supplementing with ERFA thyroid?

kringlecold

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Jun 16, 2013
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59
Hi,

I've tried cynomel and cynoplus and neither have had the desired effect of eliminating my health woes.

I've read good recommendations regarding ERFA thyroid, but I have read nothing on how to supplement it.

I want to know whether I should eat it with food or without, do I buy it in 30mg, 60 mg, or 125 mg., do I cut the pills, etc.?

I have little financial ability to perform many blood tests to adequately figure out what is exactly wrong with me, so I'd prefer to just what be told what to look for in general like pulse, temp, and other changes that may be indicative of good or bad health symptoms.

Appreciate any help.
 

4peatssake

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kringlecold said:
Hi,

I've tried cynomel and cynoplus and neither have had the desired effect of eliminating my health woes.

I've read good recommendations regarding ERFA thyroid, but I have read nothing on how to supplement it.

I want to know whether I should eat it with food or without, do I buy it in 30mg, 60 mg, or 125 mg., do I cut the pills, etc.?

I have little financial ability to perform many blood tests to adequately figure out what is exactly wrong with me, so I'd prefer to just what be told what to look for in general like pulse, temp, and other changes that may be indicative of good or bad health symptoms.

Appreciate any help.
Can't help you with ERFA thyroid. I'm one of the fortunate ones for whom cynoplus and cynomel work great.

Temps, pulse and the Achilles Tendon Reflux Test are very helpful in determining thyroid function.

Peat said this in an email to me:

Ray Peat said:
thyroid has probably been the basic problem, so checking your temperature and resting pulse rate (at least twice a day, at waking, and about an hour after breakfast) would be a place to start. Having someone check your Achilles tendon reflex relaxation rate is helpful; the relaxation should be instantaneous, so that your foot falls floppily.

I used google and found a YouTube video of the achilles test. I used the end of a butter knife (Peat recommended using this as I didn't have one of the little hammer things.) For best results, you'll need someone to do this for you.

Here's an article by Peat that should help.

TSH, temperature, pulse rate, and other indicators in hypothyroidism

It's important to monitor temps and pulse together as stress hormones can cause high temperatures.

Ideally, your temp should be above 98.6 an hour after breakfast and pulse rate between 80-100.
 

Peata

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4peatssake said:
It's important to monitor temps and pulse together as stress hormones can cause high temperatures.

Ideally, your temp should be above 98.6 an hour after breakfast and pulse rate between 80-100.

I missed this info somewhere along the line, so thanks. This is good to know, because sometimes I wondered if my high temp was due to stress hormones or not.

A video on the Achilles Tendon Reflex test would be awesome.
 

4peatssake

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Peata said:
4peatssake said:
It's important to monitor temps and pulse together as stress hormones can cause high temperatures.

Ideally, your temp should be above 98.6 an hour after breakfast and pulse rate between 80-100.

I missed this info somewhere along the line, so thanks. This is good to know, because sometimes I wondered if my high temp was due to stress hormones or not.

A video on the Achilles Tendon Reflex test would be awesome.
I think this is the video I used.

Achilles Reflux Tendon Test

My temps and pulse were both really high due to stress hormones but it leveled out when I began supplementing thyroid. I absolutely needed the thyroid to get my temps up and heart rate normal. My heart rate still tends to be high.
 

Mittir

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Can you describe what kind of problem you had with cynomel plus.
How much did you take? With or without food?
What was the bad reaction and how long after you started the med.
Do you any gut irritation issue? Gut irritation causes cortisol to increase
and that will increase your reverse T3 . But T4 alone can lower TSH
and in other thread you posted your TSH . It was bit high. How was your TSH
before cynoplus? It takes about 2-3 weeks for T4 supplementation
to reach a stable level in blood.
 

kringlecold

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I started with an 1/8th of cynomel and a quarter of cynoplus once a day with food, both taken separately, cyno at night.

I felt good but my temps weren't changing and my pulse would be in the 80-90s. I started adding an extra 1/8th of cynomel after 1.5 months 3-4 hr.s apart with another meal, felt better, 3 months in added another 1/8th of cynomel. At first it was accidental, but my temp that night jumped to 98.6 and my pulse and I in general felt awesome.

I tried that for a bit, started feeling dizzy out of nowhere, stopped thyroid entirely for about two weeks until temps went to high 97 midday, high pulse without it. Started experiencing depressive ideas at nights, added an 1/8th of cynoplus with food, felt good but couldn't sleep to well. Most times the cynoplus would give me this feeling of blood rushing from my hands and heat flashes, which I thought indicated it was making me more hypothyroid.

