Switching From NDT To Cynoplus

[Joe Leca]

What is a good way to switch medicines? I've always taken 2 grains NDT (one morning, one night). I found out 1 and a half tablets of Cynoplus is equivalent to that. Should I start slow on the Cynoplus since its new or start taking the equivalent dose right away? Should I take 1 whole tab in the morning and half at night? Or should I take 3 halves during the day?

 

[Jman]

I'm pretty sure 1 tablet of cynoplus is equivalent to 3 grains of NDT. 1 Grain being more or less 10mcg t3 - 40mcg t4. One tab of cynoplus is 30mcg t3 and 120mcg t4.

 

[mrchibbs]

What is a good way to switch medicines? I've always taken 2 grains NDT (one morning, one night). I found out 1 and a half tablets of Cynoplus is equivalent to that. Should I start slow on the Cynoplus since its new or start taking the equivalent dose right away? Should I take 1 whole tab in the morning and half at night? Or should I take 3 halves during the day?

You should absolutely not take a whole tab of cynoplus right away. As a synthetic T3/T4 combo, it is metabolized differently than the entire glandular products (which contains other compounds, calcitonin for example). You can take 2 grains of NDT at once with food and be fine, but not so with synthetic formulas. So make sure you have a good reason to switch, because a synthetic combo isn't better than NDT. It's about convenience, and what you're comfortably with.

As @Jman said above, a tablet of cynoplus is 30mcg T3 - 120 mcg T4. Ray has advised against taking any dose which contains more than 10mcg T3 and even then, it should be 5mcg or less ideally. Since you've taken two grains before, it would make sense to cut the cynoplus tablet in four, and take 2 pieces a day, which gives you a dose of 7.5mcg T3 and 30mcg T4 each.

That could work, 1 in the morning and 1 at night with food. That's 1.5grains. Start with that. If you find your temps going down, add another fourth at lunch, again with food. You'll be slightly more than 2 grains then. (So, 3 fourths not 3 halves)

Taking more than this at a time, will cause T3 to be converted to rT3 and will create a backlog of unconverted T4, which will lower your temps. The only recovery from this is to stop T4 altogether and take just T3 for a week or more (or nothing, which will make you feel like ***t). So, avoid it, and keep your doses at a 4th of a cynoplus at a time (or less).

Personally, I split up the doses even further, by biting down half of a fourth of a cynoplus every couple of hours, thus taking 3.75 mcg T3 and 15mcg T4. So basically my doses are an eighth of a cynoplus, 4 times a day, with some additional T3.

As you can see, it can be a bit more cumbersome than NDT.

 

[Frankdee20]

Which NDT ?

 

[BingDing]

OP, try one and see what happens. It's not going to harm you and it will wear off in a day.

I think in terms of average systemic free T3 and free T4 rather than intake. Measuring that takes an unrealistic amount of lab work to track, so it's a theoretic goal.

RP has said that large amounts of T3 are needed to convert cholesterol to pregnenalone; I assume T3 is consumed in the process so intake of T3/T4 and systemic levels of T3/T4 may not be directly related.

If a person is warm and heart rate is high, they are good!

@Frankdee20 I've used Armour, NP, and Tyromax over long periods of time. They are all about the same IME.

 

[stevrd]

Hi all,

Just to put my 2c in, I can vouch for Thyroid-S, Thiroyd, and T.R. T man thyroid all NTD with all about 7mg T3 and 25-30mg T4 per tablet. I had a chemist perform mass spectrometry on both thyroid S and Thiroyd and he found these levels to be precise and consistent in the samples I sent him. I myself had lab work done on both Thiroyd and Thyroid-S in the past on several occasions and my T3 was elevated and TSH suppressed from my baseline. I can't say enough good things about Thyroid-S, Thiroyd, TR T-Man NDT, and Cytomel - Liothyronine (T3) --Worldwide Free Shipping!. Also if you google "pimp products thyroid" that website you can usually get great deals. I have used all of these and they all produce the same effects.

 

[Shontelle]

You should absolutely not take a whole tab of cynoplus right away. As a synthetic T3/T4 combo, it is metabolized differently than the entire glandular products (which contains other compounds, calcitonin for example). You can take 2 grains of NDT at once with food and be fine, but not so with synthetic formulas. So make sure you have a good reason to switch, because a synthetic combo isn't better than NDT. It's about convenience, and what you're comfortably with.

As @Jman said above, a tablet of cynoplus is 30mcg T3 - 120 mcg T4. Ray has advised against taking any dose which contains more than 10mcg T3 and even then, it should be 5mcg or less ideally. Since you've taken two grains before, it would make sense to cut the cynoplus tablet in four, and take 2 pieces a day, which gives you a dose of 7.5mcg T3 and 30mcg T4 each.

