Success In The Modern World Vs. Getting/Being Healthy

milkboi

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It seems like todays society is structured in such a way that success (resource-wise, being of high status) is only attainable by partaking in destructive behavior. Examples: To be academically successful you need to study information, of which a lot is not useful in the real world, under artificial blue light, and under constant competition. To be successful at your workplace, you need to sit in front of a computer, under blue light, working long hours, neglecting other activities. Also, eating healthy is pretty hard now, especially when under time pressure. More important might be, having the mindset required to succeed in such a system might be a result of the stress hormones, such as serotonin, adrenaline, cortisol etc., most of the time. Although, of course, ambition and work ethic do not have to be signs of a bad metabolism.

Being in perfect health or even recovering from being unhealthy on the other hand might require one to move to a place with a constantly warm climate, a good food supply and a generally low stress environment. This is hard to accomplish when you are young, unhealthy and there aren't a lot of resources at your disposal. Also, being flexibel might be better for health than running on habits; the latter might be a prerequisite for productive action and therefore for success in most cases tho.

I see getting competent and achieving mastery as something beautiful, and there probably have to be sacrifice to achieve something worthwhile, but on the other hand, wrecking my health doing that sounds awful.

So my question would be, and it's more of a philosophical one than purely practical: how to achieve good health long-term and also achieve success (mostly in financial terms) in the modern western society?
 
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LUH 3417

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It seems like todays society is structured in such a way that success (resource-wise, being of high status) is only attainable by partaking in destructive behavior. Examples: To be academically successful you need to study information, of which a lot is not useful in the real world, under artificial blue light, and under constant competition. To be successful at your workplace, you need to sit in front of a computer, under blue light, working long hours, neglecting other activities. Also, eating healthy is pretty hard now, especially when under time pressure. More important might be, having the mindset required to succeed in such a system might be a result of the stress hormones, such as serotonin, adrenaline, cortisol etc., most of the time. Although, of course, ambition and work ethic do not have to be signs of a bad metabolism.

Being in perfect health or even recovering from being unhealthy on the other hand might require one to move to a place with a constantly warm climate, a good food supply and a generally low stress environment. This is hard to accomplish when you are young, unhealthy and there aren't a lot of resources at your disposal. Also, being flexibel might be better for health than running on habits; the latter might be a prerequisite for productive action and therefore for success in most cases tho.

I see getting competent and achieving mastery as something beautiful, and there probably have to be sacrifice to achieve something worthwhile, but on the other hand, wrecking my health doing that sounds awful.

So my question would be, and it's more of a philosophical one than purely practical: how to achieve good health long-term and also achieve success (mostly in financial terms) in the modern western society?
You can do both to some extent. This sounds like a very helpless way of thinking, honestly, that you can only have one or the othe . A lot of academic programs are online or distance learning. You can study under red lamps, on your own time. I don’t think it’s as simple as information is either useful or not useful. Even things that are not true are useful because they help you eventually learn to discern what is false from what is true.

For example, you could work in a restaurant in a metropolitan US city and save $20,000 in a year then move to rural Mexico the next year where the cost of living is very low and you’ll have access to sunshine and fresh fruit, if your objective is to have a nice climate and fresh food. Working in a restaurant is not that stressful, unless you’re autistic or can’t walk. Now do you want to own an infinity pool and a mansion? I don’t understand the sentiment of avoiding stress. Don’t you need stress to grow and actualize?
 

tankasnowgod

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It seems like todays society is structured in such a way that success (resource-wise, being of high status) is only attainable by partaking in destructive behavior. Examples: To be academically successful you need to study information, of which a lot is not useful in the real world, under artificial blue light, and under constant competition. To be successful at your workplace, you need to sit in front of a computer, under blue light, working long hours, neglecting other activities. Also, eating healthy is pretty hard now, especially when under time pressure. More important might be, having the mindset required to succeed in such a system might be a result of the stress hormones, such as serotonin, adrenaline, cortisol etc., most of the time. Although, of course, ambition and work ethic do not have to be signs of a bad metabolism.

Being in perfect health or even recovering from being unhealthy on the other hand might require one to move to a place with a constantly warm climate, a good food supply and a generally low stress environment. This is hard to accomplish when you are young, unhealthy and there aren't a lot of resources at your disposal. Also, being flexibel might be better for health than running on habits; the latter might be a prerequisite for productive action and therefore for success in most cases tho.

I see getting competent and achieving mastery as something beautiful, and there probably have to be sacrifice to achieve something worthwhile, but on the other hand, wrecking my health doing that sounds awful.

