Sugar and severe memory impairment (please help)

[TheCodez]

I'm a 50 year old male. Normal weight. 15 year low carb refugee that's been doing the milk, OJ, select fruit, liver, gelatin, egg yolk thing for about 6 months. I have noticed in the past that when I consume anything with sugar, including fruit, juice or granular (I've even tried glucose powder) that I experience pretty severe memory impairment. About 6 months ago I decided to bite the bullet and completely abandon low carb / carnivore with the hope that my memory would eventually improve, however it is definitely not improving.

Specifically what I'm experiencing is that my memory of the events from a couple days ago begin to fade. At 2 days I can still recall things if I am prompted with a note that I left myself. By 2 weeks those memories feel like they were a year ago. Once a month has gone by I may be completely unable to recall the events. I'm not talking about random events here. I'm talking about projects that I spent 10, 20, 30 or 40 hours on, being completely erased from my memory. I have a much better memory of things that happened 3 years ago than of things that happened 3 months ago.

There is definitely some connection to the amount of sugar in my diet as I can immediately worsen my memory of a given day by simply by having maybe 10 or 15 tablespoons of granular sugar (not all at once) or half a watermelon in a day.

This has been going on, on and off for 15 years (consistent with my sugar intake level fluctuations) but is definitely worsening now. I've seen 8 doctors including 2 neurologists (1 of which was a memory specialist) and none have any idea what is going on. I've had MRIs and quarts of blood labs. Everything looks normal.

Realizing this symptomatically looks very similar to a thiamine (b1) deficiency I've been supplementing b1 heavily for about 2 years with no improvement. I've tried TTFD, thiamine HCL, thiamine pyrophosphate, benfotamine, sulbutiamine in EVERY reasonable quantity and dosing schedule.

I'd just go back to low carb except these higher carb levels have improved my energy sufficiently that I no longer loath life.

I'm currently trialing a zero sugar experiment where I get all my carbs from white rice. It's been a week now, but it's a little difficult to quickly tell if things are improving as my symptoms are very much a lagging indicator.

Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.

@haidut I know you frequently have brilliant insight into bizarre things so I would certainly love to hear any (obviously not medical advice) thoughts you might have.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I'm a 50 year old male. Normal weight. 15 year low carb refugee that's been doing the milk, OJ, select fruit, liver, gelatin, egg yolk thing for about 6 months. I have noticed in the past that when I consume anything with sugar, including fruit, juice or granular (I've even tried glucose powder) that I experience pretty severe memory impairment. About 6 months ago I decided to bite the bullet and completely abandon low carb / carnivore with the hope that my memory would eventually improve, however it is definitely not improving.

Specifically what I'm experiencing is that my memory of the events from a couple days ago begin to fade. At 2 days I can still recall things if I am prompted with a note that I left myself. By 2 weeks those memories feel like they were a year ago. Once a month has gone by I may be completely unable to recall the events. I'm not talking about random events here. I'm talking about projects that I spent 10, 20, 30 or 40 hours on, being completely erased from my memory. I have a much better memory of things that happened 3 years ago than of things that happened 3 months ago.

There is definitely some connection to the amount of sugar in my diet as I can immediately worsen my memory of a given day by simply by having maybe 10 or 15 tablespoons of granular sugar (not all at once) or half a watermelon in a day.

This has been going on, on and off for 15 years (consistent with my sugar intake level fluctuations) but is definitely worsening now. I've seen 8 doctors including 2 neurologists (1 of which was a memory specialist) and none have any idea what is going on. I've had MRIs and quarts of blood labs. Everything looks normal.

Realizing this symptomatically looks very similar to a thiamine (b1) deficiency I've been supplementing b1 heavily for about 2 years with no improvement. I've tried TTFD, thiamine HCL, thiamine pyrophosphate, benfotamine, sulbutiamine in EVERY reasonable quantity and dosing schedule.

I'd just go back to low carb except these higher carb levels have improved my energy sufficiently that I no longer loath life.

I'm currently trialing a zero sugar experiment where I get all my carbs from white rice. It's been a week now, but it's a little difficult to quickly tell if things are improving as my symptoms are very much a lagging indicator.

Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.

@haidut I know you frequently have brilliant insight into bizarre things so I would certainly love to hear any (obviously not medical advice) thoughts you might have.

