Suggestions For Borderline?

[Greg says]

I appreciate that, the insightful perspective, a differing one, is light shown from another window.

"For those habituated to high levels of internal stress since early childhood, it is the absence of stress that creates unease, evoking boredom and a sense of ... adrenaline and cortisol, Hans Selye observed. to such persons, stress feels desirable, while the absence of it feels like something to be avoided." - Gabor Mate MD.

'People who have had terrible childhood experiences for whatever reason have altered thyroid metabolism. They are more complex to treat. They are different from everyone else biochemically and pharmacologically'. - Dr. David Derry

 

[tara]

I like the ideas @Tarmander and @Janelle525 posted.

I having focussing on meeting basic needs - including food - and avoid obvious harm - including alcohol - before doig more than than the smallest quantities of supplements (other than maybe some small to moderate mineral and vitamin supps if you can't get those fully covered by food yet).

due to limited funds

Stop spending money on poison. :)

I think some of the long term health issues associated with alcoholism are caused by malnutrition - alcohol displacing nutritious food.
Could be that making a point of eating 4+ good nutritious meal a day, using cronometer or similar to ensure you meet all the basic micro nutrient needs, and ignoring it's calorie restriction advice in favour of decent amounts of protein, fruits, roots, milk, starches etc depending on what your system can use, might make it somewhat more possible to abstain from your current less than supportive carbohydrate of choice.

 

[papaya]

I got my life back with cyproheptadine. Very small dose too. I may have thyroid/adrenal problems but F that I was on thyroid for 1.5 years and I'm not going to try that again. I'm not obese either. Weight stable for at least 6 months at 120-121. Hasn't changed at all. No matter my activity or diet.

I had a few symptoms of a personality disorder as well. I'd say after all the work I've done I only have a few lingering issues when my hormones are out of balance. It's all about balance yo!

Self love is difficult if you are used to drowning your sorrows or repressing emotions. I love somatic experiencing it's all about regulating your nervous system.

Anyway here is what east west healing has to say about jumping on the thyroid bandwagon:
"Principles are many, experiences are few. Here are my experiences, not based on a book, research, an MD or PhD. Based on working with real life humans, crazy right, for the past 15yrs.
*
Taking T3 alone does not mean that your cells will be able to use it. Most of the time there are other issues that are already showing you this on your lab. Such as liver storage issues, liver burden issues with estrogen, and more.
*
It can be paired with T4 (synthroid) etc, but has a short half life so has to be dosed quite often. It actually works better this way than taking it all at 1x during the day.
*
BUT, which means forget everything I said prior to this, lol. This is what I have seen over the years…..
*
Most people are taking it because they bought it online, bought it from friggin mexico where nothing is regulated, self diagnose, play MD and take it themselves OR even worse, recommend it to their clients. *
For one, most people don’t know enough about themselves or their biochemistry to just take a medication. You don’t even know what is in you are taking? You don’t know if you have a heart condition? You don’t even know….anything and you think its ok to take or prescribe T3 to anyone and everyone. Sorry but this ***t is ******* crazy wack!
*
Lastly, T3 revs the engine big time. It is what drives your metabolism, your cells and energy production. If, and most likely, your body is in a weakened, hyper cortisol and adrenaline state, and you take T3 without any form of foundation that is beginning to regulate the stress reaction….taking T3 by itself will push your body deeper into the stress reaction. I have seen it many times with people calling us or even clients we work with that decide to take it. What are the repercussions…rapid heart rate, constant state of sweating, inability to sleep, anxiety and more. Its like my example yesterday of the car with a broken down engine and you put a nitrous button in that car and hit the button. What is going to happen to the engine…BOOM!
*
ALWAYS FOOD FIRST! "

i've been on ndt for a very long time. i've tried to get off but i always go back. i'd like to try to maybe cycle it by going off it for 3 days a month or 3 days every 2 wks or just taking it 2 or 3 x's a wk. do you have any suggestions on what i should do? also, how do you feel about progesterone? i notice that i have some symptoms of this disorder during pms. should i take progesterone 2wks a month or every day, or not at all???

 

[Memento]

'People who have had terrible childhood experiences for whatever reason have altered thyroid metabolism. They are more complex to treat. They are different from everyone else biochemically and pharmacologically'. - Dr. David Derry

Where is this from? Sounds plausible and interesting.