That could work, 1 in the morning and 1 at night with food. That's 1.5grains. Start with that. If you find your temps going down, add another fourth at lunch, again with food. You'll be slightly more than 2 grains then. (So, 3 fourths not 3 halves)

Taking more than this at a time, will cause T3 to be converted to rT3 and will create a backlog of unconverted T4, which will lower your temps. The only recovery from this is to stop T4 altogether and take just T3 for a week or more (or nothing, which will make you feel like ***t). So, avoid it, and keep your doses at a 4th of a cynoplus at a time (or less).

Personally, I split up the doses even further, by biting down half of a fourth of a cynoplus every couple of hours, thus taking 3.75 mcg T3 and 15mcg T4. So basically my doses are an eighth of a cynoplus, 4 times a day, with some additional T3.

As you can see, it can be a bit more cumbersome than NDT.

Hello all!

I’ve been on Tyromax for a month or more and I’m still not feeling the greatest. I love all the other products cortinon, Energin , camphosal. I did manage to get Cynoplus , however don’t know where to start. Any information would be great!!

 

[mrchibbs]

Hello all!

I’ve been on Tyromax for a month or more and I’m still not feeling the greatest. I love all the other products cortinon, Energin , camphosal. I did manage to get Cynoplus , however don’t know where to start. Any information would be great!!

Maybe not the answer you want, but I would stick to TyroMax if I was you. When Broda Barnes used NDT, it took at least 2 months to start seeing satisfying results.

Have you read Hypothyroidism: The unsuspected illness? It's a very important book and I've read it 5 times and everytime I understand more of it. At the core he advises not to be impatient, and stick to slow, steady increase in supplementation.

Did you go slowly? Increasing from 0.25 grains to 0.5 grains, to 0.75 grains to 1 grain, etc. every 2 weeks, tracking your morning temperatures? For most people they need 2 grains daily, along with a very good diet, and sunshine exposure, and regular walking etc, to feel really good.

Cynoplus is much more complicated to dose. So I would keep that as a backup for now. So many people on this forum switch thyroid meds when in fact they need to keep it simple and follow a meticulous approach. Idealabs has a lot of amazing supplements, but it can be a bit of a fool's gold situation, where the more you buy to more you feel like you'll get better, when at the core keeping it simple is important.

I hope this helps you!

 

[Shontelle]

Give thanks

I started with seven drops, then 14 then 20. I totally appreciate your advice and are extremely grateful for it. I will continue with it a little longer and monitor.
I get ample sunshine as I’m a snowbird during the winter months and then head back to Canada in the summer.
I have not read the book yet, my mother owns it so I will borrow :)

one more question- does anyone know if energin should be topical or oral?

 

[mrchibbs]

Give thanks

I started with seven drops, then 14 then 20. I totally appreciate your advice and are extremely grateful for it. I will continue with it a little longer and monitor.
I get ample sunshine as I’m a snowbird during the winter months and then head back to Canada in the summer.
I have not read the book yet, my mother owns it so I will borrow :)

one more question- does anyone know if energin should be topical or oral?

Ok you're doing way too much, too fast. 7 drops is already one grain. At 20 drops, you're taking around 3 grains, which is far more than the vast majority of people need to get therapeutic benefits. Broda Barnes (and Ray) made clear that 2 grains is what is needed by most people.

TyroMax - Liquid Thyroid (NDT), USP

I would recommend going back down to 3 drops a day (roughly 0.5 grains) and then following a schedule like the following one:

-Week 1 : 3 drops a day
-Week 2: 5 drops a day
-Week 3: 7 drops a day
-Week 4: 9 drops a day
-Week 5: 11 drops a day
-Week 6: 12 drops a day
-Week 7: 13 drops a day
-Week 8: 14 drops a day (2 grains)

Monitoring your waking temperatures is important. At the end of the 2 months, you should be close to 98F in the morning when you wake up in bed (provided you have AC, otherwise you temperature is not totally truthful, and then you should test your pulse too upon waking up)

Energin is intended for topical use: Energin - Liquid B-Complex Vitamin Mix

And make sure to read that book ASAP, you can buy a cheap used copy off of amazon

 

[Shontelle]

My waking temp is 36.4 daytime I go between 36.7 and 37. This has been of the last two weeks.

The other problems I’m having is retaining water almost like Edema symptoms (right leg calf ) feeling swollen almost everyday all day.. if I take a walk my hands swell up like balloons... and I know I’m carrying extra weight around inner thighs, lower abdomen, cellulite on stomach which I think is restrictive circulation and back of arms and breast seem larger and sensitive.
I’ll add I haven’t had a menstrual cycle also..

However staying positive and understanding Rome wasn’t built in a day.

I follow RP food protocols for over two years.. almost zero PUFAS and so on.

 

[Shontelle]

Ok you're doing way too much, too fast. 7 drops is already one grain. At 20 drops, you're taking around 3 grains, which is far more than the vast majority of people need to get therapeutic benefits. Broda Barnes (and Ray) made clear that 2 grains is what is needed by most people.