Codez have you considered Alzheimer's? My father has dementia issues and I have seen him remember everything, and with a with particular meal containing starch he can't remember his own grandaughter or his ex-wife of 10 years. He gets very fatigued with those meals and sleeps for two days after. He does well on sugar though. I think his came on from years of using cheap aluminum cookware, lots of cheap canned food and Monrazuma's revenge impairing his gut in his late 30's's. He also has accumulated A LOT of aluminum from Tum's and other antacid prescribed medications for the last 40+ years. Getting him away from the Smartphone watch he was wearing, day and night; improved his health also. His arm and shoulder hurt him so bad that couldn' lift his arm above his head. I don't know why it took a blonde girl (me) to figure out it was his watch causing the issue.

 

[TheCodez]

Codez have you considered Alzheimer's? My father has dementia issues and I have seen him remember everything, and with a with particular meal containing starch he can't remember his own grandaughter or his ex-wife of 10 years. He gets very fatigued with those meals and sleeps for two days after. He does well on sugar though. I think his came on from years of using cheap aluminum cookware, lots of cheap canned food and Monrazuma's revenge impairing his gut in his late 30's's. He also has accumulated A LOT of aluminum from Tum's and other antacid prescribed medications for the last 40+ years. Getting him away from the Smartphone watch he was wearing, day and night; improved his health also. His arm and shoulder hurt him so bad that couldn' lift his arm above his head. I don't know why it took a blonde girl (me) to figure out it was his watch causing the issue.

Thanks. I have indeed considered the possibility of some sort of early onset Alzheimer's type pathology. The neurologists assure me that isn't the case though. Not that the neurologists are necessarily the final word on such things, but I wasn't even 40 when I had my first bout of this, and that would be incredibly early for Alzheimer's. Previously when it has happened it has cleared up within 6 months or less. This time it has been 20 months. Because of the relapse and remitting nature of this, one doctor suggested perhaps it was MS and sent me to specialists who subsequently ruled that out as well.

I'm glad you were able to figure out some strategies to help your father. He's lucky to have a daughter who both cares and is capable of such unconventional diagnostics.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thanks. I have indeed considered the possibility of some sort of early onset Alzheimer's type pathology. The neurologists assure me that isn't the case though. Not that the neurologists are necessarily the final word on such things, but I wasn't even 40 when I had my first bout of this, and that would be incredibly early for Alzheimer's. Previously when it has happened it has cleared up within 6 months or less. This time it has been 20 months. Because of the relapse and remitting nature of this, one doctor suggested perhaps it was MS and sent me to specialists who subsequently ruled that out as well.

I'm glad you were able to figure out some strategies to help your father. He's lucky to have a daughter who both cares and is capable of such unconventional diagnostics.

Thanks Codez! I will be interested to hear what's going on with you when you get to the bottom of it.

 

[Jam]

Have you tested your blood glucose, fasting+ multiple times during the day?

 

[TheCodez]

Have you tested your blood glucose, fasting+ multiple times during the day?

Yes. Great quesiton. BG is 85 to 95 upon waking (fasted). It spikes to between 120 and 150 after a meal depending on the carb load, but drops back down to 100 or below within 2 hours. I have literally tested it over 1,000 times in the last year.

 

[Old Irenaeus]

Makes me wonder about the aluminum cans of red bull and canned tuna fish I consume.

 

[mostlylurking]

I've tried TTFD, thiamine HCL, thiamine pyrophosphate, benfotamine, sulbutiamine in EVERY reasonable quantity and dosing schedule.

But what does that mean? What do you consider a "reasonable quantity"?

Do you have any metal in your mouth?

Have you been tested for heavy metal toxicity?

Have you recorded your temperature and pulse over some period of time? Have you been tested for hypothyroidism?

 

[Birdie]

I came from a low sugar diet and found that if I drank a half a glass of oj, I got dizzy. I have to say that went on for a long time. Maybe a year.

I was used to lattes without sugar and proud of it. So, I had to start with 1/4 teaspoon sugar. Maybe 2 months of that before I could go to 1/2 teaspoon. I had to keep telling myself adding sugar helped lower adrenalin or I would have quit it. 10 years later, I love it.

I had to add water to juice at first and have small amounts or I'd get sleepy. I was okay with more lattes or milky coffee as Ray says.
So, my experience is that going slowly works better. It isn't easy. I used to eat a lot of veggies. I'd been off gluten for 20 years, so that was ok...

Rice makes me tired. I can only have a couple of tablespoons with butter on it or cheese.