 

[InChristAlone]

i've been on ndt for a very long time. i've tried to get off but i always go back. i'd like to try to maybe cycle it by going off it for 3 days a month or 3 days every 2 wks or just taking it 2 or 3 x's a wk. do you have any suggestions on what i should do? also, how do you feel about progesterone? i notice that i have some symptoms of this disorder during pms. should i take progesterone 2wks a month or every day, or not at all???

Sounds like it might be difficult to come off thyroid. I didn't notice a difference when I went off because I was so chronically stressed that the 1 grain I took in the morning was probably doing nothing. Some people do rely on it and that's fine if dosed properly.

Progesterone will help make thyroid work better. Use 2nd half of cycle. I use physiological doses so just several mg per dose.

 

[Greg says]

Where is this from? Sounds plausible and interesting.

From this interview...
UK Fibromyalgia - Thyroid Treatment and FM

 

[Frankdee20]

A lot of these suggestions and insights are probably true. Maybe I need the drama, maybe boredom is something I haven’t made peace with, maybe I have an altered stress response, etc. I don’t post this stuff to get attention, there were some criticisms of me that were well warranted. I post because I felt it was a safe forum and outlet, where people could relate. I haven’t the slightest idea what could be wrong, or what could help. I’m also a god damn addict and I feel I’m fighting two beasts simultaneously that feed off each other. I’ve been quiet the last few days, today I’m starting a taper method using beer only, and a journal to monitor my alcohol intake. The withdrawals are getting worse and worse, I played with fire, so it’s my own fault. I’m not looking for pitty or sympathy, I just wanted to vent. I really just want to taper down my booze and be normal again, even if it’s short lived. I honestly don’t know what ails me sometimes, but I know I want to remain alive. That’s all I want.

 

[thomas00]

I got my life back with cyproheptadine. Very small dose too. I may have thyroid/adrenal problems but F that I was on thyroid for 1.5 years and I'm not going to try that again. I'm not obese either. Weight stable for at least 6 months at 120-121. Hasn't changed at all. No matter my activity or diet.

I had a few symptoms of a personality disorder as well. I'd say after all the work I've done I only have a few lingering issues when my hormones are out of balance. It's all about balance yo!

Self love is difficult if you are used to drowning your sorrows or repressing emotions. I love somatic experiencing it's all about regulating your nervous system.

Anyway here is what east west healing has to say about jumping on the thyroid bandwagon:
"Principles are many, experiences are few. Here are my experiences, not based on a book, research, an MD or PhD. Based on working with real life humans, crazy right, for the past 15yrs.
*
Taking T3 alone does not mean that your cells will be able to use it. Most of the time there are other issues that are already showing you this on your lab. Such as liver storage issues, liver burden issues with estrogen, and more.
*
It can be paired with T4 (synthroid) etc, but has a short half life so has to be dosed quite often. It actually works better this way than taking it all at 1x during the day.
*
BUT, which means forget everything I said prior to this, lol. This is what I have seen over the years…..
*
Most people are taking it because they bought it online, bought it from friggin mexico where nothing is regulated, self diagnose, play MD and take it themselves OR even worse, recommend it to their clients. *
For one, most people don’t know enough about themselves or their biochemistry to just take a medication. You don’t even know what is in you are taking? You don’t know if you have a heart condition? You don’t even know….anything and you think its ok to take or prescribe T3 to anyone and everyone. Sorry but this ***t is ******* crazy wack!
*
Lastly, T3 revs the engine big time. It is what drives your metabolism, your cells and energy production. If, and most likely, your body is in a weakened, hyper cortisol and adrenaline state, and you take T3 without any form of foundation that is beginning to regulate the stress reaction….taking T3 by itself will push your body deeper into the stress reaction. I have seen it many times with people calling us or even clients we work with that decide to take it. What are the repercussions…rapid heart rate, constant state of sweating, inability to sleep, anxiety and more. Its like my example yesterday of the car with a broken down engine and you put a nitrous button in that car and hit the button. What is going to happen to the engine…BOOM!
*
ALWAYS FOOD FIRST! "

Josh Rubin being a bit hysterical there.

 

[raypeatclips]

Josh Rubin being a bit hysterical there.

He has a point though. Shows the nature of the forum when someone questioning taking thyroid ordered from a Mexican drug store is seen as hysterical. People take multiple research chemicals at once here not under doctor supervision.

 

[thomas00]

People have reported the Mexican thyroid being stronger than European and other first world country brands. That's reason enough not to be so quick to automatically rubbish the quality of certain products just because it's from one of those poor countries we westerners like to laugh at.