So my question would be, and it's more of a philosophical one than purely practical: how to achieve good health long-term and also achieve success (mostly in financial terms) in the modern western society?

You tend to be right, if you are thinking of "working class" success, which is pretty much what you describe in your post. I've always thought there was some difference between the sort of "working yourself to death" success, and real true success. Recently, I came across this video by Reggie Middleton which connected the dots for me, better than anything I've seen or heard before, and all in just under 17 minutes-



Excellent points made by him all around. Yes, some people make higher wages working than others. Yes, some people can work longer hours than others. But any time you do that, you always hit a hard limit of how much you can work, as we all only have 24 hours in a day. But I really don't think you can achieve that true financial success you hint at without adopting the "capitalist" mindset. Long term, the outlook for the "highly paid working class" is looking bleaker and bleaker.

I still think it would take some time, depending on where you are starting from, but I think almost anyone could probably make it to the capitalist class he talks about in 5-10 years, if you really understand the mindset he's talking about. You may work some long and hard hours in that time, however. At the same time, I think there are some amazing opportunities out there where the same person could achieve that sort of success in just a year or two, more so than at any point in history.

I also think there is great training out there on the success mindset, from the likes of Napoleon Hill and Earl Nightengale. Looking at the two paragraphs I wrote about, you could be more optimistic or more pessimistic than in the past. Almost seems like they contradict each other, but I don't really see it that way.

One other note, being young, you likely have advantages at your disposal that older people don't have, the best being a lack of mortgage and lack of debt (hopefully). "Owning" a house is sold to the majority as the best investment you can make, but the dirty secret is that most people don't truly "own" their house, they share it with a bank and "own" a mortgage. Keep in mind that a lot of things that are sold as "success" in the mainstream thought of things are really an illusion, and if you really think about things and follow them through, you can make much better decisions than just going by other's default perceptions.
 
OP
milkboi

milkboi

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You can do both to some extent. This sounds like a very helpless way of thinking, honestly, that you can only have one or the othe . A lot of academic programs are online or distance learning. You can study under red lamps, on your own time. I don’t think it’s as simple as information is either useful or not useful. Even things that are not true are useful because they help you eventually learn to discern what is false from what is true.

For example, you could work in a restaurant in a metropolitan US city and save $20,000 in a year then move to rural Mexico the next year where the cost of living is very low and you’ll have access to sunshine and fresh fruit, if your objective is to have a nice climate and fresh food. Working in a restaurant is not that stressful, unless you’re autistic or can’t walk. Now do you want to own an infinity pool and a mansion? I don’t understand the sentiment of avoiding stress. Don’t you need stress to grow and actualize?

You are right, the wording of my post might have implied too much of an either...or situation. But working in a restaurant doesn't sound like you could make a lot of money, and lead tp financial security all of your life. And the more financially rewarding jobs are, the more stress they usually cause.

I agree that stress is needed to some degree, but when already in a bad place health-wise, the overall system becomes less robust to stress. And then balancing the stress, which is obligatory for earning money and therefore improving health, and health itself, which decreases when stress gets too high, becomes a problem...

All in all, I appreciate your feedback, I am very much in a state of learned helpless right now. :oops:
 

LUH 3417

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You are right, the wording of my post might have implied too much of an either...or situation. But working in a restaurant doesn't sound like you could make a lot of money, and lead tp financial security all of your life. And the more financially rewarding jobs are, the more stress they usually cause.

I agree that stress is needed to some degree, but when already in a bad place health-wise, the overall system becomes less robust to stress. And then balancing the stress, which is obligatory for earning money and therefore improving health, and health itself, which decreases when stress gets too high, becomes a problem...

All in all, I appreciate your feedback, I am very much in a state of learned helpless right now. :oops:
I had the response I did because I am prone to this way of thinking. I agree working in a restaurant will not give you financial security but I was thinking about short term goals and improving health. I happen to work for a millionaire who inherited his wealth from his very successful mother. He is 78 and has been extremely depressed all his life and has multiple health issues. Maybe he would have been dead years ago if he was poor, but his quality of life is very low considering how much disposable income he has. I think accomplishing what you desire can be very health promoting and it’s not always necessarily tied to financial gain.
 

ShotTrue

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You should read rich dad poor dad. Also look into ways to make money that aren't so heavily depended on computers. Get out the rat race as Robert Kiyozaki says
 

Cirion

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I had the response I did because I am prone to this way of thinking. I agree working in a restaurant will not give you financial security but I was thinking about short term goals and improving health. I happen to work for a millionaire who inherited his wealth from his very successful mother. He is 78 and has been extremely depressed all his life and has multiple health issues. Maybe he would have been dead years ago if he was poor, but his quality of life is very low considering how much disposable income he has. I think accomplishing what you desire can be very health promoting and it’s not always necessarily tied to financial gain.

