T4 Solved Everything For A While But Then Made Me Hyperthyroid

[Opioidus]

Hey folks, I'm a 31 year old male suffering from severe fatigue and ADHD like symptoms for as long as I can remember. But lately the fatigue is getting much worse, mentally and physically I don't wake up until late in the afternoon, and I find it very difficult to do my daily activities. I took a battery of tests last week and everything came back normal, even optimal. Very high testosterone with low conversion to estrogen, normal tsh, t3 and t4.. Everything looked good but I still feel 95 years old.

I decided to try t3 and t4 on my own since I had read that in the past doctors used to treat the symptoms with synthetic thyroid regardless of lab results. I took 8 mcg of levothyroxine and immediately I felt relief. High energy, more focused, mora social. But after a couple of days I started showing hyperthyroid symptoms, like insane appettite (4000+ calories and still hungry), burning eyes and urinary issues. And after that the effects started to diminish as well.

So I'm really confused. Here is some additional information about my condition:
- I feel much better at night, it's like I wake up at 10 pm
- I have a really hard time putting on muscle even though I lift like a mad man and have very high t levels
- My ADHD does not respond to stimulants at all. Methylphenidate and Adderall only give me a headache. SSRIs don't work either. Anything that works with serotonin or dopamine doesn't do anything for me, but norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors help me veyy much, even at extremely low doses they still give me a boost in mood, attention span and confidence.
- b6 tends to help a bit, but it causes neuropathic pain after a couple of days.
- I also have urinary issues, it's hard to start and then it ends abruptly, my stream is weakened as well and I have post voiding dribble. My PSA is negative and my prostate is at the highest "normal range" size.
- I have a resistant ringworm infection on my face and scalp which is under control with ketoconazole shampoo but I can't tolerate three to six months of oral fluconazole to cure it.
- I'm always cold. I'm like a walkung corpse. I never sweat. My joints hurt and I always have dark circles around my eyes even if I sleep for 12 hours.
- my diet is standard, I don't avoid anything but I don't indulge excessively either.

So there you go. If anyone has any advice for me I'd really appreciate it. T4 made me feel like how normal humans are meant to feel for a couple of days, but then it took it away. Knowing how strong I can be and then having it yanked away has made me depressed too.

 

[Opioidus]

Oh I forgot to say that a couple of years ago I had a similar remission period using folinic acid, but that stopped working as well.

 

[Lokzo]

norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors help me veyy much, even at extremely low doses they still give me a boost in mood, attention span and confidence.

Have you tried Muira puama?

 

[Opioidus]

Have you tried Muira puama?

Thank you for your reply. No I have not, I will put it on my list of things to try. Does it primarily affect norepinephrine?

 

[ddjd]

Oh I forgot to say that a couple of years ago I had a similar remission period using folinic acid, but that stopped working as well.

this thread is worth reading with regards to folinic acid

Attention Freddd: MTHFS deficiency

 

[Opioidus]

this thread is worth reading with regards to folinic acid

Attention Freddd: MTHFS deficiency

Thank you for the link. That seems very technical and complicated. I felt very good on folinic acid initially but then I had a severe crash that made me even worse. I cannot tolerate anything with Folate in it, methyfolate gives me suicidal ideation, I've taken it only twice and it makes me so depressed that I start thinking about ending it all. That's why I tried folinic acid to begin with.

Methyl b12 doesn't do much for me either. I've never tried glutathione but Methionine does give me a very slight burst of energy. The problem with anything that boosts my energy in this way is the crash that comes afterwards.

 

[nbznj]

- I have a really hard time putting on muscle even though I lift like a mad man and have very high t levels

You’re probably massively overtrained to begin with. “Lifting like a mad man” is ALWAYS biting back guys right in the nutsack. Reddit/testosterone is chock full of overtrained males, obsessive compulsive types who diet too hard and stall and wonder what’s up. So that’s one massive source of Cortisol you could fix right there. Look at Dan John’s training style, twice weekly lifting.

