Supplements & Diet For Gadolinium Poisoning?

[BlueRondo]

Hi Folks-

Thanks for this forum -- Dr. Peat is relatively new to me, and I'm finding these discussions to be an indispensable resource. My apologies if this in the wrong subforum -- I'm a little overwhelmed by all the choices.

Why I'm here: I'm suffering from Gadolinium-based contrast dye retention and it is causing connective tissue problems with my hands and feet.

I'm rapidly losing the subcutaneous fat in both -- most particularly in the fingertips, which are now receding from the nails. I'm also developing small, hard, painful bumps just underneath the fingertip skin, which I suspect are digital ulcers beginning to form.

It is increasingly painful and debilitating, and it has all but ended my nearly 40-year musical life as a guitarist (the strings now feel like knives under my fingers). Moreover, it's become difficult to do much of anything with my hands (e.g., I'm typing this with my fingernails). It's been very bad for nearly three months now, and is still worsening.

I'm wondering mostly about regenerating lost subcutaneous fat in what seems to be a growing fibrosis / possibly scleroderma-type scenario, and if Dr. Peat's approach might yield some dividends along those lines. I'm desperate to stop this in its tracks and hopefully reverse the damage if possible. Is there any way to reverse fibrosis and put fat pads back into fingertips, etc?

Please advise. Thanks in advance for any ideas / suggestions.

 

[MigFon]

I have asked Dr. Peat about this issue specifically, and he recomended me Coffee and Orange Juice as chelators for gadolinium.

As a side note and these are just my 2 cents, deferoxamine has been shown to able effectivelly increase the amout of gad that is excreted in urine and it's possibly one of the most effective chelators of gad at this point.

As I gather, deferoxamine has a high affinity for iron, so perhaps stuff that people in this forum have used for chelating iron with great sucess, such as IP6, that is cheap and you can take orally , could possibly be viable alternative to deferoxamine.

Good luck.

 

[Kehaar]

BlueRondo - I don't have any advice for you for healing, but I am interested in your experience. How long after the MRI did your symptoms start? Has your blood work ruled out connective tissue and auto-immune diseases as a potential cause? Were you taking any mineral supplements when you got the MRI? How many doses of MRI contrast have you gotten? Do you know which ones?

I hope you are finding relief from your symptoms. I agree with @MigFon that deferoxamine may get rid of some of the gadolinium, but I don't know if that would help your symptoms.

 

[Nicole W.]

Hi Folks-

Thanks for this forum -- Dr. Peat is relatively new to me, and I'm finding these discussions to be an indispensable resource. My apologies if this in the wrong subforum -- I'm a little overwhelmed by all the choices.

Why I'm here: I'm suffering from Gadolinium-based contrast dye retention and it is causing connective tissue problems with my hands and feet.

I'm rapidly losing the subcutaneous fat in both -- most particularly in the fingertips, which are now receding from the nails. I'm also developing small, hard, painful bumps just underneath the fingertip skin, which I suspect are digital ulcers beginning to form.

It is increasingly painful and debilitating, and it has all but ended my nearly 40-year musical life as a guitarist (the strings now feel like knives under my fingers). Moreover, it's become difficult to do much of anything with my hands (e.g., I'm typing this with my fingernails). It's been very bad for nearly three months now, and is still worsening.

I'm wondering mostly about regenerating lost subcutaneous fat in what seems to be a growing fibrosis / possibly scleroderma-type scenario, and if Dr. Peat's approach might yield some dividends along those lines. I'm desperate to stop this in its tracks and hopefully reverse the damage if possible. Is there any way to reverse fibrosis and put fat pads back into fingertips, etc?

Please advise. Thanks in advance for any ideas / suggestions.

After an MRI with contrast, my naturopath suggested liposomal glutathione for a couple of weeks. She said the glutathione is very effective at ridding the body of gad.

 

[puella]

BlueRondo- wondering if you have any updates on this? Curious about what you decided to try & if helped? I've had 5 MRIs with contrast since Feb 2017- my symptoms started a few hours after my last MRI in April
Symptoms:

1. Bone & joint pain

• Had severe symptoms for about 2 weeks after the last MRI.
  