I never understand people who are rich but poor health. Yeah money doesn't directly make you happy but there are some immediate changes I would make which would have DRASTIC effects on my health positively

- Undergo a battery of blood tests and metabolic marker tests probably valued in the $k's, and repeat these tests at least twice a year if money was not an issue
- Move to a perfect climate like Hawaii or other sunny warm place
- Hire someone to grow crops for me, so I can eat totally fresh fruits and such

... Just to name a couple things I'd do with huge impacts to health. Maybe inheriting money is the real issue though, because if you inherit it you probably don't appreciate money as much as if you've had to struggle to earn it. Also most people, rich people as well as poor people, are not very health minded.

Back to the OP, I can share the negative sentiments. I think most 9-5 jobs are soul sucking. I have been wanting to retire from my job almost from day one LOL to be 100% frank I only stick it out because of the pay. I wouldn't be able to convince myself to switch to a different job unless it paid at least as well. Keep in mind I suffered a LOT to get this job, 6-7 years in college, lots of sleepless nights, excess alcohol and caffeine to get here, so I'm not gonna be quick to ditch it even if it's soul sucking, simply because the pay is good. But because it is soul sucking I do look for ways to accelerate the retirement plan.

A comment was made earlier disparaging mortgages but long term I think they are smart as long as you get a mortgage well within your means. I bought a house about 33% of my means, so it doesn't hurt too much, although I think I still paid too much. I'm down to only 80k owed on it though, which is not bad at all. I only have a few years left on the loan and I'm still young (32) will have it paid by 40, which is great, because then I'll have "Free" housing at 40. I put free in quotes because yeah I still pay taxes etc.

The thing is that housing is required unless you like being homeless. So yeah, housing is usually a "waste" of money, but it's like food - kind of necessary lol. You can either rent for the rest of your life and literally throw out money, or at least increase capital by putting it into a house.
 
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theLaw

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Open a food cart. There, problem solved. Low stress, high profit.

Learn to use a calculator early and often, and you'll be shocked at how much profit very basic jobs can produce.

Status is the opiate of the masses.
 

Luann

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You should read rich dad poor dad. Also look into ways to make money that aren't so heavily depended on computers. Get out the rat race as Robert Kiyozaki says

I love Robert Kiyozaki :]
 

Fractality

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Also the social aspect of maintaining relationships which often requires partaking in substances and foods that will knock you off track for a while.
 

tankasnowgod

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A comment was made earlier disparaging mortgages but long term I think they are smart as long as you get a mortgage well within your means. I bought a house about 33% of my means, so it doesn't hurt too much, although I think I still paid too much. I'm down to only 80k owed on it though, which is not bad at all. I only have a few years left on the loan and I'm still young (32) will have it paid by 40, which is great, because then I'll have "Free" housing at 40. I put free in quotes because yeah I still pay taxes etc.

If you pay off your house in 8 years, you would certainly be the exception, especially considering how young you will be. Most people carry a mortgage their entire lives. Did you know it literally translates to "Death Pledge?" If you follow through on your plan, you would indeed be very smart, but notice...... you wouldn't have a mortgage anymore. You would truly own a house.
 

Cirion

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If you pay off your house in 8 years, you would certainly be the exception, especially considering how young you will be. Most people carry a mortgage their entire lives. Did you know it literally translates to "Death Pledge?" If you follow through on your plan, you would indeed be very smart, but notice...... you wouldn't have a mortgage anymore. You would truly own a house.

Ahhh fair enough. I mis-interpreted your post. I agree 100%. Having a mortgage your whole life is a horrible idea. You might as well rent in that scenario, it would indeed be better. Renting is cheaper short term but more expensive long term. But if you never pay off a house, renting is cheaper long term too. People who have mortgages their whole life are examples of people NOT living within their means. There are lots of people that love to "Upgrade" their houses too, so they finally pay off a house only to get a new mortgage!!! What's strange to me is I know a young couple doing just this... What's even stranger is the fact that I THOUGHT they were money smart!! (They have done the dave ramsey class etc). Now not to be hypocritical but I MAY have to do this myself, if I want to live somewhere really nice like Hawaii. What I'm thinking I'll do though, is probably move somewhere cheaper first, that's still pretty nice like FL, and maybe later move somewhere even better when I have the capital to do so so as to avoid another mortgage. My goal is to pay in cash the next house I get, or at least payoff most (80%) the house in the first payment and the last 20% within a couple year.