Thyroid is barely a drug. It can be considered a food. Sounds like Rubin is mired in some naturalistic fallacy where taking pills is something that should be frowned upon and an absolute last resort. It's pretty dogmatic.

For those of us who can't get far with simple diet changes, his advice blows. You'll notice Ray doesn't have the same attitude as he does. Kind of the opposite if anything.

Most if not all of the research chemicals people here use are infinitely safer than the poisons you'd be Rx'ed by a typical doctor.

 

[thomas00]

The one person I've met with (suspected) borderline was-

-an absolute control freak who who wouldn't accept anything less than 100% control of every situation
-amazing manipulative
-totally unreasonable
-never unjustified (according to them)
-pretty vindictive
-vegetarian
-never trusted doctors and relied on the worst alternative health sources imaginable
-easily bored and jumped from one insane career move to the next
-couldn't get along with anyone

the worst of it seemed like a kind of unconcious defence strategy they'd employed to help them survive

 

[Frankdee20]

I’m not that intense, and it’s just suspicion. I said I don’t know what ails me at this point.

 

[InChristAlone]

People have reported the Mexican thyroid being stronger than European and other first world country brands. That's reason enough not to be so quick to automatically rubbish the quality of certain products just because it's from one of those poor countries we westerners like to laugh at.

Thyroid is barely a drug. It can be considered a food. Sounds like Rubin is mired in some naturalistic fallacy where taking pills is something that should be frowned upon and an absolute last resort. It's pretty dogmatic.

For those of us who can't get far with simple diet changes, his advice blows. You'll notice Ray doesn't have the same attitude as he does. Kind of the opposite if anything.

Most if not all of the research chemicals people here use are infinitely safer than the poisons you'd be Rx'ed by a typical doctor.

I wouldn't say infinitely. There have been people in a lapse of memory taking these chemicals and overdosing on accident. I'm not against people buying from other countries, I bought cypro from India and prefer it over haidut's as it is easier to dose under 1 mg.

The problem I have with the recommendations that nearly everyone on the planet needs thyroid is that there are legitimate reasons the body is wanting to slow down, and I personally like to uncover those reasons before pulling the throttle.

 

[Herbie]

On some threads there are people on the forum posting studies showing people stuck in learned helplessness, stuck in the mundane job is slowly killing them now on this thread being bored and changing careers, seeking novelty is a disorder of the personality.

I can take the symptoms of BPD and find how it relates to my past actions and patterns but reading about these disorders and associating them with myself are like tarot card readings.

 

[tara]

Most if not all of the research chemicals people here use are infinitely safer than the poisons you'd be Rx'ed by a typical doctor.

Rather depends on one's approach. Used carelessly, recklessly or in ignorance, as sometimes happens here, some of them can get people into serious trouble too.
Doctors often (I know, not always) are careful to prescribe within some kinds of margins.

 

[DaveFoster]

"For those habituated to high levels of internal stress since early childhood, it is the absence of stress that creates unease, evoking boredom and a sense of ... adrenaline and cortisol, Hans Selye observed. to such persons, stress feels desirable, while the absence of it feels like something to be avoided." - Gabor Mate MD.

'People who have had terrible childhood experiences for whatever reason have altered thyroid metabolism. They are more complex to treat. They are different from everyone else biochemically and pharmacologically'. - Dr. David Derry

"pharmacologically"

 

[DaveFoster]

The one person I've met with (suspected) borderline was-

-an absolute control freak who who wouldn't accept anything less than 100% control of every situation
-amazing manipulative
-totally unreasonable
-never unjustified (according to them)
-pretty vindictive
-vegetarian
-never trusted doctors and relied on the worst alternative health sources imaginable
-easily bored and jumped from one insane career move to the next
-couldn't get along with anyone

the worst of it seemed like a kind of unconcious defence strategy they'd employed to help them survive

Yeah, that doesn't sound too uncommon.

 

[Peatogenic]

"For those habituated to high levels of internal stress since early childhood, it is the absence of stress that creates unease, evoking boredom and a sense of ... adrenaline and cortisol, Hans Selye observed. to such persons, stress feels desirable, while the absence of it feels like something to be avoided." - Gabor Mate MD.

'People who have had terrible childhood experiences for whatever reason have altered thyroid metabolism. They are more complex to treat. They are different from everyone else biochemically and pharmacologically'. - Dr. David Derry

I love that second quote. After years of perceiving, it feels so true. Trauma disorders are an incredibly complex biochemical injury.