Super bloated belly since childhood

T

TheBeard

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I'd keep the calories a bit lower with starches, as I feel it's easier to stay lean with honey and fruits, vs starches. But that's just my opinion. But also, when I was eating a lot of potatoes, I couldn't eat as many carbs or food in general. About 3000-3200 total, as with more sugar I can easily get 3500-3700 and maintain the same weight.

Are you back to eating whole fruit Hans? Or still juices?
 

Hans

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Are you back to eating whole fruit Hans? Or still juices?
Still fruit juice. :) Honey, milk and fruit juice (apple atm, getting mango and orange soon) are my only carb sources.
 
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Jonnie

Jonnie

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You may want to evaluate your protein intake, and possibly raise it significantly.

This video goes through "The six Fs" of Abdominal Distention-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGG8Gg6HOag


I'm starting to think that most long term issues here arise from fluid, not fat. Abdominal Ascites is well known, but it's mainly thought to occur with cirrhosis. However, we know that other liver issues, such as NAFLD and NASH are very common, and that pretty much all three are the same basic disease. One of the things that's thought to cause Ascites (and edema) is low albumin. Well, if the liver is compromised, and/or protein intake is low, this could lead to chronic hypoalbuminemia.

You can find videos of people getting a significant amount of abdominal fluid drained on youtube. Example-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h6SUIof6Z4


So, after that procedure, that patient looks to have a concave stomach.

If you look up ascites, the none draining treatment is to drink less fluids, take diuretics, eat less salt, and get a shot of albumin. I don't think the "less salt" is good advice, but maybe less fluid, taking a CA inhibitor like acetazolamide or thiamine might be helpful. So might urea. But if you can't get a shot of albumin?

Well, increased protein intake should help you make more. You can either get a serum albumin test, and do a before and after, or just try raising protein quite a bit for a few weeks. If you were, say, eating about 100g of protein, you might wanna try upping it to 150-160g. Or maybe even more.

I know, that's a big jump, but there have been higher intakes studied-


I'm sure there are other issues to address too, like endotoxin, serotinin, estrogen, and such.

Alright, thanks for that.
I’m leaning towards having a SIBO which makes me intolerant to dairy.

It might be difficult for me to get more protein though because dairy is such a great option to get protein from.
 
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Jonnie

Jonnie

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That's my experience too. I'd describe it as a general feeling of just being less inflamed. Much less bloating and holding water overall.
I’d love to eat more fruit but the fruits have really gone downhill here in The Netherlands the past couple of years.
Even in the organic store there are no ripe Exotic fruits, just apples, pears and mandarins that are somewhat sweet.
 

Sefton10

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I’d love to eat more fruit but the fruits have really gone downhill here in The Netherlands the past couple of years.
Even in the organic store there are no ripe Exotic fruits, just apples, pears and mandarins that are somewhat sweet.
Can you get frozen fruit? I buy frozen pineapple, papaya and mango that is sold as a “smoothie mix” that I just defrost and eat. It’s usually really ripe/sweet.
 
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Jonnie

Jonnie

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Can you get frozen fruit? I buy frozen pineapple, papaya and mango that is sold as a “smoothie mix” that I just defrost and eat. It’s usually really ripe/sweet.
Wow that’s actually a great idea, yeah there are mangos, pineapples etc.
I can imagine this to be nice to snack on too.
Great tip
 

gaze

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Can you get frozen fruit? I buy frozen pineapple, papaya and mango that is sold as a “smoothie mix” that I just defrost and eat. It’s usually really ripe/sweet.
does it get expensive using that as a staple?
 

Sefton10

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does it get expensive using that as a staple?
No, it’s actually pretty cheap. £1.25 for a 500g bag (Aldi in UK), I think that’s roughly $1.77.
 

Ben.

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I compared berries "fresh" and frozen ... the frozen ones, even the organic kind are cheaper.

And the frozen one are packaged in paper cartons while the fresh ones are always in plastic containers.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
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You may want to evaluate your protein intake, and possibly raise it significantly.

This video goes through "The six Fs" of Abdominal Distention-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGG8Gg6HOag


I'm starting to think that most long term issues here arise from fluid, not fat. Abdominal Ascites is well known, but it's mainly thought to occur with cirrhosis. However, we know that other liver issues, such as NAFLD and NASH are very common, and that pretty much all three are the same basic disease. One of the things that's thought to cause Ascites (and edema) is low albumin. Well, if the liver is compromised, and/or protein intake is low, this could lead to chronic hypoalbuminemia.

