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Study: Less Sugar Quickly Improves Health Of Overweight Kids Adults

Mossy

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Fructose effects on the liver have been discusses quite a bit here (see tyw posts for example), afaik there is no conclusion as to whether it's dangerous or safe, even in the context of fruits and fruit juices. How much one consumes at once may be an issue too.
If I'm understanding your comment correctly, wouldn't it be fair to say that Peat has concluded that fructose is "safe", as consumed according to his principles?
 

Wagner83

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If I'm understanding your comment correctly, wouldn't it be fair to say that Peat has concluded that fructose is "safe", as consumed according to his principles?
Afaik he does not recommend to take heaps of it at once, if you eat some fruits or a big glass of orange juice you are not drowning yourself in fructose. I should have been clearer though, as far as I am concerned the debate on fructose is still very much open. I know two people who do well with lots of fructose, haidut (pepsi) and Jennifer (fruits). There was a member here who got acute pancreatitis from a fruitarian diet, I know I got issues too.
 

Mossy

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Afaik he does not recommend to take heaps of it at once, if you eat some fruits or a big glass of orange juice you are not drowning yourself in fructose. I should have been clearer though, as far as I am concerned the debate on fructose is still very much open. I know two people who do well with lots of fructose, haidut (pepsi) and Jennifer (fruits). There was a member here who got acute pancreatitis from a fruitarian diet, I know I got issues too.
Thanks for clarifying. I'm always interested to learn how people are implementing this pro-sugar approach. I say pro-sugar, not necessarily meaning an inordinate amount, but just as compared to the current consensus of anti-sugar of any amount. I would imagine, as you note, that not everyone could take the same amount of sugar, but each would have to test it to see what works for them. I can testify that it has been beneficial for me, using natural sources primarily, and processed secondarily; but I still have a bit of apprehension about it, due to some of the effects it seems to have had on my oral health: bleeding gums and weaker teeth (chipped tooth). Though, it seems I've solved that with better oral hygiene. It's not an easy fix, because I was brushing right after eating sugar or drinking orange juice, which I had forgotten is bad for enamel -- or so I've read. So, it's a two-edged sword: if you leave the sugar on, it's bad; if you brush it off, it's bad. My work around is to do oil-pulling with coconut oil, and rinse with salt and/or baking soda. There is also the constant anti-sugar narrative throughout all main stream media that is challenging my conversion back to sugar. I say back to sugar, because when I was younger and more impulsive, I would just eat the sugar my body craved and it seemed to keep me in a fairly healthy state. I would guess, my craving for the sugar was evidence of my pre-hypothyroid/stressed state and the sugar was keeping me from any chronically worse state.

I wonder what all the factors were with the pancreatitis situation. I mention this, because I was told by a Chinese doctor to stay away from fruit and sugar, and specifically oranges, due to the high potassium and sugar. I read that pancreatitis is caused by low potassium, which would seem to be contrary to a high fruit diet. Maybe it's an imbalance of potassium, not necessarily low; but either way, could the potassium have been the issue and not the sugar? No doubt, this is a really simplified evaluation of it, but I'm just attempting to discern if sugar was the issue.

Apprehensions aside, the Peat way has been the most beneficial approach to date for me, and I've been in a bad state for about 7 years: hypothyroid, adrenal fatigue, chronic fatigue, etc. I've tried a Traditional Chinese Medicine diet: low-meat, high grains, legumes, vegetables, acupuncture, tea, and Chinese supplements, which I did not feel good on. I tried the Adamo blood typing diet, which I felt was better than the TCM diet, but still lacking. I've tried other various herbs, teas, and many different supplements, and nothing has worked as well the Peat's advice. I'm not saying there weren't aspects of the other things that I tried that weren't beneficial, but ultimately the anti-sugar approach didn't work for me. By no means am I doubting the negative experience of others, it's just that the positive effects have been so evident for me.
 

Birdie

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Interesting Mossy. And I always remember that by sugar, Ray is speaking as a biochemist speaks. So, some seem to think he's just advising a high table sugar diet. Similar, but not similar, would be to say a high protein would mean lots of protein powder. When specifically questioned about sugar, he'll tend to explain it's sugar in fruit that he's saying is helpful, and that table sugar is good in small quantities or when fruit isn't available/affordable.

I love the way he includes everybody's situation. My drift is he says to do what you can afford, what you have time for, what agrees with you, what you can... His approach is so different from all the others and their diets!

Seems kinda funny to me when somebody announces the Ray Peat diet isn't working. There is no RP diet. It's an approach including raising metabolism, reducing serotonin, etc. But if somebody just approaches it as a diet, high table sugar, milk, orange juice. Hey, you gotta test the milks to find one that works for you. It's not just milk. And Ray tells people how to slowly ease into milk. That's just one example. It takes time, and I keep learning new things. Can't get it in a week or a month. But people who just try to follow what they think is his diet, might have lousy results but they might be far far from Peat.
 