• Doctor subsequently tested me for Lyme (inconclusive) & arthritis (negative) & infection markers (negative). My CBC was on the lower side of normal
  
• The pain & locations vary
  
• Hips seems to be the first to flair up & stay aggravated while I'm having an episode, otherwise the pain usually ping pongs all over the place.
  
• Shins & collar bone are the areas most likely to have bone pain
  
• I'm just realizing that movement seems to make it worse. Walking & hiking was making it worse then at some point that stopped. However, now it seems like things that really move the lymph fluids around (qigong, yoga, pilates) are brings the symptoms back up

2. Consistent & most dramatic weight gain of my life- I don't really care about the weight since I could have probably used some of it- it's just something that is totally new to me & feels a bit out of control.

• No change to diet (been Peat friendly since 2015. Have never done any extreme dieting in the past unless you include a 4 years of being a vegetarian in college)
  
• My activity levels have decreased somewhat (due to the symptoms & then I got something like the flu just as my joints were starting to feel better, also energy just hasn't been the same since having surgery last year)

I'm 35 y/o female, had a craniotomy in Feb 2017 (the stress of that brought on 2 menstrual cycles a month starting on the day of surgery & . No amount of super dosing on progesterone has been able to break me out of that). I take compounded T3, HealthNatura progesterone, Great Lakes gelatin, & a multi. Sometimes use aspirin, charcoal, Mitolipin, Cardenosine. Drink coffee & OJ daily. Eat carrot salads a couple times a week but trying to do it more often.

I'm scared to exercise 1) because of the subsequent pain 2) affraid that whatever is causing the flair-ups when I move around might cause permanent damage to my joints? If it's the gadolinium causing all of this, I'd like to find a safe way to get it out. Really don't know what to do

 

[Kehaar]

BlueRondo- wondering if you have any updates on this? Curious about what you decided to try & if helped? I've had 5 MRIs with contrast since Feb 2017- my symptoms started a few hours after my last MRI in April
Symptoms:

1. Bone & joint pain

• Had severe symptoms for about 2 weeks after the last MRI.
  
• Doctor subsequently tested me for Lyme (inconclusive) & arthritis (negative) & infection markers (negative). My CBC was on the lower side of normal
  
• The pain & locations vary
  
• Hips seems to be the first to flair up & stay aggravated while I'm having an episode, otherwise the pain usually ping pongs all over the place.
  
• Shins & collar bone are the areas most likely to have bone pain
  
• I'm just realizing that movement seems to make it worse. Walking & hiking was making it worse then at some point but that stopped. However, now it seems like things that really move the lymph fluids around (qigong, yoga, pilates) are brings the symptoms back up

2. Consistent & most dramatic weight gain of my life- I don't really care about the weight since I could have probably used some of it- it's just something that is totally new to me & feels a bit out of control.

• No change to diet (been Peat friendly since 2015. Have never done any extreme dieting in the past unless you include a 4 years of being a vegetarian in college)
  
• My activity levels have decreased somewhat (due to the symptoms & then I got something like the flu just as my joints were starting to feel better, also energy just hasn't been the same since having surgery last year)

I'm 35 y/o female, had a craniotomy in Feb 2017 (the stress of that brought on 2 menstrual cycles a month starting on the day of surgery & . No amount of super dosing on progesterone has been able to break me out of that). I take compounded T3, HealthNatura progesterone, Great Lakes gelatin, & a multi. Sometimes use aspirin, charcoal, Mitolipin, Cardenosine. Drink coffee & OJ daily. Eat carrot salads a couple times a week but trying to do it more often.

I'm scared to exercise 1) because of the subsequent pain 2) affraid that whatever is causing the flair-ups when I move around might cause permanent damage to my joints? If it's the gadolinium causing all of this, I'd like to find a safe way to get it out. Really don't know what to do

Hi Puella,
Did you have any joint paints before you had the MRIs?
Why did you have the MRIs?
Did you take zinc, calcium or magnesium near the time of the MRI?
Do you have thyroid disease?

Sorry to hear you've had so much trouble. I'm also trying to understand gadolinium issues.

 

[puella]

Hi Kehaar- thank you so much for the interest & sympathy. Have you had personal had experiences with gadolinium or do you work with it?