You can find videos of people getting a significant amount of abdominal fluid drained on youtube. Example-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h6SUIof6Z4


So, after that procedure, that patient looks to have a concave stomach.

If you look up ascites, the none draining treatment is to drink less fluids, take diuretics, eat less salt, and get a shot of albumin. I don't think the "less salt" is good advice, but maybe less fluid, taking a CA inhibitor like acetazolamide or thiamine might be helpful. So might urea. But if you can't get a shot of albumin?

Well, increased protein intake should help you make more. You can either get a serum albumin test, and do a before and after, or just try raising protein quite a bit for a few weeks. If you were, say, eating about 100g of protein, you might wanna try upping it to 150-160g. Or maybe even more.

I know, that's a big jump, but there have been higher intakes studied-


I'm sure there are other issues to address too, like endotoxin, serotinin, estrogen, and such.

It was hard to watch the second video, but, it's crazy how different her belly looks after they got the fluid out! Very impressive.

I have to say I downplayed the contribution of water weight to bloating. A couple of weeks back, I was thinking "maybe it's all just gas in the small intestine", but now, after seeing this, I'm thinking about it more along the lines of:
1- Poor stomach acid/ constipation/ low bile
2- Increased bacterial count in the small intestine and even stomach
3- Much more endotoxin being produced and absorbed( the large intestine is adapted to dealing with bacteria, but the small intestine isn't, making the issue much worse)
4- Liver gets taxed, can't convert t4 into t3, can't make enough albumin; the tissues which are most exposed to the toxic LPS get inflammed
5- Water starts leaking from the blood vessels and into the tissues, probably taking sodium along with it( causing low blood sodium, but high tissue sodium)
6- The water structure gets disturbed( the proteins dissolved in the polarized water need to associate with potassium ions, or else, the cells loses its coherent, compact structure and becomes closer to liquid water).
7- Less ATP due to cells being water logged. When the cells are trying to divide, they focus more on inefficient energy producing processes instead of oxidative phosphorylation, losing their structure a little temporarily
8- Less energy produced means worse digestion, and the cycle repeats

People who do a zero- carb, meat only carnivore diet often report that their gut feels and looks much flatter than before. They cut out the endotoxin, and maybe that allows for much lower LPS production in the gut, even though their digestive juice secretion still isn't that great, meaning less inflammation and less strain on the liver, leading to less fluid retention. The extra protein surely helps, as you said.

So it seems that SIBO not only contributes to bloating by causing excessive gas production, but also by causing( sometimes extreme) water retention.

Ma boi Vegetable Police made a video about his experience with fasting causing a loss of water weight.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGrOyrC9ot4
 

Vins7

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Feb 23, 2020
Messages
900
It was hard to watch the second video, but, it's crazy how different her belly looks after they got the fluid out! Very impressive.

I have to say I downplayed the contribution of water weight to bloating. A couple of weeks back, I was thinking "maybe it's all just gas in the small intestine", but now, after seeing this, I'm thinking about it more along the lines of:
1- Poor stomach acid/ constipation/ low bile
2- Increased bacterial count in the small intestine and even stomach
3- Much more endotoxin being produced and absorbed( the large intestine is adapted to dealing with bacteria, but the small intestine isn't, making the issue much worse)
4- Liver gets taxed, can't convert t4 into t3, can't make enough albumin; the tissues which are most exposed to the toxic LPS get inflammed
5- Water starts leaking from the blood vessels and into the tissues, probably taking sodium along with it( causing low blood sodium, but high tissue sodium)
6- The water structure gets disturbed( the proteins dissolved in the polarized water need to associate with potassium ions, or else, the cells loses its coherent, compact structure and becomes closer to liquid water).
7- Less ATP due to cells being water logged. When the cells are trying to divide, they focus more on inefficient energy producing processes instead of oxidative phosphorylation, losing their structure a little temporarily
8- Less energy produced means worse digestion, and the cycle repeats

People who do a zero- carb, meat only carnivore diet often report that their gut feels and looks much flatter than before. They cut out the endotoxin, and maybe that allows for much lower LPS production in the gut, even though their digestive juice secretion still isn't that great, meaning less inflammation and less strain on the liver, leading to less fluid retention. The extra protein surely helps, as you said.

So it seems that SIBO not only contributes to bloating by causing excessive gas production, but also by causing( sometimes extreme) water retention.

