Supplement Ratios/interactions

Dan Wich

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Jan 22, 2013
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Since I like making big ol' lists, I thought I'd create a thread for supplement ratios/interactions that people should watch out for. Here's some that I know of:

Interactions that Peat has specifically mentioned:

If you are taking Vitamin A:

If you are taking aspirin:

Interactions where Peat's opinion is unknown:

If you are taking aspirin:
  • Be careful when taking Acetazolamide. See the "Acetazolamide" topic for details.

If you are taking high-dose Vitamin E:

If you are taking d-alpha-tocopherol Vitamin E without other tocopherols:
  • Peat has mentioned in passing, "I think mixed tocopherols are better than just d-alpha...".
  • On the specifics of what d-alpha-tocopherol might do on it's own, there's some conflicting evidence about whether it's a concern. See the topic "Alpha-tocopherol does NOT deplete gamma tocopherol".


Anyone have other comments/contributions?
 

Gabriel

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May 7, 2013
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Great that you are bringing that up Dan, I wanted to write a little bit more about interactions and have something prepared:

Vitamin A

Vitamin D


This is all awfully technical and only very preliminary (need to be confirmed in humans), but basically these results suggest that Vitamin A, D, E, K all interact with each other. That means all of them should be balanced out with each other. This is bringing us back to real foods (=balanced mixtures of all these fat soluble vitamins).

If your extrapolating this to humans it means:

High-dose D: Add K + A
High-dose E: Add K
High-dose A: Add D

[mod]This post contains alternatives to Ray Peat's views. For a full explanation click here.[/mod]
 
J

j.

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Gabriel said:
This is bringing us back to real foods (=mixtures of all these fat soluble vitamins).

Except that people just aren't going to start eating pancreas, the highest organ in K2, so they must take supplements. Moreover, the low toxicity of K2 suggests supplementing it is fine.

Regarding A, with practice and watching symptoms people can supplement fine vitamin A as well. Even having a perfect diet you might need to supplement vitamin A, due to previous health mistakes -maybe extending back to the nutrition of the mother- that don't allow your body to process A well. Even Ray Peat had to take 100,000 IU per day at some point. All these things show that your simple minded idea about going back to real foods to get the right balance of fat soluble vitamins is blatantly wrong, naive, and dangerous.
 

Beebop

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Jan 27, 2013
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I read this a while ago about the synergy of vitamin A and D - article by Chris Masterjohn.

http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cmast ... -diseases/

His concept of autoimmunity seems to be the standard one, but maybe there's some useful info in there.

the same principle demonstrated in this paper with the hormone forms is true of the vitamins themselves: when consumed together, they make each other safe and effective.

This means that the two vitamins are synergistic. It means that if we combine the two, we can use much lower doses of both of them to get the same effect.

What do you reckon?
 

Gabriel

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J, I'm not suggesting to go back to real foods and stick our heads in the sand. I'm saying that the body may run best if everything is in balance.
 

Bluebell

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May 24, 2013
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I think that's a great idea Dan.

I am in the dark a bit with my fat soluble supplementation, just guessing dosages.

I am taking E, but have no idea how much D to take, and am starting to think my K dose is too high as well.

I found out I don't tolerate nutrisorb A so I get my A from liver.
 

chris

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Regarding how much D to take, I researched a little a few weeks ago and decided I want to use 5,000 iu topically when I get round to using D.
 

AJA

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Nov 18, 2017
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I am catching up on my A as of late as I have been supplementing D,E, and K regularly. The A is helping to knock out a middle ear infection that was lingering on. Also, it seems good for for the skin.
 

Dan Wich

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That is a great find! A few interesting iron excerpts I grabbed:

  • Addition of protein to the diet (fish, poultry, meat) increases the absorption of non-heme iron. [34]
  • Different amino acid mixtures promote iron absorption. Cysteine is one of the most efficient. [35/full-text, 36]
  • Use of Zn supplements inhibits iron absorption. [40]
  • Iron absorption from a Zn-Fe supplement decreases progressively as the Zn:Fe ratio increases. [41] (I couldn't find this reference)
 
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