After two weeks of this, I took to many aspirin while dehydrated and per my went to ER thread, stared experiencing all type of odd feelings, so i cut off all supps. for the next two weeks.

I just recently for the last two weeks added back in an 1/8th of cynomel. I felt relaxed and better for the first week and a half, towards the end of the second week I started to feel dizzy again, so I dropped cynomel and am on nothing now.

I would go back to the the combo but I'm really unsure of a proper regimen. So for now I'm just letting myself recover off good food and was hoping dessicated could be an alternative. In general I'm a bit scared to start trying the two again.
 

4peatssake

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kringlecold said:
So for now I'm just letting myself recover off good food and was hoping dessicated could be an alternative. In general I'm a bit scared to start trying the two again.
Have you considered thiroyd? Charlie, Rayser and a few others are using this NDT with good success.

If interested, I suggest you PM Charlie for info.
 

Mittir

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It seems like a complicated situation. If you have so many problems
with supplement it seems risky to experiment with these.
I would be very very cautious with supplement
If Aspirin can land me in ER.
I have problem with almost all kind of supplement and medicine.
I try to avoid supplement and medicine as much as i can and i rely mostly on food.
It takes time but it definitely gets better with time following RP.
You are a young person and it is much easier for
young people to turn things around just following diet.
You only tested for TSH, Total T4, total T3 and if possible reverse T3 will give a much better
idea about your thyroid condition. Your pulse between 80-90 is quite good.
You may have less symptom with much smaller dose.
What is your temperature without any kind of thyroid supplement?
2 hours after breakfast temperature. You may have other source of
metabolism problem. Do you have any gut irritation issue?
 

ilovethesea

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Feb 9, 2013
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kringlecold said:
Hi,

I've tried cynomel and cynoplus and neither have had the desired effect of eliminating my health woes.

I've read good recommendations regarding ERFA thyroid, but I have read nothing on how to supplement it.

I want to know whether I should eat it with food or without, do I buy it in 30mg, 60 mg, or 125 mg., do I cut the pills, etc.?

I have little financial ability to perform many blood tests to adequately figure out what is exactly wrong with me, so I'd prefer to just what be told what to look for in general like pulse, temp, and other changes that may be indicative of good or bad health symptoms.

Appreciate any help.

I take Erfa and like it. I haven't found any difference taking it with food or on an empty stomach. I just divide up my dosage and take mine at set times of day so it's spaced out throughout the day. I believe it is only T4-only medication like Synthroid that you have to worry about taking on an empty stomach. The only consideration is that a lot of food might slow absorption a little bit which could be a factor with the T3, so you probably don't want to take it with a very heavy meal. I take mine sublingually. You may find this informative http://thyroid.about.com/b/2011/05/03/s ... n-pill.htm

As for dosage, this is the Broda Barnes recommendation:
Starting dose : The size of a proper starting dose of thyroid will vary with the age and size of the patient. Usually a child under 3 years will not need more than one-quarter grain daily. By the age of six, one-half grain may be used in the beginning. A teenager or adult may safely be started on one grain daily. For a particularly large man or woman, two brains may be used - but no more than that at the beginning.
Further dosage : The starting dosage should be maintained for about two months. After that, if necessary, the dosage may be increased.

One grain = 60 mg.

I find the pills cut in half quite well with a pill cutter. I'm not sure about quartering them as I've never tried that.

Is your doctor willing to prescribe Erfa to you? I've found it extremely difficult to not only get a prescription (even here in Canada where it's manufactured) but also to find it in stock at the pharmacy... the doctors are basically Synthroid robots! I have to wonder if they get some sort of kickback from putting people on that garbage.
 

kringlecold

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I'm starting to wonder if I'm constipated even though I had diarrhea yesterday. My food doesn't want to seem to pass through. I also may have crashed my metabolism per Charlie by having unique e vit. e. I noticed after I had a lot of problems following a dosing the lower temp. I would get following milk consumption had returned.

I also just went to the gym and lifted. I've been going lighter because I've noticed tension around my heart after lifting but I've been doing more reps.
It felt like I was going to die after, I could hardly breathe and my heart felt weird. I managed to walk a few miles home and my temp is at 98.1 but my pulse is so light and fast that I can't tell if I'm skipping a beat.