Ma boi Vegetable Police made a video about his experience with fasting causing a loss of water weight.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGrOyrC9ot4

This is my experience too. My bloating is not related with exces of gas and It was better when I restricted carbohydrates but I was constipated and with no energy.
What could be the way for healing?
 
Joined
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Messages
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This is my experience too. My bloating is not related with exces of gas and It was better when I restricted carbohydrates but I was constipated and with no energy.
What could be the way for healing?
The best thing to do is probably getting rid of the SIBO. That would directly reduce LPS, take away the strain from the liver and take away the inflammation from the digestive organs. This would really help get rid of the fluid.

The problem is I don't know of any sure-fire way of treating it for good. What people tend to do is basically eliminate foods that cause issues for them. That works very well in the short term, but in the long run, nutrient deficiencies start to appear, cravings get strong, and the moment the person eats what they're craving, the bloating comes back. This can't be how things are supposed to work. A human shouldn't look like they're pregnant after eating a tiny bit of fruit or fiber or even starch.

Some people only have issues with some foods( say onions or certain fruits or starch), and when they remove these things, they feel great and have no bloat. Other people( like myself) bloat after eating pretty much anything. So, for me, I don't believe it's a good idea for me to simply eliminate everything that gives me bloating, or else I'm gonna be fasting.

I think a carnivore diet would be the easiest way to quickly get a flat belly, but I don't crave meat enough to eat just it and nothing else. I crave other things, like carbohydrate and even fiber. It's also really sad for me to have to only eat meat just to feel normal in the gut area. If I craved only meat, I'd do it, but I just don't. Not to mention that there issues with cortisol and protein breakdown( due to gluconeogenesis) on a zero carb diet( which it would have to be, since bacteria love carbs).

I'm pretty lost at trying to solve this. I did a few courses of antibiotics( doxycyline), and they helped with skin and constipation, but the bloating was unchanged after them. Right now, I'm shooting for increased bowel movement frequency through increased intake of tolerable fibers to maybe clean up the biofilms in the gut, and flush the bacteria from the small intestine into the colon. I think this is how you prevent SIBO in the first place( along with strong digestive juice secretion), but I don't know if it can solve it.
 

Ben.

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Location
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The best thing to do is probably getting rid of the SIBO. That would directly reduce LPS, take away the strain from the liver and take away the inflammation from the digestive organs. This would really help get rid of the fluid.

I'm pretty lost at trying to solve this. I did a few courses of antibiotics( doxycyline), and they helped with skin and constipation, but the bloating was unchanged after them.

This is intriguing and i feel like you are onto something. SIBO on its own always confused me tho.

SIBO could be caused/originated due to many reasons i guess?


SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency?

Sergey (sorry for quoting you(allerting you again)) has a great way of explaining/articulating the fungy/bacteria side of it imo:

Quite likely fungi and/or some bacterial species. When grain feeding induces ruminal acidosis in cows thiamine content in their ruminal fluid drops to almost zero. It wipes out thiamine dependant flora and, it seems, thiamine producing flora too.
While methanogenic archaea and fungi thrive.

When thiamine is supplemented normal fermentation pattern and flora profile is restored, and methane output drops.

It seems that overconsumption of starch drives growth of archaea which are quite efficient in displacing many “good” species. And being very resistant to most antimicrobials, they can stay unaffected by antibiotics etc.
They are however susceptible to attacks from
L. Reureri, especially when carbs and polysaccharides are limited.
Almost forgot, omega-3 pufa seem to kill methanogenic archaea too.
Methanogens archaea loves periodontal tissue, and its is probably its very important reservoir. I’d suggest keeping mouth as clean as possible. Brushing after every meal of course. Flossing. Oil pulling - its quite powerful and will drag some stuff out of deep tissues. Keeping meal frequency low, no snacking between meals. You want to give them as little as possible.
Salt water gargling should also help.
I’d also do liposomal biofidin LSF/Cat’s Claw elite from Quicksilver Scientific, holding it in the mouth as long as possible. It should help initially. Any infected tooth should be treated.
Herbs/supps listed above should start reducing the load in the gut, methanogens also love small intestine.
No wonder you got better from zero fiber/starch, they seem to enjoy polysaccharides. If you misss vegetables, fennel bulbs, courgettes and carrots could be tried.
It will take time to heal it, but progress should be noticeable quite soon.
All the above comes just from personal experience/some research papers, so some adjustments might be needed.
You can keep hydrogen producers low by limiting carbs. Its a tricky issue because some hydrogen producers are able to displace methanogens, so its not about eradicating “good bugs”. Only few things can remove methanogens directly, combination of rifaximin and neomycin is often effective (and toxic). Rifaximin itself affects mostly hydrogen producers and could be part of the strategy - less hydrogen->weaker methanogens.
i believe its not about identifying the bug and killing it, rather it about consistently creating a terrain it will not tolerate.
There can be other issues associated with methane sibo which might need addressing. Gut mucosa can be irritated and some supplements/herbs should be postponed in that case, until it heals somewhat.
I probably forgot to mention it, propolis is a good ally here, as well as triphala - all those centuries old “health restoring remedies”.

