T3 Cynomel Is Making Me Really Tired

MarkusToe

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I started taking Cynomel about 2 weeks ago. I cut the tablets into 6 pieces and for the first week only took one piece with breakfast. The next week I added another piece when having lunch. Now I notice that I get really sleepy after the second piece. Could this mean that the dosage is too high?

I'm following a peat inspired diet for about a year now. My pulse has always been very low. At the moment its 62 and temp is 36.3 C. Could it be that the T3 is lowering my pulse?
 

MarkusToe

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I tried to follow peats advice to start with t3 first to see what effect it has and then switch to Cynoplus. Do you have any experience with t3/t4 supplementation?
 

ilovethesea

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RP:
I occasionally see that happen [T3 WILL CAUSE LOW TEMP/PULSE]; sometimes people have had their pulse rate decrease 40 or 50 beats per minute. The temperature of your fingers, toes, and nose helps to interpret the balance between stress and thyroid; your fingers should be less cold as your metabolic rate comes up. In extreme hypothyroidism, the hands and feet can be very cold while the oral temperature looks o.k.; then as the metabolic rate increases, the difference between fingers and mouth decreases.

I take NDT which has T3 and T4. The typical starting dose is one grain, for 2 months then adjust.

You may want to talk to Jenn, just learned on another thread that she takes T3 only.
 
J

j.

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MarkusToe said:
I tried to follow peats advice to start with t3 first to see what effect it has and then switch to Cynoplus.

I see, sorry, I'm not familiar with that approach. Are you supposed to take t3 only for two weeks? Seems a little long.
 

iLoveSugar

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j. said:
MarkusToe said:
I tried to follow peats advice to start with t3 first to see what effect it has and then switch to Cynoplus.

I see, sorry, I'm not familiar with that approach. Are you supposed to take t3 only for two weeks? Seems a little long.


J, maybe you could email RP and collect some thoughts. Ray does often recommend T3 alone, and many times much longer than 2 weeks. To him, it's more accurate, more effective, etc. The ultimate goal is to eventually get to a T3/T4 combo, but for people with issues, many times T3 alone is best to start with.
 

MarkusToe

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j. said:
MarkusToe said:
I tried to follow peats advice to start with t3 first to see what effect it has and then switch to Cynoplus.

I see, sorry, I'm not familiar with that approach. Are you supposed to take t3 only for two weeks? Seems a little long.

I was following this quote from peat:

"Try a sixth of a 25 mcg cynomel tablet at first, and watch for the effects in the first two hours. According to what you notice, you could continue that once a day, or twice a day, for about 10 days, then you could try some with each meal, for another week. #2 and #3: when you find out how the T3 affects you, you could change to the combination (Armour or Thyrolar or Cynoplus); the amounts I mentioned would be similar to 12 mcg of T3 per day."
 
J

j.

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MarkusToe said:
Do you have any experience with t3/t4 supplementation?

I just started taking ERFA 30 mg for days ago. T3/T4 combo seems easier. Just start with up to 1 grain, watch the effects for a few weeks of month, then increase the dose if needed.
 

MarkusToe

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Hm, when I take my oral temperature I have 36.8 C. Pulse is still 70. Maybe I should take only small doses and see what happens?
 
J

j.

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MarkusToe said:
Hm, when I take my oral temperature I have 36.8 C. Pulse is still 70. Maybe I should take only small doses and see what happens?

I don't know, I think few here try T3 only, seems more risky.
 

MarkusToe

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j. said:
MarkusToe said:
Do you have any experience with t3/t4 supplementation?

I just started taking ERFA 30 mg for days ago. T3/T4 combo seems easier. Just start with up to 1 grain, watch the effects for a few weeks of month, then increase the dose if needed.

1 grain would be 60mg? Shouldn't I first check out which ratio of T3/T4 the Cynoplus Tablets have? I think Cynoplus has a 120/30 ratio of T4 and T3, but I couldn't find any official infos. Could anyone confirm this?

"25 mcg of T3 has approximately the activity of a grain (65 mg) of thyroid gland; is ERFA the only one available? A synthetic thyroxine could be combined with the Cynomel. Since the European products aren't necessarily the same as those made elsewhere, and a person's requirements are variable, it's essential to start with small amounts, watching for the effects, including pulse rate and temperature. T4 builds up slowly in the tissues, over about 14 days, but the T3 acts immediately. With any product, a single dose of T3 of about 4 mcg is close to the physiological range; sometimes a smaller amount is enough."