Hi Puella,
Did you have any joint paints before you had the MRIs?
I have had a few instances of joint pain in the past- typically as an allergic reaction (to non-organic wine or latex paint fumes. But it had never lasted more than a day in previous instances or felt like it may have caused permanent damage. I vary rarely drink alcohol & avoid paint that's not low or Zero VOC). I have NEVER felt bone pain before the last MRI though.
Why did you have the MRIs?
A brain tumor/meningioma I had removed last year (discovery, pre & post op, 3/6/12 month scans). The last scan showed the portion of tumor they were not able to remove, because it was too close to an artery, was gone. So I'm planning to decline any more MRIs unless I start experiencing neurological symptoms again. I don't know what contrast agent was used at the hospital but the 3 used outside of that I think were Gadavist.
Did you take zinc, calcium or magnesium near the time of the MRI?
I was not taking a multi-vitamin or supplements that contained any of those at the time. Just started the multi in the past 2 weeks & haven't taken such supplements in over 2 years.
Do you have thyroid disease?
I was diagnosed as hypothyroid somewhere around 2014 & have been on T3 since

Sorry to hear you've had so much trouble. I'm also trying to understand gadolinium issues.

 

[Kehaar]

Thanks for your responses. Both. I've had it (fortunately without noticeable effects) and I work with it. There are theories about why some people get the types of symptoms you have, and others don't. If a person is taking certain supplements, they may knock the gadolinium off the rest of the carrier which could theoretically cause problems. I see that is not the case for you. Most people who develop symptoms are female, which makes one wonder about inflammatory, hormonal, or thyroid issues that often are more prevalent in women. I hope you continue to recover, and I'd be interested to continue to hear how you do, if you want to share.

 

[x-ray peat]

@DrJ and @Ras helped me a lot when I was thinking about getting the contrast for an MRI. They both work in the field so maybe can help you out as well.

 

[Nicole W.]

Hi Folks-

Thanks for this forum -- Dr. Peat is relatively new to me, and I'm finding these discussions to be an indispensable resource. My apologies if this in the wrong subforum -- I'm a little overwhelmed by all the choices.

Why I'm here: I'm suffering from Gadolinium-based contrast dye retention and it is causing connective tissue problems with my hands and feet.

I'm rapidly losing the subcutaneous fat in both -- most particularly in the fingertips, which are now receding from the nails. I'm also developing small, hard, painful bumps just underneath the fingertip skin, which I suspect are digital ulcers beginning to form.

It is increasingly painful and debilitating, and it has all but ended my nearly 40-year musical life as a guitarist (the strings now feel like knives under my fingers). Moreover, it's become difficult to do much of anything with my hands (e.g., I'm typing this with my fingernails). It's been very bad for nearly three months now, and is still worsening.

I'm wondering mostly about regenerating lost subcutaneous fat in what seems to be a growing fibrosis / possibly scleroderma-type scenario, and if Dr. Peat's approach might yield some dividends along those lines. I'm desperate to stop this in its tracks and hopefully reverse the damage if possible. Is there any way to reverse fibrosis and put fat pads back into fingertips, etc?

Please advise. Thanks in advance for any ideas / suggestions.

Hi BlueRondo,

It’s been nearly a year since your inquiry. How are you doing? Have you found anything that has helped your condition? How many contrast exposures did you have before noticing symptoms?

 

[puella]

Most people who develop symptoms are female, which makes one wonder about inflammatory, hormonal, or thyroid issues that often are more prevalent in women. I hope you continue to recover, and I'd be interested to continue to hear how you do, if you want to share.

Very interesting in light of the hormone imbalance that occurred & has persisted after surgery. Just based on intuition, it certainly feels like the surge of stress contributed to my susceptibility of the side effects. It also feels like the gadolinium may be playing a roll in my inability to get my cycles back on track. Not sure if the gadolinium is somehow blocking my ability to detox it as well as the stress hormones creating some kind of stalemate (or if it's working the other way around).

I'll definitely report back if I figure anything else out since there is very little help out there on the subject.

@DrJ and @Ras helped me a lot when I was thinking about getting the contrast for an MRI. They both work in the field so maybe can help you out as well.

Big thanks!