(SENSITIVE IFNO) Omega 3 fatty acids and good quality olive oil inhibit methanogens.

I personally had some improvement by upping my dental care, applying stuff from this thread:
How to fix gum disease for <$100

My tongue being coated for example was one of the first symptoms that gotten chronic and which i cant seem to get rid of. So far only raw potatoe/resistant starch, low fat/zero fat with (paradoxicaly) alot of fruitjuice/milk helped/made it go away, even if it was just shortterm.
In that sense Twohandsondeck testimonial was interesting. He applyied stuff from the "When A Turk's Bowels Move Less Than Three Times A Day, He Consults A Physician." thread along with resistant starch and beans (karen hurds had a interesting interview). These interventions realy seem to help in that regard that its trying to get the bacteria to feed in the colon and not in the intestines.

Using a antifungal/antiparasetic/antimicrobial herbal+enzyme blend for instance alleviated my issue with weak hair/dandruff/flaky+whitish scalp but only as long as i take it and aslong as i dont dose it to high. Along with the dental work this seems to supress my issues a little but it does not seem to fix the underlying issues.

Sergeys proposal in keeping the terrain hostile in the places where we shouldn't have to many of thoose makes sense. But what is causing it? Why is it for some people getting that bad in the first place? Afterall we are all subjected to thoose things.



Have you guys thought about mechanical obstruction causing it? Muscles/Fascia/Scar tissue disrupting the organs causing less bile or stomache acid to flow/be excreted which then translates to an overwhelming from thoose organisms as a result from it which then leads to inflammation/lack of nutrients which then downspirals into a decrease of metabolic/hormonal function which then again is the reason why one does not get better?

Maybe Rei was right when it came to postural damage afterall ...

Fascial damage is probably the most overlooked field of medicine and ends up being able to explain a whole lot of common chronic conditions. Hormone balances/vitamin,nutrition balance/"parasite",overgrowth etc. are second order effects and usually not causal, yet everyone looks at these.


I for example identified 3-4 spots (Hernia? Triggerpoint?) trough deep thumb massaging of my entire abdomen. Pressure on thoose feel very rewarding but can also feel like pain radianting down towards the pelvic floor or it can feel like fluid/gas moving which funnily enough leads instantly to saliva production/increase in libido. Certain stretches/excercises affecting the abdomen/hip specifically also seem to directly, positively influence my stomache and bloowdflow to the head.

Since i cannot seem to figure out how to go about this i'll may try to contact an physiotheraphist/osteopath with an open mind and a long history of expertise. The last 3 days i tried to sleep on the floor as a few excercises for a few mins a day does not seem to be enough to fix this properly. It feels oddly satisfying, altough not comfortable. The body defenietly seems to do some postural work laying on such a hard surface.

Hehe, "oh, my neck snapped" "i felt it in my ears" yeah, once you have thousands of those snaps over hundreds of days not only in the neck but all over your body your chronic postural damage will be fixed. It starts at one point, and will move all over the place in the process of healing and doing the fascial realignment.

That captures kind of how i feel lying on the floor but less in terms of snapping and more in the body moving its structures internally.

I found an older thead with an interesting "paper":

Instinctive sleeping and resting postures: an anthropological and zoological approach to treatment of low back and joint pain

"You probably do not know that nature has provided an automatic manipulator to correct most spinal and peripheral joint lesions in primates."

"Nature's automatic manipulator during sleep is the kickback against the vertebrae by the ribs when the chest is prevented from movement by the forest floor"

"Various resting postures correct different joints"



 

Vins7

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Joined
Feb 23, 2020
Messages
900
The best thing to do is probably getting rid of the SIBO. That would directly reduce LPS, take away the strain from the liver and take away the inflammation from the digestive organs. This would really help get rid of the fluid.

