Sugars From Fruit And Milk Vs. Starches

[Zachs]

There are studies that show fat, especially saturated fat increase endotoxin load and carbs do not. I'm not sure the mechanism starch has for endotoxin but it seems to me that the fiber combined with starch clears endotoxin way faster than a low residue diet. As for starch being fattening, don't eat a lot of fat with it, problem solved. I think the combination of fat and starch is detrimental, not helpful.

 

[XPlus]

There are studies that show fat, especially saturated fat increase endotoxin load and carbs do not. I'm not sure the mechanism starch has for endotoxin but it seems to me that the fiber combined with starch clears endotoxin way faster than a low residue diet. As for starch being fattening, don't eat a lot of fat with it, problem solved. I think the combination of fat and starch is detrimental, not helpful.

Yeah, this is spot on for those with an established SIBO.
I used to go through hell processing those bedtime lamb chops.
The endotoxin comes from bacteria processing the poorly digested bits of starch.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Honestly if I eat starch I ruin my calorie goals for the day, it just fills the stomach too much for the calorie that it gives. I also can't eat or drink anything for the next five hours or I fall asleep, dry mouth, etc. Stomach distension also releases insulin if I remember right.

 

[Zachs]

Yeah, this is spot on for those with an established SIBO.
I used to go through hell processing those bedtime lamb chops.
The endotoxin comes from bacteria processing the poorly digested bits of starch.

I figured that bacterial fermentation must play a role. Like i said though, eating a good quantity of fiber pushes starch through relatively fast and also sweeps out endotoxin and estrogen. Compare that to a low residue diet, high in fat and animal products and I believe the endotoxin load would be much higher. At least it was for me.

Overall it seems like meat and fat contribute to a lot of stress markers, starch and sugar are pretty benign in that aspect.

 

[Zachs]

Honestly if I eat starch I ruin my calorie goals for the day, it just fills the stomach too much for the calorie that it gives. I also can't eat or drink anything for the next five hours or I fall asleep, dry mouth, etc. Stomach distension also releases insulin if I remember right.

I had this same issue at first, only being able to eat twice a day. My digestion got more efficient though with time and especially after I lost all the fat and cleared pufa from tissues. Now I eat a big starch based meal until my stomach is pushed out and it's flat within 1-2 hours. Knowing the right foods to pair together and avoiding most fats and proteins except coconut with the meal helps greatly with that.

 

[XPlus]

Honestly if I eat starch I ruin my calorie goals for the day, it just fills the stomach too much for the calorie that it gives. I also can't eat or drink anything for the next five hours or I fall asleep, dry mouth, etc. Stomach distension also releases insulin if I remember right.

Qalorie goals are for the anorexic.
Last weak I made myself a big pot of pasta.
I had to end the work day with charcoal smoothies

I figured that bacterial fermentation must play a role. Like i said though, eating a good quantity of fiber pushes starch through relatively fast and also sweeps out endotoxin and estrogen. Compare that to a low residue diet, high in fat and animal products and I believe the endotoxin load would be much higher. At least it was for me.

Overall it seems like meat and fat contribute to a lot of stress markers, starch and sugar are pretty benign in that aspect.

I agree. Too much meat and fat are terrible for digestion. Specially if the meat is old.
My experience with starch is that it's still problematic but less problematic as health gets better.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I've been close to 1% PUFA for the last 10% of my life...

 

[answersfound]

I've been close to 1% PUFA for the last 10% of my life...

That's crazy dog. When I lived in Italy, that would have been fairly easy. In the US, not so much. Only if you live in California, could that be a reasonable possibility.

 

[Such_Saturation]

That's crazy dog. When I lived in Italy, that would have been fairly easy. In the US, not so much. Only if you live in California, could that be a reasonable possibility.

I used to do it with full fat milk, it's not too hard. My stomach is also flat two hours after starch, but it still messes up calories because you are sedated and the hunger is gone for hours. By calorie goals I mean I can't reach the basic 2000kcal, not that I go over. Starch has ***t density on a practical level.

 

[Agent207]

I used to do it with full fat milk, it's not too hard. My stomach is also flat two hours after starch, but it still messes up calories because you are sedated and the hunger is gone for hours. By calorie goals I mean I can't reach the basic 2000kcal, not that I go over. Starch has **** density on a practical level.

If the starch does indeed raise insulin and clear sugar levels that fast, the hunger should come shortly I guess.

 

[Such_Saturation]

If the starch does indeed raise insulin and clear sugar levels that fast, the hunger should come shortly I guess.

Not if you're sleeping through it

 

[Zachs]

Weird, man. I can crush 1500 cal starch meals easy. Starch gives me lasting energy aswell, I feel lighter, not bogged down.

 

[Such_Saturation]

That's like two and a half pounds of rice.

 

[Zachs]

Lol! Yea I don't eat pure rice. I combine a lot of starches, like tortillas, rice, beans, corn, sweet potatoes, bread. Plus I eat a lot of sugar, refined or from fruit. Plus I never really drink water, usually coconut water, juice or cola.

 

[Agent207]

Coke is one of the Peat promoting things that sounds like a joke; in fact I think its more of a perpetuating and over emphasizing fact around the forum, taken from an anecdotic thing from some article or interview.

Promoting shitty soda beverages loaded with phosphoric acid between another excipients and artificial swetteners does not seem a smart choice. I would eat walnuts prior to coke if was pushed to pick one. Not a drink of coke will kill you, not a walnut neither.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Coke does give me clogged nose but it's instantaneous so it could be the carbonation. But Ray Peat does mention Coke quite often.

 

[Giraffe]

There are studies that show fat, especially saturated fat increase endotoxin load and carbs do not.

One such study is linked here https://raypeatforum.com/community/...ets-contain-higher-amounts-of-endotoxin.8709/.

They used 300 kcal drinks, 10 minutes to finish the drink. As "saturated fat" served heavy whipping cream (70% saturated).

One problem I have with that study is: there is no way I would get down that amount of fat in one sitting without my gut revolting.

Have you seen better designed studies than that one?

 

[Zachs]

I'll have to look, I'm on my phone so it makes searching difficult. I have seen that study though and Dr Gregors interpretations.

You couldn't get down 3/4 cup cream in one sitting? I was drinking a pint split up twice a day when I was really into my saturated fat thing. Pretty damn tasty.

 

[Giraffe]

You couldn't get down 3/4 cup cream in one sitting?

It would cause flatulence and malodorous stools.

 

[cantstoppeating]

I like how both sides say milk or starch is fine if your health is good. Well a healthy food should create good health, not require it in the first place.

That intuitive but incorrect notion speaks to the hidden assumption that most of us come into Peating with: food alone should be able to restore and maintain a great metabolism.

It works both ways; they're intertwined: the state of the body affects what foods one can eat as much as the food affects the state of the body.

The practical use of thyroid, antibiotics, pregnenolone, progesterone etc are often great tools to affect the state of the body in a favourable way i.e. maintain a high oxidative metabolism.