-----
I looked to see if Chris Shade (mercury detox guy) had anything to say about gadolinium & found this , starts around the 1:12:40 mark. Not very hopeful hah. He does say that the best chelator for removing it is the one that brought it in: DTPA. I guess DTPA is hard to find but I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable using it without some kind of guidance anyhow. I might email him to see if I can get the full name of the doctor he mentions who is using it intravenously.

 

[Kehaar]

Very interesting in light of the hormone imbalance that occurred & has persisted after surgery. Just based on intuition, it certainly feels like the surge of stress contributed to my susceptibility of the side effects. It also feels like the gadolinium may be playing a roll in my inability to get my cycles back on track. Not sure if the gadolinium is somehow blocking my ability to detox it as well as the stress hormones creating some kind of stalemate (or if it's working the other way around).

I'll definitely report back if I figure anything else out since there is very little help out there on the subject.


Big thanks!

-----
I looked to see if Chris Shade (mercury detox guy) had anything to say about gadolinium & found this , starts around the 1:12:40 mark. Not very hopeful hah. He does say that the best chelator for removing it is the one that brought it in: DTPA. I guess DTPA is hard to find but I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable using it without some kind of guidance anyhow. I might email him to see if I can get the full name of the doctor he mentions who is using it intravenously.

There's a guy in North Caroline, Dr. Semelka, who does some chelation treatment for gadolinium. He reported on it here:
Intravenous Calcium-/Zinc-Diethylene Triamine Penta-Acetic Acid in Patients With Presumed Gadolinium Deposition Disease: A Preliminary Report on 25... - PubMed - NCBI

I think it's not easy or straightforward to do this sort of thing, and could lead to other deficiencies. In fact, in the article, two of the patients reported that their symptoms got worse with chelation treatment. It's interesting that you noticed that stress may have contributed to your susceptibility. I think the immune system is probably involved in gadolinium reactions and of course stress and hormones and immunity are intertwined. It's possible the gadolinium will be excreted with time, whether or not it is chelated.

 

[DrJ]

Sorry I don't know anything about curing exposure to gadolinium. Only that as an element used in the manufacture of x-ray detector scintillators (and probably other things like semiconductors) it is considered quite toxic, especially to mucus membranes. Even when it is attached to other elements in a compound, it seems to be released from those easily in the presence of an acid. Probably, as @Kehaar mentions, you need to figure out a way to chelate it.

 

[puella]

There's a guy in North Caroline, Dr. Semelka, who does some chelation treatment for gadolinium. He reported on it here:
Intravenous Calcium-/Zinc-Diethylene Triamine Penta-Acetic Acid in Patients With Presumed Gadolinium Deposition Disease: A Preliminary Report on 25... - PubMed - NCBI

I think it's not easy or straightforward to do this sort of thing, and could lead to other deficiencies. In fact, in the article, two of the patients reported that their symptoms got worse with chelation treatment. It's interesting that you noticed that stress may have contributed to your susceptibility. I think the immune system is probably involved in gadolinium reactions and of course stress and hormones and immunity are intertwined. It's possible the gadolinium will be excreted with time, whether or not it is chelated.

Kehaar, thanks again! I emailed Dr. Semelka & he responded rather quickly. His wife ended up responding too, explaining the step-by-step process of working with Dr. Semelka. He recommended "30 days after the GBCA administration (which would be now) getting a 24 hour urine Gd from Doctor's Data". Waiting for the test to show up & will proceed from there.

 

[Kehaar]

Kehaar, thanks again! I emailed Dr. Semelka & he responded rather quickly. His wife ended up responding too, explaining the step-by-step process of working with Dr. Semelka. He recommended "30 days after the GBCA administration (which would be now) getting a 24 hour urine Gd from Doctor's Data". Waiting for the test to show up & will proceed from there.

Hi Puella - I'd be interested to hear about your experiences with Dr. Semelka. I hope you get some relief, but keep in mind that his method has risks and may not help. There's no way to get the gadolinium out that doesn't disrupt your homeostasis of other cations, notably zinc. It would be great to understand why you (and others) have developed problems after gadolinium, whereas hundreds of millions of others have not. If you have any more insights on the issue, I am all ears. Wishing you well.

