Succinic Acid Supplement

[TreasureVibe]

Is supplementing with succinid acid safe if you still have amalgam fillings in your teeth?

 

[yerrag]

Succinic acid to remove heavy toxicity is one of those things that have been attributes to Ray Peat but which we have difficulty finding attribution. So it would be best to first ask Ray Peat in his interviews what his real position is.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Succinic acid to remove heavy toxicity is one of those things that have been attributes to Ray Peat but which we have difficulty finding attribution. So it would be best to first ask Ray Peat in his interviews what his real position is.

Hmm I have used high dose succinic acid capsules a couple of times now, around 800mg, and I feel kind of unsharp, awkwardly relaxed, tiresome, and mellow in the head. Is this mercury toxicity by moving/adding mercury? I still have multiple amalgam fillings in my mouth. If anyone knows, please let me know!

 

[yerrag]

Hmm I have used high dose succinic acid capsules a couple of times now, around 800mg, and I feel kind of unsharp, awkwardly relaxed, tiresome, and mellow in the head. Is this mercury toxicity by moving/adding mercury? I still have multiple amalgam fillings in my mouth. If anyone knows, please let me know!

There's no telling. When I was on my IV chelation, I didn't get any responses like yours. I didn't feel any sensation that would tie in to my chelation treatment. There was a long lag time for me, in fact. A year or longer, and maybe it was because I didn't know what to look for. I just felt better gradually, my immunity to flu became so good that I haven't had one since then. And when I ran, I had more dramatically more endurance. I had difficulty running after a kilometer, with training. I can now run 5 kilometers uphill, and not even break a sweat, and that was without training. It was really bad, as I had 11 mercury fillings so you can imagine how the effect was.

 

[TreasureVibe]

There's no telling. When I was on my IV chelation, I didn't get any responses like yours. I didn't feel any sensation that would tie in to my chelation treatment. There was a long lag time for me, in fact. A year or longer, and maybe it was because I didn't know what to look for. I just felt better gradually, my immunity to flu became so good that I haven't had one since then. And when I ran, I had more dramatically more endurance. I had difficulty running after a kilometer, with training. I can now run 5 kilometers uphill, and not even break a sweat, and that was without training. It was really bad, as I had 11 mercury fillings so you can imagine how the effect was.

Thanks!

 

[yerrag]

Me: I've read some unverified sources on the internet that you recommend the use of succinic acid for lead chelation. Is this true? If so, could you please elaborate on how it works and how you see it being used?

Ray: No, I don’t recommend it. It’s produced endogenously.

 

[haidut]

Me: I've read some unverified sources on the internet that you recommend the use of succinic acid for lead chelation. Is this true? If so, could you please elaborate on how it works and how you see it being used?

Ray: No, I don’t recommend it. It’s produced endogenously.

This stands in stark contrast with his earlier writings on it being highly protective and when asked about a dose he said 300mg twice daily. The original recommendation was not in regards to lead chelation though, just as a general metabolic booster. I can't seem to find the exact quote from him mentioning the specific doses but he has spoken in favor of it and I am positive he mentioned specific dosages when asked in the past. See below for some references.
Succinic Acid Supplementation

