Sugar And Wrinkles?

forterpride

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Jun 7, 2013
Messages
176
Hello friends.I have been on RP for 6 months now...mainly to stabilize my hairline since I went off Propecia...and unbelievably my hair is thicker than when I was on the drug. My worry however is that I'm trading hair for wrinkled skin since all I hear and read on the web is about how sugar causes glycation and is responsible for aging skin. Can someone please in laments terms quell my fears about this and explain to me where people like Dr Oz and others get the idea that sugar causes wrinkles? Thank you!
 

FunkOdyssey

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Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
75
forterpride said:
Hello friends.I have been on RP for 6 months now...mainly to stabilize my hairline since I went off Propecia...and unbelievably my hair is thicker than when I was on the drug. My worry however is that I'm trading hair for wrinkled skin since all I hear and read on the web is about how sugar causes glycation and is responsible for aging skin. Can someone please in laments terms quell my fears about this and explain to me where people like Dr Oz and others get the idea that sugar causes wrinkles? Thank you!

High blood sugar, sustained over long periods of time, causes wrinkles. Eating sugar does not. The best measure of long-term exposure to high blood sugar, and thus the best indicator of glycation, is the HbA1c test:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003640.htm
 

Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
Messages
2,034
I think by glycation you meant "advanced glycation end products,". In main stream science it is blamed on
glucose. But Ray Peat has a different view on this.PUFA causes aging and wrinkles on skin. Here is a quote from RP
"The fragments of deteriorating PUFA combine with proteins and other cell materials, producing immunogenic substances. The so-called "advanced glycation end products," that have been blamed on glucose excess, are mostly derived from the peroxidation of the "essential fatty acids." The name, “glycation,” indicates the addition of sugar groups to proteins, such as occurs in diabetes and old age, but when tested in a controlled experiment, lipid peroxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids produces the protein damage about 23 times faster than the simple sugars do (Fu, et al., 1996)." -- http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/un ... fats.shtml
Chris Masterjohn has also written an excellent article on "AGEP" showing what RP figure out long time ago.
Most people got this idea wrong, partially because the naming of this condition is misleading.
http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/ ... rom-o.html
 

Peata

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Jun 12, 2013
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Forterpride, have you noticed any change in your skin since you've been Peating for 6 mos?

I had the same concern as you when I started, but as long as I stick to my Peat guidelines I am actually looking better, which is very reassuring. It's odd how when I followed mainstream ideas of what to eat to look and feel great I was looking and feeling not so great, and now with this added sugar and other Peatian principles, I feel like I might be reversing some skin issues.
 

chris

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Do you have any idea what made the most positive difference to your hair?
 

forterpride

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Messages
176
Ok guys...sorry it's been so long. Soooo...I've been on a strict Peat diet (maybe a cheat meal once every 2 weeks max) of basically just oj, milk, coffee, oysters, gelatin, dark chocolate, chicharrones, and homemade french fries with coconut oil and 1oz of liver a day. I work and study all day with a 250Winfrared bulb..bag breathe for 2 minutes 5-7 times a day...and I take 25mcg of T3 day and 1/3 cyno at night. WEEEEELL..My results have been nothing short of amazing. My hair loss has actually slightly reversed with my crown thicker than ever. My skin has never looked this good. My anxiety and insomnia which I had for a decade is non-existent. My senses have improved. My blood pressure finally dropped 20 points to 108/76. My cholesterol was high for about a year..and then slowly started going down to about 210 now. Anyways...I am so gratefull that I stumbled across Ray Peats work which never would have happened if my hair didn't start falling out..so I am thankfull that it did. I can't imagine having gone all through life (Im 32 now) jumping from one thing to the other. Ray Peat is a God if there ever was such a thing.
 