The problem is I don't know of any sure-fire way of treating it for good. What people tend to do is basically eliminate foods that cause issues for them. That works very well in the short term, but in the long run, nutrient deficiencies start to appear, cravings get strong, and the moment the person eats what they're craving, the bloating comes back. This can't be how things are supposed to work. A human shouldn't look like they're pregnant after eating a tiny bit of fruit or fiber or even starch.

Some people only have issues with some foods( say onions or certain fruits or starch), and when they remove these things, they feel great and have no bloat. Other people( like myself) bloat after eating pretty much anything. So, for me, I don't believe it's a good idea for me to simply eliminate everything that gives me bloating, or else I'm gonna be fasting.

I think a carnivore diet would be the easiest way to quickly get a flat belly, but I don't crave meat enough to eat just it and nothing else. I crave other things, like carbohydrate and even fiber. It's also really sad for me to have to only eat meat just to feel normal in the gut area. If I craved only meat, I'd do it, but I just don't. Not to mention that there issues with cortisol and protein breakdown( due to gluconeogenesis) on a zero carb diet( which it would have to be, since bacteria love carbs).

I'm pretty lost at trying to solve this. I did a few courses of antibiotics( doxycyline), and they helped with skin and constipation, but the bloating was unchanged after them. Right now, I'm shooting for increased bowel movement frequency through increased intake of tolerable fibers to maybe clean up the biofilms in the gut, and flush the bacteria from the small intestine into the colon. I think this is how you prevent SIBO in the first place( along with strong digestive juice secretion), but I don't know if it can solve it.
I have all symptoms (bloating, bad digestion, not being regular and constipation...) But my two lactulose tests are negative for SIBO...
Low fodmaps diet is really really restrictive so, as you say, it's just a short term solution.
 

tankasnowgod

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Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
It was hard to watch the second video, but, it's crazy how different her belly looks after they got the fluid out! Very impressive.

I have to say I downplayed the contribution of water weight to bloating. A couple of weeks back, I was thinking "maybe it's all just gas in the small intestine", but now, after seeing this, I'm thinking about it more along the lines of:
1- Poor stomach acid/ constipation/ low bile
2- Increased bacterial count in the small intestine and even stomach
3- Much more endotoxin being produced and absorbed( the large intestine is adapted to dealing with bacteria, but the small intestine isn't, making the issue much worse)
4- Liver gets taxed, can't convert t4 into t3, can't make enough albumin; the tissues which are most exposed to the toxic LPS get inflammed
5- Water starts leaking from the blood vessels and into the tissues, probably taking sodium along with it( causing low blood sodium, but high tissue sodium)
6- The water structure gets disturbed( the proteins dissolved in the polarized water need to associate with potassium ions, or else, the cells loses its coherent, compact structure and becomes closer to liquid water).
7- Less ATP due to cells being water logged. When the cells are trying to divide, they focus more on inefficient energy producing processes instead of oxidative phosphorylation, losing their structure a little temporarily
8- Less energy produced means worse digestion, and the cycle repeats

People who do a zero- carb, meat only carnivore diet often report that their gut feels and looks much flatter than before. They cut out the endotoxin, and maybe that allows for much lower LPS production in the gut, even though their digestive juice secretion still isn't that great, meaning less inflammation and less strain on the liver, leading to less fluid retention. The extra protein surely helps, as you said.

So it seems that SIBO not only contributes to bloating by causing excessive gas production, but also by causing( sometimes extreme) water retention.

Ma boi Vegetable Police made a video about his experience with fasting causing a loss of water weight.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGrOyrC9ot4


This makes me think of this study by Volek-


It shows great mass and truck fat loss on very low carb (though the huge lean mass loss in men should absolutely be a concern). But what's more interesting to me is the breakdown of diet-

Volek breakdown.png


While the carbs are too low from a Peat perspective, and the 4g increase is PUFA isn't good either, a lot of beneficial things did happen on VLCK- Protein went up, Saturated fat went up, cholesterol more than doubled, and starch and fiber went down. Some of the initial water weight loss is likely due to glycogen, but with less endotoxin and serotonin, and more protein and albumen, there might have been additional water weight loss (edema/ascites) too.
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
This is my experience too. My bloating is not related with exces of gas and It was better when I restricted carbohydrates but I was constipated and with no energy.
What could be the way for healing?