Here are his comments on it for chelation.
New Ray Peat Discussion thread - Page 11
"...To safely remove heavy metals, use succinic acid as the sodium or magnesium salt (sodium or magnesium succinate). It is classified as a food, is an antioxidant (anti-free radicals) and stimulates respiration in addition to being a chelator. Succinic acid will suck out Al non toxically. Magnesium or sodium + succinic acid should chelate mercury. No side effects. The last resort is penicillamine. Good for all heavy metals but not as safe as succinic acid. According to Dr. Ray Peat, succinic acid as the sodium or magnesium salt (sodium or magnesium succinate) is the safest chelating agent, with penicillamine being next. In the 1930â??s, Szent-Gyorgyi showed that succinate stimulated cell respiration. In the 1980â??s other researchers reported that it stimulates pregnenolone production in the adrenal glands. Succinic acid is a good food, is crucial to the Krebs cycle (essential for energy), speeds it up by stimulating respiration and is thus similar to the thyroid hormone. Pure succinic acid or succinate (not DMSA) can be used either orally or intravenously. It has no harmful effects to the mitochondria (as does EDTA). Succinate has been shown to remove aluminum and lead. There is no reason not to believe that it will also take out other heavy metals, including mercury and iron, but I have no references on this. It would be great if someone would do a study on this. Peat says succinic acid works orally so I would choose to do oral rather than intravenous chelation therapy. His recommended dosage is 200 mg twice daily but please put the succinic acid in a capsule, otherwise, it will suck calcium out of your teeth. Peat says that it may take a week or so to clean out the heavy metals."

"...Succinate does not suck calcium from the blood, but helps carry it. Plus, it stimulates respiration and helps deposit calcium in bones while taking it out of soft tissues. It simulates carbon dioxide production which increases oxygen in the body. CaCO3 is the starting material for hydroxyappetite (bone substance)."

As far as I remember, his specific rationale in favor of succinic acid is it stimulating pregnenolone synthesis in the adrenals. Here is one of his newsletter where he talks about that.
https://www.toxinless.com/ray-peat-the-generality-of-adaptogens.pdf
"...Filatov found that stressed tissues of both plants and animals produce protective and stimulating substances, which can be extracted for medical use. He identified succinic acid as a component of his extracts. Szent-Gyorgyi found that succinic acid stimulates respiration, which might explain why it promotes synthesis of pregnenolone and related steroids. It and fumaric acid are now considered to be adaptogens. Since succinic acid safely chelates toxic heavy metals out of mitochondria, it might also safely carry copper into the mitochondria. Succinic acid is also closely associated with GABA metabolism (gamma-amino butyric acid is converted to succinic semialdehyde in a transamination reaction), and so is probably complementary to the GABA analogs GHB (gamma-hydroxy butyrate) and its lactone (which has anti-viral activity). GABA analogs are now one of the most actively studied classes of adaptogens. GABA has a wide range of stress-blocking actions, including neural inhibition, progesterone promotion, and blood sugar regulation."

 

[yerrag]

This stands in stark contrast with his earlier writings on it being highly protective and when asked about a dose he said 300mg twice daily. The original recommendation was not in regards to lead chelation though, just as a general metabolic booster. I can't seem to find the exact quote from him mentioning the specific doses but he has spoken in favor of it and I am positive he mentioned specific dosages when asked in the past. See below for some references.
Succinic Acid Supplementation

Here are his comments on it for chelation.
New Ray Peat Discussion thread - Page 11
"...To safely remove heavy metals, use succinic acid as the sodium or magnesium salt (sodium or magnesium succinate). It is classified as a food, is an antioxidant (anti-free radicals) and stimulates respiration in addition to being a chelator. Succinic acid will suck out Al non toxically. Magnesium or sodium + succinic acid should chelate mercury. No side effects. The last resort is penicillamine. Good for all heavy metals but not as safe as succinic acid. According to Dr. Ray Peat, succinic acid as the sodium or magnesium salt (sodium or magnesium succinate) is the safest chelating agent, with penicillamine being next. In the 1930â??s, Szent-Gyorgyi showed that succinate stimulated cell respiration. In the 1980â??s other researchers reported that it stimulates pregnenolone production in the adrenal glands. Succinic acid is a good food, is crucial to the Krebs cycle (essential for energy), speeds it up by stimulating respiration and is thus similar to the thyroid hormone. Pure succinic acid or succinate (not DMSA) can be used either orally or intravenously. It has no harmful effects to the mitochondria (as does EDTA). Succinate has been shown to remove aluminum and lead. There is no reason not to believe that it will also take out other heavy metals, including mercury and iron, but I have no references on this. It would be great if someone would do a study on this. Peat says succinic acid works orally so I would choose to do oral rather than intravenous chelation therapy. His recommended dosage is 200 mg twice daily but please put the succinic acid in a capsule, otherwise, it will suck calcium out of your teeth. Peat says that it may take a week or so to clean out the heavy metals."