@mostlylurking has some good ideas.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Makes me wonder about the aluminum cans of red bull and canned tuna fish I consume.

They both most definetly have aluminium in them. The citric acid in the Red Bull eats at the can and the tuna will have some unless you buy it in glass jars, but tuna itself is so high in mercury. I use to eat a couple of glass jars of tuna a week and I would get a dead arm or leg, many nights from it. Sometimes I could feel tingling in my feet just standing from the heavy metals. I gave up all tuna and the neurological problem went away.

"Tuna and other large fish contain significant amounts of mercury in its most toxic form (methylmercury), and exposure to high levels of methylmercury can cause neurological damage."

Student Tuna Fans Unaware of Heavy Metal Risks

A surprising number of students eating in university dining halls have been helping themselves to servings of tuna well beyond the amounts recommended to avoid consuming too much mercury, a toxic heavy metal.

www.technologynetworks.com

 

[mostlylurking]

I'm currently trialing a zero sugar experiment where I get all my carbs from white rice. It's been a week now, but it's a little difficult to quickly tell if things are improving as my symptoms are very much a lagging indicator.

I think it might be helpful if you would read some Ray Peat articles about sugar, fructose, and starch. White rice converts to straight glucose in about 10 minutes from ingesting it. Glucose triggers insulin much more that regular table sugar because the fructose in it does not trigger insulin.

You mentioned above consuming 10-15 tablespoons of sugar in a day. That's a lot of sugar. Was this in addition to drinking orange juice? Or are you counting orange juice as part of the sugar?

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Ray Peat, PhD – Concerns with Starches – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

 

[TheCodez]

But what does that mean? What do you consider a "reasonable quantity"?

Do you have any metal in your mouth?

Have you been tested for heavy metal toxicity?

Have you recorded your temperature and pulse over some period of time? Have you been tested for hypothyroidism?

I've taken 1 gram thiamine HCL 3 times per day for 2 years. Additionally I've taken TTFD at 500mg daily for 6 months. Sulbutiamine at 600mg daily for 6 months. etc... Any one of these efforts should have been sufficient to recover from a thiamine deficiency or to overcome one of the thiamine transport defects (if I had one).
I had one metal filling but had it removed many years ago.
Heavy metals is actually one of the few tests that I've not had.
My temperature has averaged 96.7 and my pulse 72 for many years. My free t3 and free t4 are low normal. To that end, I have been undergoing t3 mono-therapy for about 2 months now. At 50mcg (8 divided doses) My temp is unchanged and my pulse now averages 79.

 

[mostlylurking]

I'm a 50 year old male. Normal weight. 15 year low carb refugee that's been doing the milk, OJ, select fruit, liver, gelatin, egg yolk thing for about 6 months. I have noticed in the past that when I consume anything with sugar, including fruit, juice or granular (I've even tried glucose powder) that I experience pretty severe memory impairment. About 6 months ago I decided to bite the bullet and completely abandon low carb / carnivore with the hope that my memory would eventually improve, however it is definitely not improving.

Specifically what I'm experiencing is that my memory of the events from a couple days ago begin to fade. At 2 days I can still recall things if I am prompted with a note that I left myself. By 2 weeks those memories feel like they were a year ago. Once a month has gone by I may be completely unable to recall the events. I'm not talking about random events here. I'm talking about projects that I spent 10, 20, 30 or 40 hours on, being completely erased from my memory. I have a much better memory of things that happened 3 years ago than of things that happened 3 months ago.

There is definitely some connection to the amount of sugar in my diet as I can immediately worsen my memory of a given day by simply by having maybe 10 or 15 tablespoons of granular sugar (not all at once) or half a watermelon in a day.

This has been going on, on and off for 15 years (consistent with my sugar intake level fluctuations) but is definitely worsening now. I've seen 8 doctors including 2 neurologists (1 of which was a memory specialist) and none have any idea what is going on. I've had MRIs and quarts of blood labs. Everything looks normal.

Realizing this symptomatically looks very similar to a thiamine (b1) deficiency I've been supplementing b1 heavily for about 2 years with no improvement. I've tried TTFD, thiamine HCL, thiamine pyrophosphate, benfotamine, sulbutiamine in EVERY reasonable quantity and dosing schedule.

I'd just go back to low carb except these higher carb levels have improved my energy sufficiently that I no longer loath life.

I'm currently trialing a zero sugar experiment where I get all my carbs from white rice. It's been a week now, but it's a little difficult to quickly tell if things are improving as my symptoms are very much a lagging indicator.

Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.

@haidut I know you frequently have brilliant insight into bizarre things so I would certainly love to hear any (obviously not medical advice) thoughts you might have.

The need for thiamine is increased if you have heavy metal toxicity. Thiamine deficiency causes the blood brain barrier to become leaky. Addressing any issues with a leaky blood brain barrier is very important because things can get through to the brain (like iron) that cause problems.

link: CHELATING HEAVY METALS

If you are deficient in thiamine and you consume a bunch of sugar, the deficiency immediately becomes worse. This goes for consuming refined starch as well.

I've taken 1 gram thiamine HCL 3 times per day for 2 years. Additionally I've taken TTFD at 500mg daily for 6 months. Sulbutiamine at 600mg daily for 6 months. etc... Any one of these efforts should have been sufficient to recover from a thiamine deficiency or to overcome one of the thiamine transport defects (if I had one).
I had one metal filling but had it removed many years ago.
Heavy metals is actually one of the few tests that I've not had.
My temperature has averaged 96.7 and my pulse 72 for many years. My free t3 and free t4 are low normal. To that end, I have been undergoing t3 mono-therapy for about 2 months now. At 50mcg (8 divided doses) My temp is unchanged and my pulse now averages 79.

Your low temperature points to hypothyroidism and/or thiamine deficiency. I have problems with both issues. Your free t3 and free t4 being low "normal" is pointing to hypothyroidism. This is a very serious issue that should be addressed with the help of a competent endocrinologist. If your temp and pulse have not normalized, this points to needing a higher dose of the correct medication. Hypothyroidism keeps your immune system from working properly; it lowers immune system function by about 50% which is dangerous. Hypothyroidism causes brain symptoms like the ones you have mentioned. Your brain can't work properly if it doesn't have the necessary energy.

I was diagnosed as hypothyroid in 1981. I've been on prescription thyroid medication ever since. I hope you are getting prescription thyroid medication (that includes t3) via a competent endocrinologist and are not trying to wing it on your own. If you are working with an endo, it is important to understand that they like to stair-step the dose up over a period of months. FWIW, I've found that Acella brand natural desiccated thyroid medication really works great. My 84 year old endo says Acella NP thyroid works just like the old Armour product did.

Ray Peat has numerous excellent articles about hypothyroidism. Here's a link: PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless ; use the cell on the left and search for "thyroid".

Also, here's an excellent interview of Ray Peat about hypothyroidism: https://www.toxinless.com/polsci-080911-thyroid-and-regeneration.mp3 The sound quality is terrible but the wisdom is priceless.

 

[Rasaari]

b1 requires magnesium. High doses can antagonize b6 (and maybe some others) so taking some b6 would be good.

 

[redsun]

I'm a 50 year old male. Normal weight. 15 year low carb refugee that's been doing the milk, OJ, select fruit, liver, gelatin, egg yolk thing for about 6 months. I have noticed in the past that when I consume anything with sugar, including fruit, juice or granular (I've even tried glucose powder) that I experience pretty severe memory impairment. About 6 months ago I decided to bite the bullet and completely abandon low carb / carnivore with the hope that my memory would eventually improve, however it is definitely not improving.

Specifically what I'm experiencing is that my memory of the events from a couple days ago begin to fade. At 2 days I can still recall things if I am prompted with a note that I left myself. By 2 weeks those memories feel like they were a year ago. Once a month has gone by I may be completely unable to recall the events. I'm not talking about random events here. I'm talking about projects that I spent 10, 20, 30 or 40 hours on, being completely erased from my memory. I have a much better memory of things that happened 3 years ago than of things that happened 3 months ago.

There is definitely some connection to the amount of sugar in my diet as I can immediately worsen my memory of a given day by simply by having maybe 10 or 15 tablespoons of granular sugar (not all at once) or half a watermelon in a day.

This has been going on, on and off for 15 years (consistent with my sugar intake level fluctuations) but is definitely worsening now. I've seen 8 doctors including 2 neurologists (1 of which was a memory specialist) and none have any idea what is going on. I've had MRIs and quarts of blood labs. Everything looks normal.

Realizing this symptomatically looks very similar to a thiamine (b1) deficiency I've been supplementing b1 heavily for about 2 years with no improvement. I've tried TTFD, thiamine HCL, thiamine pyrophosphate, benfotamine, sulbutiamine in EVERY reasonable quantity and dosing schedule.