Amazoniac

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forterpride said:
Ok guys...sorry it's been so long. Soooo...I've been on a strict Peat diet (maybe a cheat meal once every 2 weeks max) of basically just oj, milk, coffee, oysters, gelatin, dark chocolate, chicharrones, and homemade french fries with coconut oil and 1oz of liver a day. I work and study all day with a 250Winfrared bulb..bag breathe for 2 minutes 5-7 times a day...and I take 25mcg of T3 day and 1/3 cyno at night. WEEEEELL..My results have been nothing short of amazing. My hair loss has actually slightly reversed with my crown thicker than ever. My skin has never looked this good. My anxiety and insomnia which I had for a decade is non-existent. My senses have improved. My blood pressure finally dropped 20 points to 108/76. My cholesterol was high for about a year..and then slowly started going down to about 210 now. Anyways...I am so gratefull that I stumbled across Ray Peats work which never would have happened if my hair didn't start falling out..so I am thankfull that it did. I can't imagine having gone all through life (Im 32 now) jumping from one thing to the other. Ray Peat is a God if there ever was such a thing.

Hi forterpride,

Thank you for sharing! It's always interesting to know how people are doing after a long time of implementing Ray Peat's recommendations.
 

Dutchie

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Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
764
Hi Forterpride,

As far as the hairgrowth I can't say,but in my personal experience I found that sugar indeed causes deep wrinkles in my forehead,which makes me look old&tired. (In the morning when I wake up, I do feel tired after days where I ate apparently too much sugars). It's only when I started decreasing sugars and avoiding lactose(&cowdairy alltogether),especially higher free fructose foods,that my skin started to look better again.
And so I've experienced that the theory about PUFAS being the evil to wrinkles is a little bit too black&white for me.
I wholeheartedly agree that vegetable PUFA oils aren't something to ingest on a daily basis,but I also found that swapping sugars for some more leafy greens and other vegetables,occasonal fatty fish actually make my skin look less wrinkled and younger&fresher. So,in my opinion some Omega 3's from food (not supplements) are beneficial.
 

tara

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Mar 29, 2014
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forterpride said:
Ok guys...sorry it's been so long. Soooo...I've been on a strict Peat diet (maybe a cheat meal once every 2 weeks max) of basically just oj, milk, coffee, oysters, gelatin, dark chocolate, chicharrones, and homemade french fries with coconut oil and 1oz of liver a day. I work and study all day with a 250Winfrared bulb..bag breathe for 2 minutes 5-7 times a day...and I take 25mcg of T3 day and 1/3 cyno at night. WEEEEELL..My results have been nothing short of amazing. My hair loss has actually slightly reversed with my crown thicker than ever. My skin has never looked this good. My anxiety and insomnia which I had for a decade is non-existent. My senses have improved. My blood pressure finally dropped 20 points to 108/76. My cholesterol was high for about a year..and then slowly started going down to about 210 now. Anyways...I am so gratefull that I stumbled across Ray Peats work which never would have happened if my hair didn't start falling out..so I am thankfull that it did. I can't imagine having gone all through life (Im 32 now) jumping from one thing to the other. Ray Peat is a God if there ever was such a thing.
Thanks for this report - glad it's worked so well for you!
 

artemis

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Dec 19, 2014
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Some members on these forums like to ask "Where are the success stories?" I've come across quite a lot of them, they're just scattered all over. Thanks for sharing yours.
 

answersfound

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I'm about a month away from being a success story. Things recently clicked for me. And I've been lurking around these forums for about 2.5 years. And I was in awful shape. My body temp was in the 94's. I was miserable. I always knew In my heart the answer was in ray peats work.
 

forterpride

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Dutchie said:
Hi Forterpride,

As far as the hairgrowth I can't say,but in my personal experience I found that sugar indeed causes deep wrinkles in my forehead,which makes me look old&tired. (In the morning when I wake up, I do feel tired after days where I ate apparently too much sugars). It's only when I started decreasing sugars and avoiding lactose(&cowdairy alltogether),especially higher free fructose foods,that my skin started to look better again.
And so I've experienced that the theory about PUFAS being the evil to wrinkles is a little bit too black&white for me.
I wholeheartedly agree that vegetable PUFA oils aren't something to ingest on a daily basis,but I also found that swapping sugars for some more leafy greens and other vegetables,occasonal fatty fish actually make my skin look less wrinkled and younger&fresher. So,in my opinion some Omega 3's from food (not supplements) are beneficial.