TyroMax - Liquid Thyroid (NDT), USP

I would recommend going back down to 3 drops a day (roughly 0.5 grains) and then following a schedule like the following one:

-Week 1 : 3 drops a day
-Week 2: 5 drops a day
-Week 3: 7 drops a day
-Week 4: 9 drops a day
-Week 5: 11 drops a day
-Week 6: 12 drops a day
-Week 7: 13 drops a day
-Week 8: 14 drops a day (2 grains)

Monitoring your waking temperatures is important. At the end of the 2 months, you should be close to 98F in the morning when you wake up in bed (provided you have AC, otherwise you temperature is not totally truthful, and then you should test your pulse too upon waking up)

Energin is intended for topical use: Energin - Liquid B-Complex Vitamin Mix

And make sure to read that book ASAP, you can buy a cheap used copy off of amazon

 

[Joe Leca]

You should absolutely not take a whole tab of cynoplus right away. As a synthetic T3/T4 combo, it is metabolized differently than the entire glandular products (which contains other compounds, calcitonin for example). You can take 2 grains of NDT at once with food and be fine, but not so with synthetic formulas. So make sure you have a good reason to switch, because a synthetic combo isn't better than NDT. It's about convenience, and what you're comfortably with.

As @Jman said above, a tablet of cynoplus is 30mcg T3 - 120 mcg T4. Ray has advised against taking any dose which contains more than 10mcg T3 and even then, it should be 5mcg or less ideally. Since you've taken two grains before, it would make sense to cut the cynoplus tablet in four, and take 2 pieces a day, which gives you a dose of 7.5mcg T3 and 30mcg T4 each.

That could work, 1 in the morning and 1 at night with food. That's 1.5grains. Start with that. If you find your temps going down, add another fourth at lunch, again with food. You'll be slightly more than 2 grains then. (So, 3 fourths not 3 halves)

Taking more than this at a time, will cause T3 to be converted to rT3 and will create a backlog of unconverted T4, which will lower your temps. The only recovery from this is to stop T4 altogether and take just T3 for a week or more (or nothing, which will make you feel like ***t). So, avoid it, and keep your doses at a 4th of a cynoplus at a time (or less).

Personally, I split up the doses even further, by biting down half of a fourth of a cynoplus every couple of hours, thus taking 3.75 mcg T3 and 15mcg T4. So basically my doses are an eighth of a cynoplus, 4 times a day, with some additional T3.

As you can see, it can be a bit more cumbersome than NDT.

Thanks so much for this. I had the conversion completely wrong. Glad I asked first. I'm only switching to Cynoplus because NDT is outta stock everywhere.

 

[AdoTintor]

You should absolutely not take a whole tab of cynoplus right away. As a synthetic T3/T4 combo, it is metabolized differently than the entire glandular products (which contains other compounds, calcitonin for example). You can take 2 grains of NDT at once with food and be fine, but not so with synthetic formulas. So make sure you have a good reason to switch, because a synthetic combo isn't better than NDT. It's about convenience, and what you're comfortably with.

As @Jman said above, a tablet of cynoplus is 30mcg T3 - 120 mcg T4. Ray has advised against taking any dose which contains more than 10mcg T3 and even then, it should be 5mcg or less ideally. Since you've taken two grains before, it would make sense to cut the cynoplus tablet in four, and take 2 pieces a day, which gives you a dose of 7.5mcg T3 and 30mcg T4 each.

That could work, 1 in the morning and 1 at night with food. That's 1.5grains. Start with that. If you find your temps going down, add another fourth at lunch, again with food. You'll be slightly more than 2 grains then. (So, 3 fourths not 3 halves)

Taking more than this at a time, will cause T3 to be converted to rT3 and will create a backlog of unconverted T4, which will lower your temps. The only recovery from this is to stop T4 altogether and take just T3 for a week or more (or nothing, which will make you feel like ***t). So, avoid it, and keep your doses at a 4th of a cynoplus at a time (or less).

Personally, I split up the doses even further, by biting down half of a fourth of a cynoplus every couple of hours, thus taking 3.75 mcg T3 and 15mcg T4. So basically my doses are an eighth of a cynoplus, 4 times a day, with some additional T3.

As you can see, it can be a bit more cumbersome than NDT.

Yes - Peat advises against non-physiological doses of T3 noting that in our long lost prime we produced 4mcg T3 an hour.

With NDT it has to be digested to get the active ingredients so less splitting of doses required. Just maybe mrchibbs is Ray Peat in disguise.

 

[Shontelle]

Thank you Joe!

For the last two days I’ve been taking 1/4 with food in the morning ans that’s it.
My wake temp has been increasing 35.6 and the rest of the day 36.9 and 37.
However my energy levels haven’t been great at all..
so I’ll take other dose of 1/4 at dinner with food.

Aside from this still having this dulling, swelling in my right calf. Also an ongoing ear infection since December and nasal/flem congestion on the continuum.