Sugars From Fruit And Milk Vs. Starches

[Richiebogie]

Hi @Giraffe, what was the old title?

 

[Giraffe]

Hi @Giraffe, what was the old title?

"I Think It’s Best To Get As Much Sugar And Starch In Your Diet" - RP

 

[lvysaur]

Some are operating on the assumption that others have unnecessary orthorexia because of Peat's "word".

In my personal experience, I disregarded most of Peat's claims at first, save PUFA avoidance. Then I noticed that ocasional carrots helped, and after a while, I realized that leaves gave me bad symptoms, and that milk/sugar kept me in an optimal state, etc.

My experience with Peat is that I'll occasionally try one of the things I've been disregarding, and find that it drastically improves my life, more often than not.

Additionally, just because Peat says something is okay, doesn't mean it is biologically optimal. He agrees that lifestyle stress can be even stronger than food stress. The stress saved from the high availability of inferior food and high mental stimulation of a varied diet can sometimes outweigh the stress saved from a hard to find, expensive, and boring diet.

If your body handles bacteria well, and you like vegetables, and furthermore, you really like the idea of eating vegetables, then perhaps it would be good for you to eat vegetables. So if you email Peat asking if it's okay to eat steamed spinach/beans/fried donuts/IPAs/pharmaceutical estrogen pills, he'll probably say yes, because 1. You're obviously eating it without notably ill effects, so it's not doing too much bad, 2. You obviously want to eat it, because you're asking him. The combination of both of these facts makes it likely that eating said food will be a net stress reduction, so Peat says it's okay, because he wants you to be healthy (joking about the estrogen pills of course).

This does not mean that you should try to convince everyone on the forum to eat boiled spinach and give up milk. Likewise, just because someone chooses to do that, it does not mean that they are necessarily unhealthy.

 

[milk_lover]

Some are operating on the assumption that others have unnecessary orthorexia because of Peat's "word".

In my personal experience, I disregarded most of Peat's claims at first, save PUFA avoidance. Then I noticed that ocasional carrots helped, and after a while, I realized that leaves gave me bad symptoms, and that milk/sugar kept me in an optimal state, etc.

My experience with Peat is that I'll occasionally try one of the things I've been disregarding, and find that it drastically improves my life, more often than not.

Additionally, just because Peat says something is okay, doesn't mean it is biologically optimal. He agrees that lifestyle stress can be even stronger than food stress. The stress saved from the high availability of inferior food and high mental stimulation of a varied diet can sometimes outweigh the stress saved from a hard to find, expensive, and boring diet.

If your body handles bacteria well, and you like vegetables, and furthermore, you really like the idea of eating vegetables, then perhaps it would be good for you to eat vegetables. So if you email Peat asking if it's okay to eat steamed spinach/beans/fried donuts/IPAs/pharmaceutical estrogen pills, he'll probably say yes, because 1. You're obviously eating it without notably ill effects, so it's not doing too much bad, 2. You obviously want to eat it, because you're asking him. The combination of both of these facts makes it likely that eating said food will be a net stress reduction, so Peat says it's okay, because he wants you to be healthy (joking about the estrogen pills of course).

This does not mean that you should try to convince everyone on the forum to eat boiled spinach and give up milk. Likewise, just because someone chooses to do that, it does not mean that they are necessarily unhealthy.

Very nicely put!
I follow Peat not because he asked me to follow him; I follow him because I experiment with his ideas and I find them most of the time work perfectly for my body like more milk, more coffee, aspirin, fat-soln vitamins, sucrose, fructose, liver and seafood weekly, red light, CO2, lowering NO, lowering cortisol prolactin estrogen and serotonin. It all has worked wonders for my body. The biggest factor was removing starch, PUFA, and fermented food like yogurt and pickles. Niacinamide, pregnenolone, DHEA, biotin, thiamine, B6, copper, magnesium, B2, theanine, BCAA, CO, carrots, cascara sargada, EVERYTHING makes PERFECT SENSE. EVERYTHING is connected so well I wonder if Peat has a map on his wall of all these health parameters and substances. The man clearly knows his stuff! and haidut haidut haidut is the man who mostly helped me understand Peat's enlightening look on human body!

 

[Peater Piper]

Niacinamide, pregnenolone, DHEA, biotin, thiamine, B6, copper, magnesium, B2, theanine, BCAA, CO, carrots, cascara sargada, EVERYTHING makes PERFECT SENSE. EVERYTHING is connected so well I wonder if Peat has a map on his wall of all these health parameters and substances.

I thought the optimal Peat diet included almost no supplements?

 

[milk_lover]

I thought the optimal Peat diet included almost no supplements?