Hmm...Well I consume almost a half a cup at least of white sugar every day in addition to the OJ and chocolate and my skin has never looked better. I also avoid the sun hitting my face like the plague even though I sit in the sun with just boxers on and a boonie cover for about 20 minutes a day. (I live in Bakersfield California. While there is lot's of bad air, one giant plus is we have the most amount of sunny days in the entire country!) I wouldn't dare experiment with Omega 3 and vegetables (just me personally) because I don't crave them at all and I wouldn't want to put my hair gains at risk. But that's just paranoid me. I feel like my diet is so locked in that I'm completely in tune with myself now. I nibble on aspirin crystals throughout the day, have a teaspoon of salt here and there whenever I feel a little stress. I just love being able to do 3 or 4 things quickly that I know will bring me back to feeling good. (A big glass of sugared milk with coffee, gelatin, a minute or 2 of bag breathing in the sun and a little t3 and BAM! I feel like a goddamned terminator. (Pardon the language but it's just so incredibly empowering how I feel compared to when I used to pound protein shakes, tofu steaks, beet spinach smoothies and fast once a week. I THOUGHT I felt good...but now that I am where I am I realize that it's soooo easy to convince yourself that your feeling great when you think you are eating healthy. Now I am sooooooo relaxed. Sooooo much happier. Soooo much more connected with the food I eat. Its funny because whenever my friends eat a big chipotle burrito (which I love once in a great while) I know they might enjoy it more than the glass of oj and salted milk I might have...BUT...withing 10 minutes...they feel tired and like ***t whereas I feel better within minutes of EVERYTHING i eat. That's key to me and keeps me on track. I might CRAVE something grainy and full of PUFAS...but as soon as I get some salt and sugar in me, those cravings are gone and I feel sooo much better with what I eat instead.
 

Dutchie

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Nov 21, 2012
Messages
764
forterpride said:
Dutchie said:
Hi Forterpride,

As far as the hairgrowth I can't say,but in my personal experience I found that sugar indeed causes deep wrinkles in my forehead,which makes me look old&tired. (In the morning when I wake up, I do feel tired after days where I ate apparently too much sugars). It's only when I started decreasing sugars and avoiding lactose(&cowdairy alltogether),especially higher free fructose foods,that my skin started to look better again.
And so I've experienced that the theory about PUFAS being the evil to wrinkles is a little bit too black&white for me.
I wholeheartedly agree that vegetable PUFA oils aren't something to ingest on a daily basis,but I also found that swapping sugars for some more leafy greens and other vegetables,occasonal fatty fish actually make my skin look less wrinkled and younger&fresher. So,in my opinion some Omega 3's from food (not supplements) are beneficial.


Hmm...Well I consume almost a half a cup at least of white sugar every day in addition to the OJ and chocolate and my skin has never looked better. I also avoid the sun hitting my face like the plague even though I sit in the sun with just boxers on and a boonie cover for about 20 minutes a day. (I live in Bakersfield California. While there is lot's of bad air, one giant plus is we have the most amount of sunny days in the entire country!) I wouldn't dare experiment with Omega 3 and vegetables (just me personally) because I don't crave them at all and I wouldn't want to put my hair gains at risk. But that's just paranoid me. I feel like my diet is so locked in that I'm completely in tune with myself now. I nibble on aspirin crystals throughout the day, have a teaspoon of salt here and there whenever I feel a little stress. I just love being able to do 3 or 4 things quickly that I know will bring me back to feeling good. (A big glass of sugared milk with coffee, gelatin, a minute or 2 of bag breathing in the sun and a little t3 and BAM! I feel like a goddamned terminator. (Pardon the language but it's just so incredibly empowering how I feel compared to when I used to pound protein shakes, tofu steaks, beet spinach smoothies and fast once a week. I THOUGHT I felt good...but now that I am where I am I realize that it's soooo easy to convince yourself that your feeling great when you think you are eating healthy. Now I am sooooooo relaxed. Sooooo much happier. Soooo much more connected with the food I eat. Its funny because whenever my friends eat a big chipotle burrito (which I love once in a great while) I know they might enjoy it more than the glass of oj and salted milk I might have...BUT...withing 10 minutes...they feel tired and like s*** whereas I feel better within minutes of EVERYTHING i eat. That's key to me and keeps me on track. I might CRAVE something grainy and full of PUFAS...but as soon as I get some salt and sugar in me, those cravings are gone and I feel sooo much better with what I eat instead.