"As long as it's divided so that you don't get a big dose of T3 all at once it should be o.k. to take a total of 25 mcg T3 and 100 of T4.That would be similar to the traditional 2 grain dose of Armour thyroid. A healthy person should produce the equivalent of about four grains per day, so with 2 grains of supplement, or the equivalent, there isn't a risk of over-dosing."
 

ilovethesea

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iLoveSugar said:
J, maybe you could email RP and collect some thoughts. Ray does often recommend T3 alone, and many times much longer than 2 weeks. To him, it's more accurate, more effective, etc. The ultimate goal is to eventually get to a T3/T4 combo, but for people with issues, many times T3 alone is best to start with.

Do you have a source for those claims? I just haven't read anything where he says it's more effective than a combined med, better for people with "issues" or to be on it indefinitely. (I think we all have "issues" -haha)

From http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

Try a sixth of a 25 mcg cynomel tablet at first, and watch for the effects in the first two hours. According to what you notice, you could continue that once a day, or twice a day, for about 10 days, then you could try some with each meal, for another week. #2 and #3: when you find out how the T3 affects you, you could change to the combination (Armour or Thyrolar or Cynoplus); the amounts I mentioned would be similar to 12 mcg of T3 per day.
 
J

j.

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MarkusToe said:
1 grain would be 60mg? Shouldn't I first check out which ratio of T3/T4 the Cynoplus Tablets have? I think Cynoplus has a 120/30 ratio of T4 and T3, but I couldn't find any official infos. Could anyone confirm this?

"25 mcg of T3 has approximately the activity of a grain (65 mg) of thyroid gland; is ERFA the only one available? A synthetic thyroxine could be combined with the Cynomel. Since the European products aren't necessarily the same as those made elsewhere, and a person's requirements are variable, it's essential to start with small amounts, watching for the effects, including pulse rate and temperature. T4 builds up slowly in the tissues, over about 14 days, but the T3 acts immediately. With any product, a single dose of T3 of about 4 mcg is close to the physiological range; sometimes a smaller amount is enough."

"As long as it's divided so that you don't get a big dose of T3 all at once it should be o.k. to take a total of 25 mcg T3 and 100 of T4.That would be similar to the traditional 2 grain dose of Armour thyroid. A healthy person should produce the equivalent of about four grains per day, so with 2 grains of supplement, or the equivalent, there isn't a risk of over-dosing."

The stuff about making you feel really tired happened to other people taking T3 only as well, that's why I would avoid it.

Almost every T3/T4 combo has a ratio of approximately 1:4 T3 to T4.

This website has the ratios and ingredients of a lot of brands: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ar ... er-brands/

Half a grain is about 18 to 20 of T4 and about 4 of T3, the pill typically would be of 30 mg.
 

ilovethesea

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MarkusToe said:
1 grain would be 60mg?

Yes

MarkusToe said:
Shouldn't I first check out which ratio of T3/T4 the Cynoplus Tablets have? I think Cynoplus has a 120/30 ratio of T4 and T3, but I couldn't find any official infos. Could anyone confirm this?

Cynoplus has 30mcg T3 and 120mcg T4

One grain of thyroid has about 35 mcg of T4 and 8 mcg of T3 (or at least Erfa does which is what I take). So, you could divide Cynoplus by 4 to get the equivalent to a one grain starting dose.
 

iLoveSugar

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ilovethesea said:
iLoveSugar said:
J, maybe you could email RP and collect some thoughts. Ray does often recommend T3 alone, and many times much longer than 2 weeks. To him, it's more accurate, more effective, etc. The ultimate goal is to eventually get to a T3/T4 combo, but for people with issues, many times T3 alone is best to start with.

Do you have a source for those claims? I just haven't read anything where he says it's more effective than a combined med, better for people with "issues" or to be on it indefinitely. (I think we all have "issues" -haha)

He tells many people this.

"The liver has to activate T4 for it to work, and if the liver doesn't convert it, extra T4 can lower your gland's activity. When T3 increases after being deficient, it increases your sensitivity to adrenaline, and that can make you anxious, and can stop intestinal action. It takes a few days of continuous T3 action for the adrenaline to adjust down to normal. Dividing a T3 tablet (powder, or small crumbs) into many parts, about one microgram with a meal would be a good place to start. At first, they should be spaced about 8 or 12 hours apart, while you watch for the effects".

