Succinic Acid Supplementation

Velve921

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Has anyone ever taken succinic acid? Particularly for mercury detox? If so what is a good supplement?
 

jyb

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I haven't tried it.

I used to drink a lot of coffee from the Italian stove coffee maker, until I read Ray's article on iron where he mentions it leaking a lot of aluminium. So I asked myself. But apparently milk and coffee chelate heavy metals in general, so I expected it would be enough over time.
 

bradley

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A couple quotes from Ray re: succinic acid. He doesn't mention supplementing it here, and may only be talking about it's endogenous production. I do however vaguely recall him saying you can supplement it.

A complete list of protective nutritional chemicals and natural drugs or analogs to our endogenous protective factors would be very long, but we should give special thought to certain ones, including succinic acid, which stimulates respiration and protective steroid synthesis

Filatov found that stressed tissues of both plants and animals produce protective and stimulating substances, which can be extracted for medical use. He identified succinic acid as a component of his extracts. Szent-Gyorgyi found that succinic acid stimulates respiration, which might explain why it promotes synthesis of pregnenolone and related steroids. It and fumaric acid are now considered to be adaptogens. Since succinic acid safely chelates toxic heavy metals out of mitochondria, it might also safely carry copper into the mitochondria. Succinic acid is also closely associated with GABA metabolism (gamma-amino butyric acid is converted to succinic semialdehyde in a transamination reaction), and so is probably complementary to the GABA analogs GHB (gamma-hydroxy butyrate) and its lactone (which has anti-viral activity). GABA analogs are now one of the most actively studied classes of adaptogens. GABA has a wide range of stress-blocking actions, including neural inhibition, progesterone promotion, and blood sugar regulation.
 
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Velve921

Velve921

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That is great info! Below is an interview with Ray Peat:




http://onibasu.com/archives/amc/38314.html


So since I had my amalgams removed I have been extremely tired all the time and wired at 2 in the morning. However, my temperatures have gone up drastically since the removal. So it makes me wonder if this is the detox? Temps up while lethargy increases? Eventually lethargy will decrease? It's hard to tell because no one has given concrete information on a mercury detox that I know of...so many different opinions.
 

bradley

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Succinic acid is relatively easy to find in bulk or capsule form, but i've never seen sodium or magnesium succinate.
 
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Velve921

Velve921

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Do more people on the forum have experience with succinic acid or going through a mercury detox in general?
 

bradley

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Nothing subjectively noticeable, but that could be construed as a good thing. It just seems protective to take occasionally. Especially after consuming alcohol, as it minimizes the toxic effects.

Ewlevy1 said:
Bradley,


What results did you have?
 

RobertJM

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http://www.hmdb.ca/metabolites/HMDB00254

Is anyone able to explain why this link is claiming that succinic acid can be described as a 'cancer causing' metabolite?

I've just started to take it, and I have noticed grater energy. But reading this link worries me. This succinic acid does make me feel almost borderline manic, actually. I'm taking 800mg per day. I'm always suspicious of something that makes me feel 'too good'. It's definitely doing something.

@haidut, sorry I don't suppose you might have an opinion on what this link says about succinic acid? I know you've mentioned malic acid as a chelating agent in another thread (in recent times). Maybe I should just stick with that one instead (along with the large quantities of coffee that I drink).
 

Lucenzo01

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Maybe this is why alpha tocopherol succinate showed greater anti-cancer properties than the rest of the forms of vitamin E used.
 

aguilaroja

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Maybe this is why alpha tocopherol succinate showed greater anti-cancer properties than the rest of the forms of vitamin E used.

IIRC a few decades ago, the bulk manufacturer (by ADM etc.) of tocopherols changed to the acetate form from the succinate form, for a very minor cost savings. It may be an urban rumor, but the industrial savings was said to be a few pennies per ton. It may account for the less impressive recent responses to boosting vitamin E.

I have wondered if the Shutes in their dramatic findings used essentially the succinate form of vitamin E, but I do not recall it specified in many of their writings.

DoctorYourself.com - Cancer Treatment with Vitamins
“Vitamin E (d alpha tocopherol succinate). This water soluble form has the greatest efficacy in controlling cancer cell growth in the test tube and is the one I recommend should be used. The dose ranges from 400 to 1200 International Units daily. Vitamin E is the major fat soluble anti- oxidant in the body and plays a role by decreasing the concentration of free radicals which are thought to be involved in the creation of the cancer. It also decreases the risk of heart disease, thus confirming what was found over fifty years in Ontario by Drs. Wilfrid and Evan Shute.”
 

Lucenzo01

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IIRC a few decades ago, the bulk manufacturer (by ADM etc.) of tocopherols changed to the acetate form from the succinate form, for a very minor cost savings. It may be an urban rumor, but the industrial savings was said to be a few pennies per ton. It may account for the less impressive recent responses to boosting vitamin E.