That's great that you have bouts where you feel like The Terminator!:)
I certainly do relate to the blissfull feelings of food,I experienced these too but I think in my case they aren't always reliable,in that they're probably fake temporary feelings of bliss.
The last couple of days have been sunny&fairly warm over here and I immediately notice that my foodcravings start to change and probably come closer to a more Peat-inspired way of eating,bc on these types of days my cravings for fatty fish and certain veggies totally disappear and I also crave meat a lot less. Which makes me think that a more Peatish way of eating only works for me when it's really sunny outside,though I don't know about it gutwise,that still seems less beneficial (the warmth is probably more stressfull between 12 and 15h as that's the peak time of the sun).
Since you mention living in Cali,it makes sense that Peating works better for you overall.:) (Iwish it wasn't so weather dependant in my case)
Last week I had to write an article about Epigenetics&the food&lifestyle of our grandparents and how that still affects us. It actually made a lot of sense to me,why I (Europeans) struggle with a yearround Peatish diet. The lack of sunshine (&possibly cold and other factors) probably triggers or suppresses the wrong methylated genes.
 

tomisonbottom

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Apr 17, 2013
Messages
907
forterpride said:
Ok guys...sorry it's been so long. Soooo...I've been on a strict Peat diet (maybe a cheat meal once every 2 weeks max) of basically just oj, milk, coffee, oysters, gelatin, dark chocolate, chicharrones, and homemade french fries with coconut oil and 1oz of liver a day. I work and study all day with a 250Winfrared bulb..bag breathe for 2 minutes 5-7 times a day...and I take 25mcg of T3 day and 1/3 cyno at night. WEEEEELL..My results have been nothing short of amazing. My hair loss has actually slightly reversed with my crown thicker than ever. My skin has never looked this good. My anxiety and insomnia which I had for a decade is non-existent. My senses have improved. My blood pressure finally dropped 20 points to 108/76. My cholesterol was high for about a year..and then slowly started going down to about 210 now. Anyways...I am so gratefull that I stumbled across Ray Peats work which never would have happened if my hair didn't start falling out..so I am thankfull that it did. I can't imagine having gone all through life (Im 32 now) jumping from one thing to the other. Ray Peat is a God if there ever was such a thing.

Wow, liver every day! How do you prepare your oyster and liver? Those are the two things I've never been able to do.
 
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tomisonbottom said:
Wow, liver every day! How do you prepare your oyster and liver? Those are the two things I've never been able to do.


Do you like smoothies? I make a coffee/gelatin/sugar/milk/cocoa/liver smoothie, it tastes like a mocha.

Don't use too much more than an ounce of frozen liver or else you'll begin to taste the liver....ick *shudders*.
 

forterpride

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Messages
176
tomisonbottom said:
forterpride said:
Ok guys...sorry it's been so long. Soooo...I've been on a strict Peat diet (maybe a cheat meal once every 2 weeks max) of basically just oj, milk, coffee, oysters, gelatin, dark chocolate, chicharrones, and homemade french fries with coconut oil and 1oz of liver a day. I work and study all day with a 250Winfrared bulb..bag breathe for 2 minutes 5-7 times a day...and I take 25mcg of T3 day and 1/3 cyno at night. WEEEEELL..My results have been nothing short of amazing. My hair loss has actually slightly reversed with my crown thicker than ever. My skin has never looked this good. My anxiety and insomnia which I had for a decade is non-existent. My senses have improved. My blood pressure finally dropped 20 points to 108/76. My cholesterol was high for about a year..and then slowly started going down to about 210 now. Anyways...I am so gratefull that I stumbled across Ray Peats work which never would have happened if my hair didn't start falling out..so I am thankfull that it did. I can't imagine having gone all through life (Im 32 now) jumping from one thing to the other. Ray Peat is a God if there ever was such a thing.