 

[puella]

I took my urine test almost exactly 60 days after my last MRI- gadolinium was found to still be high (as was thorium?). I'm going to get a report written up by Semelka but definitely struggling on whether chelation would be worth it. The 'cure' certainly sounds like it has the potential to be worse than the disease. To add to the confusion, all 4 administrations were with Gadavist. He said Gadavist is the trickiest to chelate & seems to get the worst flare up reactions.

I question if millions of people have actually fared well with GBCAs. I wonder how many people have been misdiagnosed with fibromyalgia, cystic fibrosis, lyme disease, arthritis, etc. You could get a negative urine test but it wouldn't account for the Gd that could be stored literally anywhere in the body- and wreaking havoc as heavy metals are prone to do. I think some of Semelka's recommendations for the industry could be very enlightening in this regard (recording the dose given ((how this isn't standard blew my mind!)) & sending out follow up surveys).Edit/another thought: Are 120lb women getting the same dose as a 25olb man? If they are giving the same dose across the board, that could be one way to explain why women are more prone to having problems

Any ideas on things that could help lessen the homeostasis disruption if I do decide on the chelation? I'll continue to keep you posted, Kehaar

 

[Kehaar]

I took my urine test almost exactly 60 days after my last MRI- gadolinium was found to still be high (as was thorium?). I'm going to get a report written up by Semelka but definitely struggling on whether chelation would be worth it. The 'cure' certainly sounds like it has the potential to be worse than the disease. To add to the confusion, all 4 administrations were with Gadavist. He said Gadavist is the trickiest to chelate & seems to get the worst flare up reactions.

I question if millions of people have actually fared well with GBCAs. I wonder how many people have been misdiagnosed with fibromyalgia, cystic fibrosis, lyme disease, arthritis, etc. You could get a negative urine test but it wouldn't account for the Gd that could be stored literally anywhere in the body- and wreaking havoc as heavy metals are prone to do. I think some of Semelka's recommendations for the industry could be very enlightening in this regard (recording the dose given ((how this isn't standard blew my mind!)) & sending out follow up surveys).Edit/another thought: Are 120lb women getting the same dose as a 25olb man? If they are giving the same dose across the board, that could be one way to explain why women are more prone to having problems

Any ideas on things that could help lessen the homeostasis disruption if I do decide on the chelation? I'll continue to keep you posted, Kehaar

Hi Puella,
Have your symptoms been getting any better over time? If so, that could be an argument against chelation, although I guess it really depends on how badly you feel now. Gadavist leaves less gadolinium in your body than some of the other options, and also seems to washout over time even without chelation. So if you are on a healing trajectory, you might want to wait and see.

Gadolinium contrast agents are dosed based on weight (usually 0.1 mmol/kg), so small women would not be given the same dose as larger men.

About 350 million doses of gadolinium contrast have been given over the past 30 years. While it is certainly true that symptoms and diseases could be caused by gadolinium and patients and providers don't connect the dots, the vast majority of people get the contrast and feel the same afterwards (right away and weeks later). That said, it is clear that some people are having chronic symptoms (like yours) that seem to be from the gadolinium, and they describe similar symptoms.
The only way I know of to lessen the homeostasis disruption is to have your blood and urine carefully monitored and have things replaced if needed. I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes. Have you been to the lighthouse project website? Gadolinium Toxicity You can read more about gadolinium issues and connect with others having similar problems. (I realize you probably already know about it, but just in case.)

Wishing you well.

 

[KCM]

Anyone here have any luck with treatment for Gadolinium toxicity? I'm not sure I have it but some of the symptoms do match. Had a dose slightly higher than mentioned in here (0.1mmol/kg) and only once with Dotarem. Knowing this is permanently inside my body makes me feel uneasy, esp if it's going to cause symptoms. I think logically like anything you put into the body dose curve and kidney function (as even if your eGFR is above 60, it can still be somewhat low like I have) not drinking enough water on the days of and after the scan can all likely affect long term outlook. I had perhaps 5-6.5/10 headache pain for several days after indicating crossing the BBB and storing there? it would make sense that since it's so toxic, as long as no new gadolinium is coming in, it may excrete it in small amounts over months/years but sometimes the body finds this too risky and simply holds onto it. Can't believe they do this to people.