I'd just go back to low carb except these higher carb levels have improved my energy sufficiently that I no longer loath life.

I'm currently trialing a zero sugar experiment where I get all my carbs from white rice. It's been a week now, but it's a little difficult to quickly tell if things are improving as my symptoms are very much a lagging indicator.

Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated.

@haidut I know you frequently have brilliant insight into bizarre things so I would certainly love to hear any (obviously not medical advice) thoughts you might have.

Sugar increase the need for choline. If you eat a ton of sugar, this could be your problem. If your choline is getting depleted, this easily explains the long term memory impairments as choline is a major determinant in acetylcholine synthesis. Acetylcholine is the most important neurotransmitter when it comes to functioning long-term memory.

Also it amazes me how commonly so many forum users just megadose B1. Yes you need B1 to make acetylcholine, but B5 and in general all the B vitamins are necessary to optimize acetyl-CoA production. I would recommendly cutting back sugar dramatically and adding significant amount of choline from eggs and meat in the diet. You should also supplement B-vitamins but you should see serious improvement just from more choline rich foods.

If you can and are willing, animal brains are packed with choline and I think it will improve cognition in older folk overall and, not just long-term memory. I am not saying you may not be developing a disease as mentioned by others above, but considering the fact that you notice the problem from sugar specifically and the link between sugar and choline, I think this is the most likely cause.

 

[mostlylurking]

b1 requires magnesium. High doses can antagonize b6 (and maybe some others) so taking some b6 would be good.

Yes, it's a good idea to take a good b-complex that includes some b6 when high dosing thiamine.

 

[TheCodez]

Sugar increase the need for choline. If you eat a ton of sugar, this could be your problem. If your choline is getting depleted, this easily explains the long term memory impairments as choline is a major determinant in acetylcholine synthesis. Acetylcholine is the most important neurotransmitter when it comes to functioning long-term memory.

Also it amazes me how commonly so many forum users just megadose B1. Yes you need B1 to make acetylcholine, but B5 and in general all the B vitamins are necessary to optimize acetyl-CoA production. I would recommendly cutting back sugar dramatically and adding significant amount of choline from eggs and meat in the diet. You should also supplement B-vitamins but you should see serious improvement just from more choline rich foods.

If you can and are willing, animal brains are packed with choline and I think it will improve cognition in older folk overall and, not just long-term memory. I am not saying you may not be developing a disease as mentioned by others above, but considering the fact that you notice the problem from sugar specifically and the link between sugar and choline, I think this is the most likely cause.

Thanks so much for replying. I find your choline suggestion particularly interesting as I have definitely noticed that my memory worsens if I go a little while without eating beef, but I had not considered that may be due to its choline content.

I can't really eat eggs (I've even tried just the raw yolks) as they cause me to have significant joint pain.

I presently take b1, b3, b5, and b7. I can't take the others as they cause various issues for me. b6 for instance (even in p5p form) even in the smallest doses causes severe foot neuropathy for me.

I will 100% add choline to the stack today.

 

[TheCodez]

b1 requires magnesium. High doses can antagonize b6 (and maybe some others) so taking some b6 would be good.

Thanks. I had read that about the magnesium and consequently supplement it. I can't supplement b6 as it causes me to have severe foot neuropathy even in the smallest doses (1 or 2mg even) of the p5p form.

 

[aliml]

Glucose deprivation in the brain sets stage for Alzheimer's disease, Temple study shows

One of the earliest signs of Alzheimer's disease is a decline in glucose levels in the brain. It appears in the early stages of mild cognitive impairment -- before symptoms of memory problems begin to surface. Whether it's a cause or consequence of neurological dysfunction has been unclear, but...

www.eurekalert.org

 

[redsun]

Thanks so much for replying. I find your choline suggestion particularly interesting as I have definitely noticed that my memory worsens if I go a little while without eating beef, but I had not considered that may be due to its choline content.

I can't really eat eggs (I've even tried just the raw yolks) as they cause me to have significant joint pain.

I presently take b1, b3, b5, and b7. I can't take the others as they cause various issues for me. b6 for instance (even in p5p form) even in the smallest doses causes severe foot neuropathy for me.

I will 100% add choline to the stack today.

300mg or so total choline from a supplement like citicholine for example (I think its about 40% if I recall correctly) would be a good start. You should also regularly consume muscle meats as they are the next best source for choline.