If I were healthy to start with, I would stick to the diet only. But I had compromised health after being under extreme stress in graduate school while doing extremely low carb diet for a year. I think those supplements in my case are needed to pick me up from the mess I was in. Once my health becomes stable, I see myself ditching a lot of those supplements or use them occasionally when needed.

 

[Peater Piper]

Understood. I've been trying to get by with mostly diet (the foods that I can tolerate, and I definitely need to add more liver and shellfish), but I'm thinking I'll need to start trying out some supplements for the extra "umph" as well.

 

[tara]

This does not mean that you should try to convince everyone on the forum to eat boiled spinach and give up milk. Likewise, just because someone chooses to do that, it does not mean that they are necessarily unhealthy.

+1

 

[Jayfish]

Indeed. Dr. Peat has mentioned the sugars from mushrooms in his september newsletter issue. Trehalose I believe it was called.

By the way, he mentions in the video above that hydrogenated coconut oil is preferential to regular coconut oil due to zero pufa content. Still he recommends eating eggs as a part of one's diet. Wouldn't even one single egg provide more pufa than you would ever get from any type of coconut oil (in a day) and thus make the hydrogenated coconut oil kind of a moot point?

Eggs have a lot of nutrition, as well as seafood. Coconut oil is just fat. So as far as using the best coconut oil, hydrogenated is best. As far as food goes, eggs, seafood, organ and gelatinous meat from ruminents is best because of the insane amount of vitamins and minerals in them. The pufa is also relatively low in these foods compared to other other meats, fish and plant foods.

 

[toucan]

I heard potato starch and cinnamon are good for insulin resistance.. Potato starch ? how can this be true ? If carbohydrates are needed for weight gain.. what forms are best ?

 

[Jsaute21]

if one is to consume a starch (potato or white rice) should one consume a sugar with it?

 

[Entropy]

I was thinking the other day how the body can crave fruit juices, not typically the sugar from it, but the flavors that come with it.

 

[DaveFoster]

Despite Westside PUFAs misinformation here, Ray Peat in the recent years has made an effort to avoid all starches, replacing it with orange juice, fruits, milk and white sugar (coke I guess). He changed idea about starchy foods, and he considers them to be more inflammatory now than then.

On that note, I ate two large plates of pasta last night (corn and rice pasta), and this is the first day in 3 weeks where I have noticeable fibromyalgia pain with no particular added stressor in the picture.

Yes, in fact I work at a bakery and eat a 6 pack of the oatmeal date bagels quite often.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

On that note, I ate two large plates of pasta last night (corn and rice pasta), and this is the first day in 3 weeks where I have noticeable fibromyalgia pain with no particular added stressor in the picture.

1. I don't know how a direct audio quote classifies as "misinformation." Peat has said those things but he's also said other things. He used to think mushrooms were toxic then he wrote a whole newsletter on how great they are because of simple research that made him change his mind.

2. This other recent direct audio quote is from 12/16/16:

 

[DaveFoster]

1. I don't know how a direct audio quote classifies as "misinformation." Peat has said those things but he's also said other things. He used to think mushrooms were toxic then he wrote a whole newsletter on how great they are because of simple research that made him change his mind.

2. This other recent direct audio quote is from 12/16/16:

I think the same sentiment can be applied to exercise; an athlete can exercise a lot and stay very healthy, but a normal (average) person can only exercise a moderate amount.

Anywho, everyone who doesn't demonize sugar agrees that certain fruits are optimal foods for man anyway (mainly tropical fruits) due to their palatability, lack of antinutrients/antimetabolic factors, minimal effect on gut bacteria, nutrient density, keto acids, water content, etc.

Some don't even do well on fruit anyway, and lumping starch together as good food is foolish; potatoes are the best starch, but if one could replace the starch in a potato with sucrose, it would be a better food according to Peat's approach.

 

[Dobbler]

Is there any reason to eat starch instead of fruit? On my current diet the only thing i crave is potatoes, i think because of the high insulin response they give, but my gut is so bad after i eat them i get depressed and gut inflammation gets worse so while i crave them, i feel horrible after eating them. So please someone convince me that fruit is better energy and health wise so i can forget about potatoes. :)

 

[Wagner83]

Rice or potatoes can be a good source of carbs if you don't get bad digestive issues form it (and of course you need some time to adapt to a lot of foods), there are different sorts of rice , most make me constipated although I recently tried thai jasmine rice and it seems it was ok, mor experimenting needed. Wheat works okayish too. Most fruits are not ripe and full of fibers and water than quality sugar and vitamins.

 

[johnwester130]

does this refer to starch in isolation (which few people do) ?

starch with coconut oil would produce a different effect ??

it would be impossible to eat starch in isolation, and this would cause problems.

 

[Braveheart]

if one is to consume a starch (potato or white rice) should one consume a sugar with it?

Did you ever find an answer to this?