What I am personally playing around with right now-

Increasing protein intake, trying to hit at least 160g most days (I'm 5'11"), with more being better. Balancing that with extra glycine.
Making sure any fluid I drink is more hypertonic (salt, potassium, and sugar being some of the key things).
Doing a no starch diet (I do tend to cook french fries in either beef tallow or HCO once a week, but otherwise, nothing).
Eating lots of sugar (fruit is good, but I get more from juice, soda, simple syrup, and honey). I'm at the point where I basically feel like, the more, the better.
Keeping the gut clean (I have some antibiotics and flowers of sulfur, also use carrot).
Using CA inhibitors, like acetazolamide and thiamine.

I have been using Prog + DHEA for a while now, and have gotten some great anti-catabolic muscle effects from them. Just a few days eating more protein has made me feel "jacked" even more. I'm not worrying too much about fat, but am cutting it where I can, like using 1% milk and non fat greek yogurt. But will still have beef with a little bit more fat, and full fat cheeses. I am also using more eggs.

The higher protein and progesterone actually lines up really well some of the things Peat stated on the recent Roddy/Haidut livestream-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06rVi8iXfI
 

rei

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Aug 6, 2017
Messages
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The last 3 days i tried to sleep on the floor as a few excercises for a few mins a day does not seem to be enough to fix this properly. It feels oddly satisfying, altough not comfortable. The body defenietly seems to do some postural work laying on such a hard surface.
Laying on a different surface than you are used to creates the ground work by statically affecting the lines of tension, this results in realignment when you change position. It's kind of like long-term gentle stretching that makes the whole a bit more receptive to manipulation by movement. By having introspection and actively participating in the movements you will amplify the effectiveness/how much change can happen immensely and it looks something like this:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WysHRgQFIlo
But if you are a restless sleeper and move around much during the night you know 1: you have enough energy reserves to do some work not only deep sleep 2: your body is using great effort trying to restore posture. Setting up a video camera and film yourself over the night can teach you a lot.
That captures kind of how i feel lying on the floor but less in terms of snapping and more in the body moving its structures internally.
The snapping is when highly stressed lines of tension realign, but most of the time it is much subtler. Every layer of injury is usually one main snap, and then much work to realign the fascial network around the new "center of balance". Once it is balanced, the next "snap" is free to happen, and then again a process of subtler realigning which feel like you describe.
I found an older thead with an interesting "paper":

Instinctive sleeping and resting postures: an anthropological and zoological approach to treatment of low back and joint pain

"You probably do not know that nature has provided an automatic manipulator to correct most spinal and peripheral joint lesions in primates."

"Nature's automatic manipulator during sleep is the kickback against the vertebrae by the ribs when the chest is prevented from movement by the forest floor"

"Various resting postures correct different joints"



Yes, sleep has a very important restorative role, also in posture.
 
Last edited:
T

TheBeard

Guest
The best thing to do is probably getting rid of the SIBO. That would directly reduce LPS, take away the strain from the liver and take away the inflammation from the digestive organs. This would really help get rid of the fluid.

The problem is I don't know of any sure-fire way of treating it for good. What people tend to do is basically eliminate foods that cause issues for them. That works very well in the short term, but in the long run, nutrient deficiencies start to appear, cravings get strong, and the moment the person eats what they're craving, the bloating comes back. This can't be how things are supposed to work. A human shouldn't look like they're pregnant after eating a tiny bit of fruit or fiber or even starch.

Some people only have issues with some foods( say onions or certain fruits or starch), and when they remove these things, they feel great and have no bloat. Other people( like myself) bloat after eating pretty much anything. So, for me, I don't believe it's a good idea for me to simply eliminate everything that gives me bloating, or else I'm gonna be fasting.

I think a carnivore diet would be the easiest way to quickly get a flat belly, but I don't crave meat enough to eat just it and nothing else. I crave other things, like carbohydrate and even fiber. It's also really sad for me to have to only eat meat just to feel normal in the gut area. If I craved only meat, I'd do it, but I just don't. Not to mention that there issues with cortisol and protein breakdown( due to gluconeogenesis) on a zero carb diet( which it would have to be, since bacteria love carbs).

I'm pretty lost at trying to solve this. I did a few courses of antibiotics( doxycyline), and they helped with skin and constipation, but the bloating was unchanged after them. Right now, I'm shooting for increased bowel movement frequency through increased intake of tolerable fibers to maybe clean up the biofilms in the gut, and flush the bacteria from the small intestine into the colon. I think this is how you prevent SIBO in the first place( along with strong digestive juice secretion), but I don't know if it can solve it.