Damn America and it's health system. I've gone to the ER three times in the past two weeks over ***t like this and have received nothing but a perfectly clean bill of health and an outrageously high bill. I feel a bit better now but this stuff worries me so much.
 

Mittir

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I think with these kind of complicated problem getting a full consultation with RP will be
helpful. Even with that you need to figure our yourself which food or supplement causing problems
or which one is improving things. Were you healthier before following RP style eating?
It is possible that all that liquid is lowering your metabolism. Hypothyroid people need to
be careful with fluid intake. You may try a low fluid diet for few days and see how it feels.
You can use more cottage cheese and less milk. Gelatin orange gummy can provide protein and
OJ at the same time, provided you do not have problem digesting gelatin
Egg can be source of irritation , fresh beef usually have less problem.
You may skip OJ for few days and use
table sugar or honey or grape juice.
Stopping all the supplement for few days will give you an idea
if there is any problem in that. Are you doing light therapy? 250 to 500 watts of
incandescent light are very helpful in increasing metabolism.
Sunlight or vitamin D is also essential.
I think main focus should be intestine, most problems starts from there.
 

kringlecold

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Mittir said:
I think with these kind of complicated problem getting a full consultation with RP will be
helpful. Even with that you need to figure our yourself which food or supplement causing problems
or which one is improving things. Were you healthier before following RP style eating?
It is possible that all that liquid is lowering your metabolism. Hypothyroid people need to
be careful with fluid intake. You may try a low fluid diet for few days and see how it feels.
You can use more cottage cheese and less milk. Gelatin orange gummy can provide protein and
OJ at the same time, provided you do not have problem digesting gelatin
Egg can be source of irritation , fresh beef usually have less problem.
You may skip OJ for few days and use
table sugar or honey or grape juice.
Stopping all the supplement for few days will give you an idea
if there is any problem in that. Are you doing light therapy? 250 to 500 watts of
incandescent light are very helpful in increasing metabolism.
Sunlight or vitamin D is also essential.
I think main focus should be intestine, most problems starts from there.

Thank you.

I have felt healthier on Ray Peat ever since overcoming difficulties with drinking milk.
:
I will try all your suggestions of reducing fluids. Ray Peat said I might have asthma, I looked online and found aspirin induced asthma:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin-induced_asthma.

I'm going to ask my doctor about that as all the issues started after the aspirin.

I'm actually a little unsure of how to eat more solid foods considering I have a gluten allergy. I'll just try lots of potatoes I suppose.

I'll get back if this solves the problem.

Also, before my appetite was awesome I was salting and sugaring my milk, maybe I should try that again.
 
J

j.

Guest
Yeah, they're fine. Probably any incandescent light is fine. Have you tried more than 250 watts at once?
 

Mittir

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Since you have gluten allergy you probably have a sensitive intestine.
You have to be extra careful with food and supplement intake.
Aspirin is a very powerful medicine and can be very dangerous for some people.
If you have aspirin induced asthma it would be a good idea to completely avoid them
until you feel healthier. Even without Asthma some people can develop
stomach ulcer within weeks of using Aspirin and other NSAID.
I still do not use Aspirin , i am waiting till my gut gets completely healed.
If you use Aspirin in future do not forget to take Vitamin K with it.

I lowered my fluid intake by mixing milk and homemade cottage cheese.
Instead of 2 quarts of milk, you can drink 1 quart milk and 1 cup of cottage cheese.
1 quart milk gives you about a cup of cottage cheese.
OJ irritates my stomach badly, i was OJ free in the beginning.
Now i only drink 2 glass . OJ has lots of soluble fiber .
For over a year i used lots of sugar to avoid soluble fiber of fruits and starch.
Potato is also rich in soluble fiber. White rice has very little soluble fiber and
have least problem among starches. Starch is not good for gut.
You do not have to use starch if it bothers you.
Once your gut is healed you will be able to tolerate lots of other foods.

Lights you are using are fine. But RP recommends the clear version of the bulb,
since red one does not have the orange wave. They are very close in terms of benefits.
 
J

j.

Guest
Mittir said:
Lights you are using are fine. But RP recommends the clear version of the bulb,
since red one does not have the orange wave. They are very close in terms of benefits.

But one should point out that the clear has more of the blue than the red, so on this aspect the red is better.
 

kringlecold

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J, I have yet to try two at once.
The red feels better than the clear.

