Sun, Tanning, Vitamin D: I Wonder What Dr. Peat Thinks

narouz

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Along with my (past) Mercola influenced diet came my Mercola influenced tanning.
Mercola's view is that tanning--best outside but in good tubes too--is great
because it may be the best way to get Vitamin D: by making it. He refers to a researcher
who argues that the oral or skin-applied D doesn't really do the trick.

But I haven't read anything by Peat that I recall on tanning.
He might think the radiation dangers
outweigh the Vitamin D considerations.
I've read that he sees real danger in x-rays.
And I've read that he applies Vitamin D to himself sometimes.
So maybe he doesn't think the sun/tanning is necessary or helpful.

Has anybody seen anything from Peat on this?
 

charlie

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good question. hoping somebody who knows something chimes in.
 

stevensmith

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Dr. Peat is very against radiation. I think UV B radiation is a lot worse than UV A. And to avoid B, you have to check the times of day where you are sunning. As for tanning beds, I must say that they might be one of Mercola's worst snake oil schemes yet. Sure, a tanning bed might effectively increase vitamin D, but at the prices he is charging, you could go to a tanning salon for like 300 years. I don't hate, and I happen to like Mercola, but he is turning into the kind of person you don't really want to listen to. On one hand, he preaches natural diets of raw meat, and raw milk, etc, and on the other, he sells boatloads of supplements out the kazoo, and charges top dollar. Isn't that the least bit contradictory?

From what I've learned in my studies, as long as the metabolic rate is high, and the nutrition is good, one can avoid the negative effects of radiation, including melanoma, and other issues. Cancer is largely an internal battle, even if the scrimmages are fought on the skin. It still all has to do with whether one is healthy enough to have proper cellular respiration. And that deals a lot more with thyroid, and proper nutrition, than anything else. So, no I don't think tanning is inherently bad, provided that someone does it sensibly, tries to avoid getting burnt, and has proper nutrition/metabolism.
 

stevensmith

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Oh yeah, and as for the oral vitamin D, it is bull**** compared to vitamin D from the sun. And besides, there are plenty more benefits of the sun than vitamin D alone, and the studies that have to do with the benefits of vitamin D are exceptionally skewed. For example, there have been papers that purport the benefits of oral vitamid D, even though the studies referenced at the end were from research dealing with tanning, and had nothing to do with oral vitamin d. Just another scheme to sell supplements...
 

jmthomp1

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I believe the vitamin d comes from the blue type wavelengths (UVA UVB) but also causes a lot of problems in humans. The red light spectrums heal and calm excitation, counteracting the potential damage of the blue light in sunlight. I think Peat's problem with tanning beds is a general lack of the beneficial red light, and a large presence of blue. I would imagine that if you got a tanning bed with much more red light than blue Peat would go for it. Not sure what the tech specs of Mercola's tanning beds are...
 

charlie

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So I am probably doing myself damage by going out and getting a little sun everyday at high noon like Mercola suggests? Mercola says you get the most benefit when the sun is at its highest setting in the sky.
 

cliff

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Ray thinks the sun is beneficial and only not beneficial if you get burned. So basically going out at high noon is good if you don't get burned.
 

ericrlepine

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Correct Cliff... Again, it's all context-dependent here... You can go out in the sun at whatever time, it doesn't matter, just as long as you don't burn... Just like you wouldn't set out to do sprint repeats after being sedentary for 20 years, you probably shouldn't be spending 4 hours in the sun between 10am and 2pm on your first day of a trip to the tropics if you're travelling from the Northern Hemisphere. But, if you're in the sun all day all the time (i.e., you've built up a tan) or if you're very dark-skinned, then you'll need more sun at peak times to get the necessary beneficial effects... It's all relative...
 

peatarian

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Ray Peat always recommends the sun but doesn't recommend sun burn since it is stress. After all it's a burn wound. But he told me once that he used to burn easily until he used a big dosage of vitamin D. I am sure he used it on his skin since he is not a fan of using these PUFA oils orally. But I cannot tell anybody how much he considers a big dosage.

Tanning is a protective action not something positive as I understand it. I don't think being tan in itself is beneficial. But if you want to produce vitamin D which since it is closely connected with vitamin A and calcium you need to see the sun at noon because the biggest proportion of vitamin D is produced by the eyes.

I use vitamin D daily in winter. Of course I would prefer the sun but it isn't always an option.
 

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cliff

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peatarian said:
Tanning is a protective action not something positive as I understand it. I don't think being tan in itself is beneficial.

The tanner you are the more you can be out in the sun without getting a sunburn so you get a lot more beneficial light.
 

nwo2012

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Yes he definitely recommends the sun, without burning. Vit D supplement is for winter only. Btw you need the sun to be 50 degrees above the horizon (at least) for UVBs (for Vit D). I always check which hours for any given area I will be sunning in on any given day especially if I dont have much time.

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.php

You can google the latitude/longitude of any location.

Yes Mercola is some good but also a snake oil seller.
And not least, demonizer of fructose!!!!!
 

peatarian

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cliff said:
peatarian said:
Tanning is a protective action not something positive as I understand it. I don't think being tan in itself is beneficial.

The tanner you are the more you can be out in the sun without getting a sunburn so you get a lot more beneficial light.