A high test / e2 ratio is far from desirable. This screams high SHBG and low T>e2 conversion which is consistent with the overtraining.

I’d supplement B vitamins while you’re letting your stress hormones go down a few levels

 

[Lokzo]

You’re probably massively overtrained to begin with. “Lifting like a mad man” is ALWAYS biting back guys right in the nutsack. Reddit/testosterone is chock full of overtrained males, obsessive compulsive types who diet too hard and stall and wonder what’s up. So that’s one massive source of Cortisol you could fix right there. Look at Dan John’s training style, twice weekly lifting.

A high test / e2 ratio is far from desirable. This screams high SHBG and low T>e2 conversion which is consistent with the overtraining.

I’d supplement B vitamins while you’re letting your stress hormones go down a few levels

Can relate!! I need to dial down my training, but I get so bored and restless if I don't do some sort of intense activity at least 5 days a week. No wonder why my cortisol is in the drain.

 

[Opioidus]

You’re probably massively overtrained to begin with. “Lifting like a mad man” is ALWAYS biting back guys right in the nutsack. Reddit/testosterone is chock full of overtrained males, obsessive compulsive types who diet too hard and stall and wonder what’s up. So that’s one massive source of Cortisol you could fix right there. Look at Dan John’s training style, twice weekly lifting.

A high test / e2 ratio is far from desirable. This screams high SHBG and low T>e2 conversion which is consistent with the overtraining.

I’d supplement B vitamins while you’re letting your stress hormones go down a few levels

Thank you for the advice man I appreciate it. Maybe you're right, I lift at least four times a week, do kickboxing too at least three times a week. But rest doesn't make me feel better, it kinda makes me feel worse. I haven't been to the gym in three days for example and I still feel like crap.

B complexes do make me feel much better, but that inner exhaustion never goes away. How much b vitamins do you suggest I take? Will I benefit from Benfotiamin?

 

[Opioidus]

One issue I have with b complexes is that they give me severe neuropathic pain within one or two days. I thought it was because of pyroxidin so I bought some P5p instead but that causes the same issue. Supplementing extra b12 doesn't help either. I suspect it may be a defiency of some kind. If I could take the b complex without pain it would made my life 80% better.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

One issue I have with b complexes is that they give me severe neuropathic pain within one or two days. I thought it was because of pyroxidin so I bought some P5p instead but that causes the same issue. Supplementing extra b12 doesn't help either. I suspect it may be a defiency of some kind. If I could take the b complex without pain it would made my life 80% better.

Try supplementing all the b-vitamins but avoid b6 for now.

 

[thomas00]

Hey folks, I'm a 31 year old male suffering from severe fatigue and ADHD like symptoms for as long as I can remember. But lately the fatigue is getting much worse, mentally and physically I don't wake up until late in the afternoon, and I find it very difficult to do my daily activities. I took a battery of tests last week and everything came back normal, even optimal. Very high testosterone with low conversion to estrogen, normal tsh, t3 and t4.. Everything looked good but I still feel 95 years old.

I decided to try t3 and t4 on my own since I had read that in the past doctors used to treat the symptoms with synthetic thyroid regardless of lab results. I took 8 mcg of levothyroxine and immediately I felt relief. High energy, more focused, mora social. But after a couple of days I started showing hyperthyroid symptoms, like insane appettite (4000+ calories and still hungry), burning eyes and urinary issues. And after that the effects started to diminish as well.

So I'm really confused. Here is some additional information about my condition:
- I feel much better at night, it's like I wake up at 10 pm
- I have a really hard time putting on muscle even though I lift like a mad man and have very high t levels
- My ADHD does not respond to stimulants at all. Methylphenidate and Adderall only give me a headache. SSRIs don't work either. Anything that works with serotonin or dopamine doesn't do anything for me, but norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors help me veyy much, even at extremely low doses they still give me a boost in mood, attention span and confidence.
- b6 tends to help a bit, but it causes neuropathic pain after a couple of days.
- I also have urinary issues, it's hard to start and then it ends abruptly, my stream is weakened as well and I have post voiding dribble. My PSA is negative and my prostate is at the highest "normal range" size.
- I have a resistant ringworm infection on my face and scalp which is under control with ketoconazole shampoo but I can't tolerate three to six months of oral fluconazole to cure it.
- I'm always cold. I'm like a walkung corpse. I never sweat. My joints hurt and I always have dark circles around my eyes even if I sleep for 12 hours.
- my diet is standard, I don't avoid anything but I don't indulge excessively either.