"...Succinate does not suck calcium from the blood, but helps carry it. Plus, it stimulates respiration and helps deposit calcium in bones while taking it out of soft tissues. It simulates carbon dioxide production which increases oxygen in the body. CaCO3 is the starting material for hydroxyappetite (bone substance)."

As far as I remember, his specific rationale in favor of succinic acid is it stimulating pregnenolone synthesis in the adrenals. Here is one of his newsletter where he talks about that.
https://www.toxinless.com/ray-peat-the-generality-of-adaptogens.pdf
"...Filatov found that stressed tissues of both plants and animals produce protective and stimulating substances, which can be extracted for medical use. He identified succinic acid as a component of his extracts. Szent-Gyorgyi found that succinic acid stimulates respiration, which might explain why it promotes synthesis of pregnenolone and related steroids. It and fumaric acid are now considered to be adaptogens. Since succinic acid safely chelates toxic heavy metals out of mitochondria, it might also safely carry copper into the mitochondria. Succinic acid is also closely associated with GABA metabolism (gamma-amino butyric acid is converted to succinic semialdehyde in a transamination reaction), and so is probably complementary to the GABA analogs GHB (gamma-hydroxy butyrate) and its lactone (which has anti-viral activity). GABA analogs are now one of the most actively studied classes of adaptogens. GABA has a wide range of stress-blocking actions, including neural inhibition, progesterone promotion, and blood sugar regulation."

Interesting. I should get back to Ray with these and ask him if his views have changed. I've actually been looking for attribution to what is claimed to be what Ray has said about succinic acid and heavy metals, and giving up on that, had to contact Ray himself. And now that he's replied to the negative, thanks to you I've found it. The first link you posted, would you trust it? The second one, from Dan's toxinless site, is more credible.

I'm glad to see that there's still one substance I haven't explored - succinic acid, in my longstanding quest to chelate lead out of my kidneys. Have used different kinds of magnesium salts, though many still remain to be tried. I've had some improvements, as seen in lower blood pressure, lower LDH (slightly only), and in higher serum albumin (as well as lower urine protein/creatinine), but I'm still far away from the goal post. I'd be looking to try magnesium succinate. I wonder if it would be a simple reaction to make that: magnesium carbonate + succinic acid.

Seems doable:
Balance Chemical Equation - Online Balancer

 

[haidut]

Interesting. I should get back to Ray with these and ask him if his views have changed. I've actually been looking for attribution to what is claimed to be what Ray has said about succinic acid and heavy metals, and giving up on that, had to contact Ray himself. And now that he's replied to the negative, thanks to you I've found it. The first link you posted, would you trust it? The second one, from Dan's toxinless site, is more credible.

I'm glad to see that there's still one substance I haven't explored - succinic acid, in my longstanding quest to chelate lead out of my kidneys. Have used different kinds of magnesium salts, though many still remain to be tried. I've had some improvements, as seen in lower blood pressure, lower LDH (slightly only), and in higher serum albumin (as well as lower urine protein/creatinine), but I'm still far away from the goal post. I'd be looking to try magnesium succinate. I wonder if it would be a simple reaction to make that: magnesium carbonate + succinic acid.

Seems doable:
Balance Chemical Equation - Online Balancer

The first link sounds just like somebody transcribing an interview or something, approximately and not with exact peat quotes. I am pretty sure he talked about succinic acid salt of copper as a good way to get copper inside the mitochondria and also by the same process succinic acid being able to chelate heavy metals inside the cell. So, I am pretty sure he talked about succinic acid and chelation I am just not sure if these are his exact words.