I have wondered if the Shutes in their dramatic findings used essentially the succinate form of vitamin E, but I do not recall it specified in many of their writings.

DoctorYourself.com - Cancer Treatment with Vitamins
“Vitamin E (d alpha tocopherol succinate). This water soluble form has the greatest efficacy in controlling cancer cell growth in the test tube and is the one I recommend should be used. The dose ranges from 400 to 1200 International Units daily. Vitamin E is the major fat soluble anti- oxidant in the body and plays a role by decreasing the concentration of free radicals which are thought to be involved in the creation of the cancer. It also decreases the risk of heart disease, thus confirming what was found over fifty years in Ontario by Drs. Wilfrid and Evan Shute.”

The vast majority of manufacturers use pure d-alpha tocopherol, dl-alpha tocopherol or mixed tocopherols. Mixed tocopherols and tocopherol acetate are second to them and tocopherol succinate is the last. Only Now Foods and PureBulk have it in decent quantities.

Yeah, that quote it's from Abraham Hoffer. He was familiar with the shutte work. Some say they used a vitamin E similar to tocovit, some say it was alpha-tocopherol succinate.
 

aguilaroja

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The vast majority of manufacturers use pure d-alpha tocopherol, dl-alpha tocopherol or mixed tocopherols. Mixed tocopherols and tocopherol acetate are second to them and tocopherol succinate is the last. Only Now Foods and PureBulk have it in decent quantities.

Yeah, that quote it's from Abraham Hoffer. He was familiar with the shutte work. Some say they used a vitamin E similar to tocovit, some say it was alpha-tocopherol succinate.

Yes, the vitamin "manufacturers" use source material from other businesses whose production is not especially transparent. Without start-of-the-art assaying combined with time travel, it is difficult to compare nutrient quality across generations.

Hoffer lived into his 90's and was an active practitioner through late age, a good demonstration of supportive nutrition.
 

Lucenzo01

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Yes, the vitamin "manufacturers" use source material from other businesses whose production is not especially transparent. Without start-of-the-art assaying combined with time travel, it is difficult to compare nutrient quality across generations.

Hoffer lived into his 90's and was an active practitioner through late age, a good demonstration of supportive nutrition.

And he was a type 1 diabetic, so more power to the good Hoffer.
 

haidut

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IIRC a few decades ago, the bulk manufacturer (by ADM etc.) of tocopherols changed to the acetate form from the succinate form, for a very minor cost savings. It may be an urban rumor, but the industrial savings was said to be a few pennies per ton. It may account for the less impressive recent responses to boosting vitamin E.

I have wondered if the Shutes in their dramatic findings used essentially the succinate form of vitamin E, but I do not recall it specified in many of their writings.

DoctorYourself.com - Cancer Treatment with Vitamins
“Vitamin E (d alpha tocopherol succinate). This water soluble form has the greatest efficacy in controlling cancer cell growth in the test tube and is the one I recommend should be used. The dose ranges from 400 to 1200 International Units daily. Vitamin E is the major fat soluble anti- oxidant in the body and plays a role by decreasing the concentration of free radicals which are thought to be involved in the creation of the cancer. It also decreases the risk of heart disease, thus confirming what was found over fifty years in Ontario by Drs. Wilfrid and Evan Shute.”

I think the succinate tocopherol form is definitely superior to the acetate. Don't have much data on what the Shute brothers used but it was likely NOT acetate. Either plain tocopherol (extracted from wheat germ oil) or one of the more expensive (and more effective esters) like phosphate, succinate, or palmitate.
 

mirc12354

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So I have been taking succinic acid for a couple of days now... not much actualy (as per haidut's reccomendation 200-250 mg twice a day) and the only benefit I can see for now is it increases libido like no other supplement I have ever taken before (includincg zinc, taurine, prohormones...). Anybody else experienced this effect? Even after nights of very poor sleep (frequent sleep interuption because 2 toddlers infected with chickenpox) all I can think about is sex. In the past when my sleep was lousy my libido would be rather weak.
 

haidut

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So I have been taking succinic acid for a couple of days now... not much actualy (as per haidut's reccomendation 200-250 mg twice a day) and the only benefit I can see for now is it increases libido like no other supplement I have ever taken before (includincg zinc, taurine, prohormones...). Anybody else experienced this effect? Even after nights of very poor sleep (frequent sleep interuption because 2 toddlers infected with chickenpox) all I can think about is sex. In the past when my sleep was lousy my libido would be rather weak.

Succinic acid increases steroidogenesis in the adrenals, and possibly in the gonads as well. So, it likely raised pregnenolone/DHEA levels and possibly T. Also, given that it raises ATP synthesis rather well, and ATP is a cofactor for StAR and steroid synthesis, that contributes to better steroidogenesis too. Finally, succinic acid is both a precursor and metabolite of GABA and raising GABA sometimes has pro-dopamine and anti-serotonin effects, which can also help with libido.
Btw, are you guy or girl? Sorry if you have answered this before.
 

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