So there you go. If anyone has any advice for me I'd really appreciate it. T4 made me feel like how normal humans are meant to feel for a couple of days, but then it took it away. Knowing how strong I can be and then having it yanked away has made me depressed too.

I'm confused. You say you took t4 and it solved it all....but you also say "I decided to try t3 and t4 on my own".

So did you take t3 as well as t4? or just t4?

t4-only is the worst way to attempt to treat hypothyroidism. It doesn't work for the most part and it's dangerous. Have you read Ray's writings on thyroid?

 

[Kingpinguin]

Hey folks, I'm a 31 year old male suffering from severe fatigue and ADHD like symptoms for as long as I can remember. But lately the fatigue is getting much worse, mentally and physically I don't wake up until late in the afternoon, and I find it very difficult to do my daily activities. I took a battery of tests last week and everything came back normal, even optimal. Very high testosterone with low conversion to estrogen, normal tsh, t3 and t4.. Everything looked good but I still feel 95 years old.

I decided to try t3 and t4 on my own since I had read that in the past doctors used to treat the symptoms with synthetic thyroid regardless of lab results. I took 8 mcg of levothyroxine and immediately I felt relief. High energy, more focused, mora social. But after a couple of days I started showing hyperthyroid symptoms, like insane appettite (4000+ calories and still hungry), burning eyes and urinary issues. And after that the effects started to diminish as well.

So I'm really confused. Here is some additional information about my condition:
- I feel much better at night, it's like I wake up at 10 pm
- I have a really hard time putting on muscle even though I lift like a mad man and have very high t levels
- My ADHD does not respond to stimulants at all. Methylphenidate and Adderall only give me a headache. SSRIs don't work either. Anything that works with serotonin or dopamine doesn't do anything for me, but norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors help me veyy much, even at extremely low doses they still give me a boost in mood, attention span and confidence.
- b6 tends to help a bit, but it causes neuropathic pain after a couple of days.
- I also have urinary issues, it's hard to start and then it ends abruptly, my stream is weakened as well and I have post voiding dribble. My PSA is negative and my prostate is at the highest "normal range" size.
- I have a resistant ringworm infection on my face and scalp which is under control with ketoconazole shampoo but I can't tolerate three to six months of oral fluconazole to cure it.
- I'm always cold. I'm like a walkung corpse. I never sweat. My joints hurt and I always have dark circles around my eyes even if I sleep for 12 hours.
- my diet is standard, I don't avoid anything but I don't indulge excessively either.

So there you go. If anyone has any advice for me I'd really appreciate it. T4 made me feel like how normal humans are meant to feel for a couple of days, but then it took it away. Knowing how strong I can be and then having it yanked away has made me depressed too.

Have you checked iron status? Dysregulation is heavily linked to fatigue and adhd symptoms. Also lowers bodys ability to convert T4 to T3. Suspecting low iron in you. Do you have restless legs, cold fingers and toes?

 

[Opioidus]

I'm confused. You say you took t4 and it solved it all....but you also say "I decided to try t3 and t4 on my own".

So did you take t3 as well as t4? or just t4?

t4-only is the worst way to attempt to treat hypothyroidism. It doesn't work for the most part and it's dangerous. Have you read Ray's writings on thyroid?

Hello and thank you for your help.
I tried T4 first, it gave me a boost in energy, mood, confidence and sex drive. It was the best week of my life on this earth. I was taking 1/4th of a 25 mcg pill. Then I made the stupid mistake of increasing the dose to 1/2 of that same pill and, everything went to the crapper. I had an extreme in appetite and gained 5 kilograms and had to give it up.