You're right: If you are in the sun and have enough vitamin D you will tan. Since it is a protective reaction of your skin it has a protective effect. But tanning in itself is not beneficial. So a tanning salon f.i. is not a good thing, the sun is.

Since most sun blockers are highly dangerous Ray Peat suggests wearing long sleeved shirts in orange or red, a big hat and long trousers. But if you have to expose your skin to the sun for a longer period he suggests zinc oxide as best protection. I mixed zinc oxide with coconut oil - it turns your skin a little white but it works very well against sunburn.
 

charlie

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peatarian said:
But if you want to produce vitamin D which since it is closely connected with vitamin A and calcium you need to see the sun at noon because the biggest proportion of vitamin D is produced by the eyes.


This is the first I have heard about the eyes and vitamin D. I went and looked around the web and get conflicting data. Some say yes, some say no its mostly through the skin. Does anyone really know? :lol: :confused
 

peatarian

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Good point. I checked on pubmed and tried to find something but the data is not clear. The newer evidence says 'might be generated in the eye'. I only recall that Ray Peat advised me not to wear sunglasses and to look into the sun for a few moments every now and then. The rest (about vitamin D being produced in the eyes) was not from him. I suppose it's really mostly the skin and some of it is generated in the eye. That would make more sense. The infrared lights are supposed to shine on as much naked skin as possible and so is the sun. Thank you for being accurate, Charlie.

'Vitamin D might be generated in the eye by UVB – May 2012

Enhancement of Vitamin D Metabolites in the Eye Following Vitamin D3 Supplementation and UV-B Irradiation.
Curr Eye Res. 2012 May 25.
Lin Y, Ubels JL, Schotanus MP, Yin Z, Pintea V, Hammock BD, Watsky MA.
Department of Entomology & Cancer Center, University of California , Davis, CA , USA.

Purpose: This study was designed to measure vitamin D metabolites in the aqueous and vitreous humor and in tear fluid, and to determine if dietary vitamin D3 supplementation affects these levels. We also determined if the corneal epithelium can synthesize vitamin D following UV-B exposure.

Methods: Rabbits were fed a control or vitamin D3 supplemented diet. Pilocarpine-stimulated tear fluid was collected and aqueous and vitreous humor were drawn from enucleated eyes. Plasma vitamin D was also measured. To test for epithelial vitamin D synthesis, a human corneal limbal epithelial cell line was irradiated with two doses of UV-B (10 and 20 mJ/cm(2)/day for 3 days) and vitamin D was measured in control or 7-dehydrocholesterol treated culture medium. Measurements were made using mass spectroscopy.

Results: 25(OH)-vitamin D3 and 24,25(OH)(2)-vitamin D3 increased significantly following D3 supplementation in all samples except vitreous humor.

Tear fluid and aqueous humor had small but detectable 1,25(OH)(2)-vitamin D3 levels.
Vitamin D2 metabolites were observed in all samples.
Vitamin D3 levels were below the detection limit for all samples.
Minimal vitamin D3 metabolites were observed in control and UV-B-irradiated epithelial culture medium except following 7-dehydrocholesterol treatment, which resulted in a UV-B-dose dependent increase in vitamin D3, 25(OH)-vitamin D3 and 24,25(OH)(2)-vitamin D3.

Conclusions: There are measurable concentrations of vitamin D metabolites in tear fluid and aqueous and vitreous humor, and oral vitamin D supplementation affects vitamin D metabolite concentrations in the anterior segment of the eye. In addition, the UV exposure results lead us to conclude that corneal epithelial cells are likely capable of synthesizing vitamin D3 metabolites in the presence of 7-dehydrocholesterol following UV-B exposure.

PMID: 22632164

Page last modified on 29 of May, 2012'
 

charlie

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We will need to thank narouz for that. He is teaching me by example on how to question everything. :lol:
 

narouz

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Yes, the eye making vitamin D thing,
I've never heard of that.

And peatarian, about tanning beds...
I'm already spending a lot of time under fluorescent,
lot of time behind a computer monitor,
not much time outdoors...

I was thinking if good tanning booths try to emulate the sun's rays,
and especially the suns tanning rays I guess...
...seems like the perfect Peat Light option.
Except of course that is so limited in duration.
But then: it is extremely intense. Even more so than the sun...?
 

cliff

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narouz said:
Yes, the eye making vitamin D thing,
I've never heard of that.

And peatarian, about tanning beds...
I'm already spending a lot of time under fluorescent,
lot of time behind a computer monitor,
not much time outdoors...

I was thinking if good tanning booths try to emulate the sun's rays,
and especially the suns tanning rays I guess...
...seems like the perfect Peat Light option.
Except of course that is so limited in duration.
But then: it is extremely intense. Even more so than the sun...?

Like Peatarian said tanning booths are not beneficial because they don't have any red light. The radiation is slightly immunosuppressive so getting it without the light isn't good. Getting a tan from the sun is much better since the light balances out the radiation.
 

charlie

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Some places do have red light booths. It doesn't tan you and is for red light therapy.
 

Mikelovesicecream

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I love sitting out in the sun almost every day for atleast 15-25 minutes. I feel as if the sun does more than just help you with vitamin D. Like it's essential and interacts positively with your body and has many benefits. I just don't feel optimal if I go a few days without some nice sunlight.
 
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