Wow, liver every day! How do you prepare your oyster and liver? Those are the two things I've never been able to do.

Well...I hate liver and I like efficiency...so what i do is I take 16 oz of grassfed liver thats been frozen for a couple weeks. thaw it...throw it in blender. Then i pour it into an ice cube tray. Then I take a frozen ice cube out every day or every other day (each cube is about an oz). I put it in a coffee mug and let it thaw. Then i pour in a little bit of cafe con leche (from a big glass that i have served) stir it up...hold my nose...and shot it down. then i quickly take a couple gulps of my cafe con leche (milk with sugar and instant coffe). simple as that. Sounds gross...but you get used to it soooo fast and it takes seconds to do. You dont taste a thing as long as you just drink something right after and dont start freaking out and gagging. It's WAY easier than trying to cook it and make it taste good. As far as the oysters...I do something similiar...lololol..I just pour them in a coffee mug...cut them up with scissors...and then do the nose plug and chug with a chaser. olololo...not the most elegant way but once you do this regularly it becomes so easy. I dont dread it at all. I actually loook forward to it because i know Im putting super nutrient dense food in my body. Plus...after I finish the glass of cafe con leche I feel amazing and haven't tasted a thing. :mrgreen:
 

jyb

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forterpride said:
Well...I hate liver and I like efficiency...so what i do is I take 16 oz of grassfed liver thats been frozen for a couple weeks. thaw it...throw it in blender.

I find liver difficult to eat because of the non tender parts that I can't cut or chew. A lot of it goes to waste. I could cook it properly but then it becomes like rubber and I wonder if it could kill the vitamin content.
 

Peatri Dish

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Oct 30, 2014
Messages
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I buy a grass fed cow so I end up preparing the liver and heart all at once. I cut it into tiny pieces and freeze it. Then I thaw a portion and throw it in my bone broth. You hardly notice it. There's your liver and coQ10 for the week, with plenty of salt, mmmmm- all set!
 

Lance12

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Joined
Apr 9, 2015
Messages
20
Dutchie said:
Hi Forterpride,

As far as the hairgrowth I can't say,but in my personal experience I found that sugar indeed causes deep wrinkles in my forehead,which makes me look old&tired. (In the morning when I wake up, I do feel tired after days where I ate apparently too much sugars). It's only when I started decreasing sugars and avoiding lactose(&cowdairy alltogether),especially higher free fructose foods,that my skin started to look better again.
And so I've experienced that the theory about PUFAS being the evil to wrinkles is a little bit too black&white for me.
I wholeheartedly agree that vegetable PUFA oils aren't something to ingest on a daily basis,but I also found that swapping sugars for some more leafy greens and other vegetables,occasonal fatty fish actually make my skin look less wrinkled and younger&fresher. So,in my opinion some Omega 3's from food (not supplements) are beneficial.

I found this works exactly the same for me. My temps were horrible on dairy and high glycemic fruit/ juice. Since I switch to eating a more Asian style of rice, noodles, veggies and no red meat, my temps are 98.6+ all the time and my skin cleared up, so did my IBS. My hair was actually falling out on Ray too, but my temps and bpm were very low as well. Eating the frequent meals has really increased my appetite as well, and I find this helps me sleep better and wake up early. I usually wake up because I'm hungry too so I don't sleep in like I used to do before.

So as long as I have good bowl movement, my blood sugar doesn't go crazy, and my heart beat and temps are high, I seem to be doing very well without any special supps or other things, but I am taking a thorn multi too. Although aspirin does help if I get estrogen symptoms, which I am still recovering from the progesterone experiment I did. A juiced potato does give me some kinda crazy energy though, but I do get a crash, not sure if it's some kind of pure glucose. I will consider taking eggshells if I consume too much phosphorus.

When I have a good bpm and temp I do notice I can really focus well.
 
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