I've been trying to recreate this experience for a couple of months now to no avail. I read Ray Peat's writings and started trying t3 alone and then added t4 as well but it's not showing the same effects. Only the increase in appetite, my energy keeps dwindling.

Today I visited my doctor to review my new tests and apparently I have polycythemia, my bonemarrow is producing too much hemoglobin. I gave 300 ml of blood today and he said I might start to feel better. I'm pretty devastated by this news since it has probably shortened my life span in half.

 

[Opioidus]

Have you checked iron status? Dysregulation is heavily linked to fatigue and adhd symptoms. Also lowers bodys ability to convert T4 to T3. Suspecting low iron in you. Do you have restless legs, cold fingers and toes?

Hello Kingpinguin, thank you for your response. As I mentioned above I was diagnosed with polycythemia today and gave 300 ml of blood, my bone marrow produces much more hemoglobin in my blood than is needed and I must give blood regularly to mediate it. My Iron level are higher than normal as well. The doc said he wants a test to see the shape of my blood cells as well since they may be disfigured.

 

[thomas00]

Hello and thank you for your help.
I tried T4 first, it gave me a boost in energy, mood, confidence and sex drive. It was the best week of my life on this earth. I was taking 1/4th of a 25 mcg pill. Then I made the stupid mistake of increasing the dose to 1/2 of that same pill and, everything went to the crapper. I had an extreme in appetite and gained 5 kilograms and had to give it up.

I've been trying to recreate this experience for a couple of months now to no avail. I read Ray Peat's writings and started trying t3 alone and then added t4 as well but it's not showing the same effects. Only the increase in appetite, my energy keeps dwindling.

what dose have you tried with the t3 combined with the t4? do you get an increase in temperature? and which brand of t3 are using?

Today I visited my doctor to review my new tests and apparently I have polycythemia, my bonemarrow is producing too much hemoglobin. I gave 300 ml of blood today and he said I might start to feel better. I'm pretty devastated by this news since it has probably shortened my life span in half.

So sorry you have this to deal with...have you emailed Ray to ask him his views on the topic? I see there is another thread on the forum about it

Polycythemia Vera Help

 

[Kingpinguin]

Hello Kingpinguin, thank you for your response. As I mentioned above I was diagnosed with polycythemia today and gave 300 ml of blood, my bone marrow produces much more hemoglobin in my blood than is needed and I must give blood regularly to mediate it. My Iron level are higher than normal as well. The doc said he wants a test to see the shape of my blood cells as well since they may be disfigured.

Ok this is likely the cause of your problems.
Like i mentioned iron is linked to fatigue and adhd problems and both overload and under utility will cause these problems.

 

[Opioidus]

One other thing that makes me feel much better is activated charcoal, 1 gram before bed makes me much better the next day, but my doctor dismissed this as irrelevant or placebo and told me not to take it since apparently it can cause intestinal blockages?! I think there maybe be something to it.

what dose have you tried with the t3 combined with the t4? do you get an increase in temperature? and which brand of t3 are using?

Very small doses, less than 5 micrograms of each, if I take more then my appetite shoots through the roof. I use a generic locally produced brand. I always feel feverish but my body temperature never goes higher than 36.5(97.7f), it's usually around 36(96. 8f)or lower. I'm kinda scared of aspirin because we have a family history of bleeding disorders.

So sorry you have this to deal with...have you emailed Ray to ask him his views on the topic? I see there is another thread on the forum about it

Thank you my friend, you are very kind. I haven't emailed him, does he answer questions from random people online? That's awesome I will send him an email. I will also read through that thread as well, seems very helpful. Thank you again.

 

[Opioidus]

Ok this is likely the cause of your problems.
Like i mentioned iron is linked to fatigue and adhd problems and both overload and under utility will cause these problems.

Thanks, I do hope I get better with blood donations.

 

[thomas00]

does he answer questions from random people online?

Yep. He's answered plenty of questions I've put to him. Even ones that were quite silly and obvious and retrospect.