Have you tried anti-parasitic medications?

No matter what your stool test tells you, you could have parasites.
 

Vins7

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Joined
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Messages
900
Me he estado informando y encontré algo interesante.

¿Y si esta hinchazón constante fue causada más bien por un debilitamiento de los músculos profundos del abdomen y los ligamentos responsables de sujetar el intestino y otras vísceras debido al estilo de vida sedentario y la mala postura durante años y no por una mala flora intestinal, etc.?

Esta puede ser la causa y generar problemas digestivos y estreñimiento y evidentemente acentuarse cuando se introduce más volumen de alimento en el organismo (más frutas, carbohidratos en general, son menos saciantes y ocupan más volumen que comer carne y grasa que ocupa menos espacio en relación a la saciedad y las calorías que aportan).

En mi caso, puedo notar que incluso en ayunas, cuando bebo una buena cantidad de agua / cualquier líquido me hincha instantáneamente, mi intestino y mis intestinos caen en el momento en que bebo.

Pf: i'm skinny (1,77 65kg) and I have shred six pack, it's related to fat. I have other metabolic symptoms like cold feets and hands and no morning woods.

 

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This is intriguing and i feel like you are onto something. SIBO on its own always confused me tho.

SIBO could be caused/originated due to many reasons i guess?


SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency?

Sergey (sorry for quoting you(allerting you again)) has a great way of explaining/articulating the fungy/bacteria side of it imo:




I personally had some improvement by upping my dental care, applying stuff from this thread:
How to fix gum disease for <$100

My tongue being coated for example was one of the first symptoms that gotten chronic and which i cant seem to get rid of. So far only raw potatoe/resistant starch, low fat/zero fat with (paradoxicaly) alot of fruitjuice/milk helped/made it go away, even if it was just shortterm.
In that sense Twohandsondeck testimonial was interesting. He applyied stuff from the "When A Turk's Bowels Move Less Than Three Times A Day, He Consults A Physician." thread along with resistant starch and beans (karen hurds had a interesting interview). These interventions realy seem to help in that regard that its trying to get the bacteria to feed in the colon and not in the intestines.

Using a antifungal/antiparasetic/antimicrobial herbal+enzyme blend for instance alleviated my issue with weak hair/dandruff/flaky+whitish scalp but only as long as i take it and aslong as i dont dose it to high. Along with the dental work this seems to supress my issues a little but it does not seem to fix the underlying issues.

Sergeys proposal in keeping the terrain hostile in the places where we shouldn't have to many of thoose makes sense. But what is causing it? Why is it for some people getting that bad in the first place? Afterall we are all subjected to thoose things.



Have you guys thought about mechanical obstruction causing it? Muscles/Fascia/Scar tissue disrupting the organs causing less bile or stomache acid to flow/be excreted which then translates to an overwhelming from thoose organisms as a result from it which then leads to inflammation/lack of nutrients which then downspirals into a decrease of metabolic/hormonal function which then again is the reason why one does not get better?

Maybe Rei was right when it came to postural damage afterall ...




I for example identified 3-4 spots (Hernia? Triggerpoint?) trough deep thumb massaging of my entire abdomen. Pressure on thoose feel very rewarding but can also feel like pain radianting down towards the pelvic floor or it can feel like fluid/gas moving which funnily enough leads instantly to saliva production/increase in libido. Certain stretches/excercises affecting the abdomen/hip specifically also seem to directly, positively influence my stomache and bloowdflow to the head.

Since i cannot seem to figure out how to go about this i'll may try to contact an physiotheraphist/osteopath with an open mind and a long history of expertise. The last 3 days i tried to sleep on the floor as a few excercises for a few mins a day does not seem to be enough to fix this properly. It feels oddly satisfying, altough not comfortable. The body defenietly seems to do some postural work laying on such a hard surface.



That captures kind of how i feel lying on the floor but less in terms of snapping and more in the body moving its structures internally.

I found an older thead with an interesting "paper":

Instinctive sleeping and resting postures: an anthropological and zoological approach to treatment of low back and joint pain

"You probably do not know that nature has provided an automatic manipulator to correct most spinal and peripheral joint lesions in primates."