Being single with no kids and a decent paying job has its perks. I used to curse my perpetual singleness but now I realize for most people, marriage is the quickest way to get broke LOL. Between the fact that *most* (not all I admit) women are very needy when it comes to money - between wanting expensive houses (My ex wanted a 300k house, a 14k engagement ring, going out for restaurants a lot, just to name a few) - plus kids come later, eat up all your capital, and more so if you fund their college =P (even more so if you get divorced and lost half or more of your stuff!!!) So, Now I am happy to be single LOL

Funny, it is infact people that had mortgages their whole lives (my parents for one) that motivated me NOT to go down that same road. They are FINALLY getting it paid off... At age 70!! No thanks, I'm gonna be done 30 years sooner =P
 
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morgan#1

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It’s completely impossible to have both of those. This modern world is built on stress, those are the pillars that hold it up. Hope, everyone hopes, that’s what keeps us going. We wish we were rich, wish we lived on a different coast.

Reminds me of a sci-fi movie out in 2013,
Snowpiercer.

I truly hope, if your avatar is any sign of your age, that you get really rich really fast. And then you’ll realize what a mirage it is. But I do think you have the right idea going: health is #1
 
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lampofred

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Most of the top people in my work seem very healthy. Calm, not verbose, sharp. It's only the new people at the bottom of the totem pole (aka me...) who get easily stressed. I think 9-5 jobs are only soul-sucking if you don't have the personality for them or are already burnt-out. For others, these jobs are literally a dream come true. Good steady paycheck, no physical effort or danger, stable hours, etc.
 

morgan#1

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Most of the top people in my work seem very healthy. Calm, not verbose, sharp. It's only the new people at the bottom of the totem pole (aka me...) who get easily stressed. I think 9-5 jobs are only soul-sucking if you don't have the personality for them or are already burnt-out. For others, these jobs are literally a dream come true. Fat paycheck, no physical effort or danger, stable hours, etc.
They’re sucking the life out of those people at the bottom. What’s sad is they don’t even know it
 

Cirion

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Most of the top people in my work seem very healthy. Calm, not verbose, sharp. It's only the new people at the bottom of the totem pole (aka me...) who get easily stressed. I think 9-5 jobs are only soul-sucking if you don't have the personality for them or are already burnt-out. For others, these jobs are literally a dream come true. Fat paycheck, no physical effort or danger, stable hours, etc.

I dunno, it seems hit or miss to me. For every healthy manager there is a super unhealthy one.

I WILL say at the REALLY high end of the food chain (Executive level, CEO) in my company most people at this level seem very healthy. I think that's because when your androgens are really at a good point, this gives you the ambition required to rise above even just regular manager level. Also you have to have an awesome personality to succeed at executive level management, and that's generally not possible with a poor metabolism. The unhealthy people I see are usually at lower level management positions. Our CEO is very vibrant and full of life, pleasant to be around and talk to, very fluent and purposeful in speech and actions.

People in poor health rarely exceed low level management, at least from what I've seen. You have to be a people person to make it to executive levels. Unhealthy people often are not vibrant or enthusiastic enough to make it.

Executive level / CEO are the face of the company, often seeing other CEO's and even international leaders like our CEO, so it is VITAL that they are extremely vibrant and healthy and pleasant. There is no way you can do this and be unhealthy and do a proper job.
 
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tankasnowgod

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Your title is a little off. It’s completely impossible to have both of those.

Not true. It's absolutely possible to have both. Every once in a while, you meet someone who has both. But, no doubt, the world is rigged against you to have either. And yes, you won't likely have either one by default nowadays. You certainly have to seek both out. Difficult? Maybe. Impossible? Only to those who have the wrong mindset and never seek out either.
 

LUH 3417

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Most of the top people in my work seem very healthy. Calm, not verbose, sharp. It's only the new people at the bottom of the totem pole (aka me...) who get easily stressed. I think 9-5 jobs are only soul-sucking if you don't have the personality for them or are already burnt-out. For others, these jobs are literally a dream come true. Good steady paycheck, no physical effort or danger, stable hours, etc.
I agree. I think people are stressed about not being stressed. They are so bored that they become mentally ill. It’s the constant rumination about what to do and not doing anything that drives people crazy.
 

morgan#1

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Not true. It's absolutely possible to have both. Every once in a while, you meet someone who has both. But, no doubt, the world is rigged against you to have either. And yes, you won't likely have either one by default nowadays. You certainly have to seek both out. Difficult? Maybe. Impossible? Only to those who have the wrong mindset and never seek out either.
rescinded that. I didn’t read until after, oops
 

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