 

[agnostic]

I found this supplement that contains a mixture of calcium and magnesium succinate.
Mag2:1Cal (Magnesium & Calcium) 90 Caps | BioCare

The product does not have problematic fillers (only magnesium stereate).

Each capsule provides 51 mg calcium and 72 mg magnesium. Does anyone know how much succinic acid that would provide?

 

[agnostic]

Never mind. I now found the answer to my question on this site:
Biocare Mag2:Cal1 - Breath Of Life Natural Healing ClinicOnline Shop

Apparently, one capsule contains 537 mg succinic acid. So, half a capsule twice a day would come close to Peats dosage recommendation and it would be quite cheap also.

 

[Lokzo]

I literally just started Succinic acid (In doses from 125mg-500mg), and within 45 minutes of dosing, I feel extremely dysphoric, GABAergic, calmness but in a way that feels like I feel slightly disassociated. It does feel like its destroying my cortisol or something, because I can barely move and also I feel extremely stupid. This is the one I am using. Dodgy vendor? Or am I just super sensitive to anything that crushes cortisol?
succinic acid 10 packs x 10 tab Natural antioxidant 4602876000908 | eBay

 

[Inaut]

I literally just started Succinic acid (In doses from 125mg-500mg), and within 45 minutes of dosing, I feel extremely dysphoric, GABAergic, calmness but in a way that feels like I feel slightly disassociated. It does feel like its destroying my cortisol or something, because I can barely move and also I feel extremely stupid. This is the one I am using. Dodgy vendor? Or am I just super sensitive to anything that crushes cortisol?
succinic acid 10 packs x 10 tab Natural antioxidant 4602876000908 | eBay

I felt similarly on the succinic acid I ordered from eBay. I’d compare it to a wave of haze/fog.

Haven’t used them since.

 

[Lokzo]

I felt similarly on the succinic acid I ordered from eBay. I’d compare it to a wave of haze/fog.

Haven’t used them since.

Very strange !! Like I physical heaviness of the mind and head. I just feel dumb. Poor working memory and very disassociated/derealised. I have no idea why... I don't think I can use another dose ever again.... But at the same time I am desperate to understand the Mechanism of Action here.

 

[yerrag]

I've used magnesium succinate and I don't notice these effects. I react magnesium carbonate and succinic acid to make it.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Very strange !! Like I physical heaviness of the mind and head. I just feel dumb. Poor working memory and very disassociated/derealised. I have no idea why... I don't think I can use another dose ever again.... But at the same time I am desperate to understand the Mechanism of Action here.

Have you ever used theanine in higher amounts? I think I felt like that when I began using this amino-acid. Is the feeling similar? The effect did go away, but I don't know if the same would happen with succinic acid's. It may just be that it's lowering stress hormones a lot.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I've used magnesium succinate and I don't notice these effects. I react magnesium carbonate and succinic acid to make it.

What vendor are you getting your succinic acid from?

 

[aquaman]

I literally just started Succinic acid (In doses from 125mg-500mg), and within 45 minutes of dosing, I feel extremely dysphoric, GABAergic, calmness but in a way that feels like I feel slightly disassociated. It does feel like its destroying my cortisol or something, because I can barely move and also I feel extremely stupid. This is the one I am using. Dodgy vendor? Or am I just super sensitive to anything that crushes cortisol?
succinic acid 10 packs x 10 tab Natural antioxidant 4602876000908 | eBay

500mg is a lot. 1200 MG of aspirin will have a very different effect to 300mg

I use 100mg of succinic acid.

 

[aquaman]

I've used magnesium succinate and I don't notice these effects. I react magnesium carbonate and succinic acid to make it.

What is the process for this?

 

[yerrag]

What vendor are you getting your succinic acid from?

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B009JH2CME/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

What is the process for this?

Balance Chemical Equation - Online Balancer

Was taking 800 mg elemental magnesium with this divided into 3 doses daily.