"Nature's automatic manipulator during sleep is the kickback against the vertebrae by the ribs when the chest is prevented from movement by the forest floor"

"Various resting postures correct different joints"



Hum... so bad posture could be causing the poor digestion in the first place? I do notice that, when I'm very bloated( I get a lot of fluid retention when I sleep too little), keeping good posture is almost impossible, because contracting your lower abdominal muscles( to move the pelvic region forward, where it should be) is uncomfortable, it feels like they're stretching too much. Contracting the abs when bloated also prevents proper belly breathing in my experience .

I agree, It still seems to form a vicious cycle, in which bad digestion leads to poor posture, and poor posture causes bad digestion. The solution maybe is to eat what doesn't give you any bloating for a while until you can fix your posture for good?

I wonder too why some people can have bad posture and still have a flat belly. I know of a few singers who visibly have bad posture( round shoulders, forward neck), and still maintain a very flat belly. I noticed that singing while bloated severely reduces the amount of air the lungs can hold, making throat strain and more frequent breathing more common.

Sleeping or just laying on a flat surface is interesting. I'll try it out.

This makes me think of this study by Volek-


It shows great mass and truck fat loss on very low carb (though the huge lean mass loss in men should absolutely be a concern). But what's more interesting to me is the breakdown of diet-

View attachment 22987

While the carbs are too low from a Peat perspective, and the 4g increase is PUFA isn't good either, a lot of beneficial things did happen on VLCK- Protein went up, Saturated fat went up, cholesterol more than doubled, and starch and fiber went down. Some of the initial water weight loss is likely due to glycogen, but with less endotoxin and serotonin, and more protein and albumen, there might have been additional water weight loss (edema/ascites) too.
Very true. People usually look down on losing water weight, saying they "didn't lose fat, it was just water", but just losing fluid can have a dramatic effect, and, although people do want to lose fat, I think it is easy to underestimate how much difference edema can make. It's not fat, but, appearance- wise, it makes the person look fat( and it's very uncomfortable in the gut), and if people realized this, they would see water weight loss much more favorably.

Have you tried anti-parasitic medications?

No matter what your stool test tells you, you could have parasites.
Warning for TMI, but I used to see some weird stuff in the toilet after my number 2. They looked like worms, but I can't be sure they were actually parasites. Maybe it's one of those elusive ropeworms that people report seeing.

I took albendazole many years ago( probably half decade at this point), but it didn't seem to do much for bloating. Maybe I didn't take it long enough? I remember I was scared of liver damage from taking it, that's why I didn't use it for very long( less than a week I think). Do you think it's worth trying again?

I heard of people using a combination of herbs( black walnut hull, wormwood and cloves) to treat parasites. Hans himself took it and said his belly was much flatter after it. Do you have any experience with this combination, or with any pharmaceutical medications for treating these critters?

Me he estado informando y encontré algo interesante.

¿Y si esta hinchazón constante fue causada más bien por un debilitamiento de los músculos profundos del abdomen y los ligamentos responsables de sujetar el intestino y otras vísceras debido al estilo de vida sedentario y la mala postura durante años y no por una mala flora intestinal, etc.?

Esta puede ser la causa y generar problemas digestivos y estreñimiento y evidentemente acentuarse cuando se introduce más volumen de alimento en el organismo (más frutas, carbohidratos en general, son menos saciantes y ocupan más volumen que comer carne y grasa que ocupa menos espacio en relación a la saciedad y las calorías que aportan).

En mi caso, puedo notar que incluso en ayunas, cuando bebo una buena cantidad de agua / cualquier líquido me hincha instantáneamente, mi intestino y mis intestinos caen en el momento en que bebo.

Pf: i'm skinny (1,77 65kg) and I have shred six pack, it's related to fat. I have other metabolic symptoms like cold feets and hands and no morning woods.

That's a good point about the volume. Eating a pound or two of fatty meat a day would be all one would eat if they were on the carnivore diet. Compare that with eating a lower fat diet, especially with no refined carbs. Easily 6+ pounds of food per day.

Same with regards to ingesting water. I immediately bloat up in the belly area. More corroboration that fluid retention may well be the most likely explanation for the issue. Now I have more body fat, so I can't see my abs anymore, but even 2 or 3 years ago, when I could, underneath the muscles there was clearly a lot of bloating.

I'm definitely not against bloating being caused by poor posture, but it seems that every time I fast a little bit( especially after having a bowel movement), my bloating goes down and I naturally tilt my pelvis forward while walking. I think I only slouch because it's tiresome to keep a good posture while carrying a huge distension in the central area of the body. I'm willing to try to fix it to see if my gut improves though. Maybe that's the way out.
 

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