NDT without lab tests is asking for trouble.
You can even end up in ER or dead or disabled from a stroke. Google thyroidd storm.
 

tara

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youngandold said:
post 110626 T4 can't put a cap or anything that's BS to sell NDT.
There are potential problems with T4 only supplementation under some conditions. One Peat has described is that when brain levels of T4 get too high, the brain levels of T3 can go down too low. This can cause serious problems.

youngandold said:
post 110626 Taking any extra thyroid no matter if T3, T4 or NDT without lab tests is asking for trouble.
You can even end up in ER or dead or disabled from a stroke. Google thyroidd storm.

I agree that excess can be dangerous, and in extreme it can be deadly. I didn't mention it above, but I agree with you that excessive thyroid itself, not just downregulation, is also a potential hazard with careless or unaware supplementation. Some people get impatient and take large quantities quickly, and I too get concerned about that sometimes.

Lab tests give data that can be useful. But even without lab tests, I think temperature and pulse along with signs and symptoms can be useful indicators, and maybe sometimes sufficient. As I understand it, thyroid storm always involves high body temps.
I think NDT used to be prescribed on clinical signs and symptoms before these lab tests were available. By using small, slow increments and rigorous monitoring of temps and pulse, I think one can probably avoid getting into dangerous territory. As long as temps are below 37 deg, and you only increment by 1/4 grain NDT at intervals of 3 or 4 weeks or more, I think it is unlikely to cause thyroid storm-like problems. Or 1-2mcg T3, repeated as needed but only if temps are low - don't keep adding more once temps are up to normal.

A problem can arise if people don't realise T4 has a long half life, and they increase to higher doses in less than two weeks. Once they realise they have taken too much, it can take a while for it to go down again even after they stop supplementing. Or if they take 25mcg T3 in one go without knowing if this is needed. The slow release T3 formulations are apparently not that reliable about how they release.

Another possible way to get an excess thyroid problem, that Peat has mentioned, is to start supplementing progesterone while there is a large goiter. The progesterone can knock down the estrogen, and allow the thyroid gland to release a lot of its stored hormone too quickly, causing a temporary thyroid storm. Peat recommends avoiding this by addressing the thyroid first, before beginning progesterone, if there is a large goiter. But if it is just mild temporary hyperthyroid, he says many people enjoy it.

One suggestion for mitigating the risk of mild thyroid storm risk was to have raw cabbage juice at hand to slow things down if needed.

One thing (amongst many) that I think distinguishes Peat's approach to many drs is that Peat holds out the expectation that people will pay attention to what is happening tin their body - measure temps, pulse, notice how things affect them. Whereas drs often expect their patients to just take the drs word and take the prescribed medicine 'compliantly' without exercising their own observations and judgement.
 
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answersfound

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Plenty of people I know have had their thyroids removed (probably from years of dental X-rays) and they use Synthroid. I get it, Synthroid is not ideal, but I think it comes down to liver health. If these Synthroid users have good liver health they should be fine. I can't really blame conventional medicine for objecting to a t4/t3 medication. Can you imagine the chaos of dealing with people adjusting to thyroid medication with t3? People would end up in the ER every day and it would be madness.
 

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