"If your liver isn't working efficiently, the T4 part of cynoplus can accumulate, preventing the active T3 from working. Cynomel is just T3, there's no T4 to accumulate, and you can feel the effect quickly. It allows you to adjust the dose faster".

"T3 is basic to the normal metabolic rate. It acts so quickly that your feet, like your heart rate, are important guides to its use".

"If the liver isn't working right, T4 can't work. That's the reason the combination or T3 alone can be so much more consistently effective. T4 is valuable for lowering TSH and for allowing the liver to regulate T3 as needed. T3 is the one that increases energy production, temperature, heart rate, oxygen use, etc".

"When I first used it (T3), I tried one 25 mcg tablet in the morning, and one in the evening. After two or three weeks of doing that, I found that I was becoming extremely hypothyroid in the evening, before I took the second tablet. After experimenting, I found that it was better to take repeated small doses during the day, because the liver produces more enzymes to destroy the excess, and then it keeps excreting it faster, so it becomes necessary to take more to avoid becoming hypothyroid. In the short run, you can tell when you have enough because you feel good, don't have food cravings, have good memory and clear thinking, and feel optimistic".

"It's important to check pulse rate when you take larger amounts of T3; a dose of 8 mcg will usually increase the rate about 30 minutes after it's chewed and swallowed".

"With T3, the effect is quick (starting within a few seconds when you chew it), and decreasing gradually after about two hours, so it's possible, in a fairly short time, to explore the effects of different amounts of it, and the way it accumulates in the body, with increasing effects. It's helpful to keep notes of the exact time, the amount, and heart rate".

"Of course, at the beginning 10 or more (mcg T3) at a time will be going into such an empty body that the bloodstream level hardly reaches normal until after several doses, it's a matter of watching for reactions".

"If your liver isn't working efficiently, the T4 part of cynoplus can accumulate, preventing the active T3 from working. Cynomel is just T3, there's no T4 to accumulate, and you can feel the effect quickly. It allows you to adjust the dose faster".
 

ilovethesea

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Thanks for the quotes :) This has been an interesting discussion.

He's not saying T3 is more effective, he's saying that a *combo* of T3 and T4 is more effective compared to T4 only which is what most people take.

And I still don't follow you... you said you got some benefit from T3 already, so why wouldn't you use that to determine your dose of a combined med? T4 since it builds up in the tissues is going to help you sustain the benefits.

Here's another quote:
Since T3 is used up very quickly, allowing the proinflammatory TSH to rise during the night, it would help if you used Cynoplus at bedtime, instead of Cynomel. If you were taking 10 mcg of cynomel, then a third of a tablet of cynoplus would provide that, as well as the T4 that holds the TSH down longer.
 

jaguar43

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MarkusToe said:
I started taking Cynomel about 2 weeks ago. I cut the tablets into 6 pieces and for the first week only took one piece with breakfast. The next week I added another piece when having lunch. Now I notice that I get really sleepy after the second piece. Could this mean that the dosage is too high?

I'm following a peat inspired diet for about a year now. My pulse has always been very low. At the moment its 62 and temp is 36.3 C. Could it be that the T3 is lowering my pulse?

Ray Peat has said that when taking thyroid, one feels like taking a nap in the afternoon.
 

MarkusToe

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jag2594 said:
MarkusToe said:
I started taking Cynomel about 2 weeks ago. I cut the tablets into 6 pieces and for the first week only took one piece with breakfast. The next week I added another piece when having lunch. Now I notice that I get really sleepy after the second piece. Could this mean that the dosage is too high?

I'm following a peat inspired diet for about a year now. My pulse has always been very low. At the moment its 62 and temp is 36.3 C. Could it be that the T3 is lowering my pulse?

Ray Peat has said that when taking thyroid, one feels like taking a nap in the afternoon.

today it was more like I cant keep my eyes open anymore
 

juanitacarlos

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Markus, what were your regular temps/pulse before starting the T3? Did you have any other hypothyroid symptoms?

Are you tried all day, or just after lunch? Have you been taking your temp on waking, before and after eating etc?
 
J

j.

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Try not taking more than 4 mcg at once. If you take more, your body might try hard to get rid of the T3.
 
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