I also took aspirin off and on every few weeks for a while.
In the last two weeks while taking just cynoplus alone I tried taking 5 aspirin one day- always with 1 Life Extensions Vit.K. The first time I was fine, the second time was after work and I was maybe a bit dehydrated as my pee was dark yellow. Still, I drank a few glasses of milk and other things with the pills.

I started with pain in my stomach then weird sensations of difficulty breathing and pains in my head. I was panicing as I didn't know what these feelings were. They noticed impurities in my kidneys and blamed dehydration. They gave me a saline drip,of which I still have a red mark from where the needle went in-three weeks later, and then sent me home. That's how it started, I had no food issues whatsoever before then.

So I stopped cynoplus, vit.k supplementation, magnesium oxide supp.-I want to add this back in as it helped me breathe better when I first added it in.

Also, the red light is hurting my eyes or I'm very sensitive to it.

Could that indicate magnesium deficiency?

Mittir, I will try cottage cheese. It sounds like it could be fun. I wonder if the raw milk I always drink is also bothering me now?
I will probably add beef and make tacos more often; I like corn tortillas. I will just use extra "protective" sugar for starch. Since I work a hard job I need to eat a lot, I think it would be too difficult to do no starch in that regards.

Does anyone know of a good American juicer for potatoes? Something cheap? I'm interested in trying cooked potato juice.
 

Bluebell

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kringlecold said:
J, I have yet to try two at once.
The red feels better than the clear.

I also took aspirin off and on every few weeks for a while.
In the last two weeks while taking just cynoplus alone I tried taking 5 aspirin one day- always with 1 Life Extensions Vit.K. The first time I was fine, the second time was after work and I was maybe a bit dehydrated as my pee was dark yellow. Still, I drank a few glasses of milk and other things with the pills.

I started with pain in my stomach then weird sensations of difficulty breathing and pains in my head. I was panicing as I didn't know what these feelings were. They noticed impurities in my kidneys and blamed dehydration. They gave me a saline drip,of which I still have a red mark from where the needle went in-three weeks later, and then sent me home. That's how it started, I had no food issues whatsoever before then.

So I stopped cynoplus, vit.k supplementation, magnesium oxide supp.-I want to add this back in as it helped me breathe better when I first added it in.

Also, the red light is hurting my eyes or I'm very sensitive to it.

Could that indicate magnesium deficiency?

Mittir, I will try cottage cheese. It sounds like it could be fun. I wonder if the raw milk I always drink is also bothering me now?
I will probably add beef and make tacos more often; I like corn tortillas. I will just use extra "protective" sugar for starch. Since I work a hard job I need to eat a lot, I think it would be too difficult to do no starch in that regards.

Does anyone know of a good American juicer for potatoes? Something cheap? I'm interested in trying cooked potato juice.

Just a couple of things - the aspirin, make sure you dissolve the pills and drink the liquid (let the starch settle to bottom). Swallowing the pills whole can cause problems.

If the red light bothers you, there are mini black-out eye goggles that you can wear, the same ones people wear under sunbeds.

Corn tortillas, yum! What do you put in them?
 

4peatssake

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Bluebell said:
Just a couple of things - the aspirin, make sure you dissolve the pills and drink the liquid (let the starch settle to bottom). Swallowing the pills whole can cause problems.
I remain confused about this and as such I have been taking the entire aspirin without dissolving it in water.
Maybe I'll start dissolving it and taking the whole thing. Or get the horse stuff. :roll:

Jenn, what do you do?

The reason for my confusion is Peatarian has said she uses only the white stuff after dissolving it in water.
Beebop has said she gets no sense of there being any aspirin in the water.

Peatarian said:
I pour away the water at least twice, usually three times and only use the white powder on the bottom. Ray Peat wrote that he used the crystallized **** and keeps it frozen before he uses it. but I can't find a pharmacy in Germany that will sell crystallized **** to me.

It sounds as if aspirin-induced asthma could account for what happened to you kringlecold. A frightening experience!
 

Mittir

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@Kringlecold
I am sure what you had was an Aspirin induced asthma and stomach pain.
Ray Peat has already told you it is asthma.
It is a very dangerous condition. People do have fatal consequences.
This is a very aggressive form of asthma than regular asthma.
I would suggest you to read more on this. Dehydration got nothing to do with
Aspirin intolerance. Magnesium is not an issue here.
They do not know why people have Aspirin intolerance. One guess is the
accumulation of all the omega-6 in our body altering inflammation pathway.
 
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