Crazycoco

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Sucrose is not a problem at all If you had a good overall diet with adequat nutrient intake.

all that anti-sucrose or fructose crusade is hysteria.

Regarding the children, it's because they are not aware of their overall caloric intake in a aboundant world.
Overconsuption, clearly not sucrose itself.

Keep pufa law and eat your table sucrose If you want.

Fructose, a New Truth? Meta-Analyses Exonerate Fructose... as Part of Non-Hypercaloric Diets and in Normal Amounts - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone
 

Mossy

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Interesting Mossy. And I always remember that by sugar, Ray is speaking as a biochemist speaks. So, some seem to think he's just advising a high table sugar diet. Similar, but not similar, would be to say a high protein would mean lots of protein powder. When specifically questioned about sugar, he'll tend to explain it's sugar in fruit that he's saying is helpful, and that table sugar is good in small quantities or when fruit isn't available/affordable.

I love the way he includes everybody's situation. My drift is he says to do what you can afford, what you have time for, what agrees with you, what you can... His approach is so different from all the others and their diets!

Seems kinda funny to me when somebody announces the Ray Peat diet isn't working. There is no RP diet. It's an approach including raising metabolism, reducing serotonin, etc. But if somebody just approaches it as a diet, high table sugar, milk, orange juice. Hey, you gotta test the milks to find one that works for you. It's not just milk. And Ray tells people how to slowly ease into milk. That's just one example. It takes time, and I keep learning new things. Can't get it in a week or a month. But people who just try to follow what they think is his diet, might have lousy results but they might be far far from Peat.
No doubt, that is the challenge-- having the patience and keen sense to evaluate how your body is responding, and then adjusting to your specific need(s). But, that is a good thing and makes the most sense, versus a blanket approach. Though, like many of us, I know how it is to not be well, and you just want to grab the closest and warmest blanket you can find ;).
 

Pompadour

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I wonder what all the factors were with the pancreatitis situation.
Could be malic acid?
Recently i.ve had a first in my life pancreatitis pain - it was not funny at all. And Before that i have started to take malic acid as a supplement to help with bile flow. So i wonder what if malic acid is not good for pancreas in big quantities?
 

Mossy

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Could be malic acid?
Recently i.ve had a first in my life pancreatitis pain - it was not funny at all. And Before that i have started to take malic acid as a supplement to help with bile flow. So i wonder what if malic acid is not good for pancreas in big quantities?
Have you ruled out that excess sugar was not a factor? I ask, not because I think it was, but in an attempt to learn more and determine if there are any ill consequences of a high-sugar diet.
 

Pompadour

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Have you ruled out that excess sugar was not a factor?
I didn't eat a lot of sugar before this. I started to eat a lot of sugar in the form of honey after this acute episode - because i couldn;t eat anything else.

But the other suspected is milk. Before my pancreatitis episode i started eat significally more milk - whole goat milk . And i am not sure what is more guilty - milk or malic acid.
 

rei

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Sugar is unhealthy in excess amounts, but good in moderation. What decides the correct amount is your expenditure and other macros consumed. When the blood is full, the cells are full and glycogen stores are full, then you should not eat more since everything after that is converted to fat. If you go into this mode there are several undesirable effects, the most notable ones are a very unhealthy lipid profile and oxidative stress from your body working overtime in synthesizing this fat.
 

NathanK

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A packet of sugar is 15 calories for those who don't know. Use that for scale. I think where some may consume excess to displace nutrients as Ray mentioned is with easily consumable sweet drinks. Without those (and pastries) I think it would be fairly hard to overconsume sugar to any degree.
 

Mossy

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When the blood is full, the cells are full and glycogen stores are full, then you should not eat more since everything after that is converted to fat. If you go into this mode there are several undesirable effects, the most notable ones are a very unhealthy lipid profile and oxidative stress from your body working overtime in synthesizing this fat.
Apart from lab results, what would be the obvious symptoms, fatigue?
 

Mossy

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A packet of sugar is 15 calories for those who don't know. Use that for scale. I think where some may consume excess to displace nutrients as Ray mentioned is with easily consumable sweet drinks. Without those (and pastries) I think it would be fairly hard to overconsume sugar to any degree.
It was my understanding that some Peaters could actually drink sweet drinks throughout the day and actually thrive on them, countering their hypothyroidism. Are you saying that in general, most can't do this?
 

rei

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Apart from lab results, what would be the obvious symptoms, fatigue?
When your body goes into this mode your LDL starts to rise. If you really overdo it, the profile switches towards small dense LDL. Insulin level becomes high, this is your body forcing the cells to take in more sugar than they want. This makes the cells swell up which results in capillary resistance, which causes blood pressure to rise. A result from this is sometimes tinnitus. When excess sugar intake persists the fasting blood glucose rises due to downregulated insulin sensitivity. BP and blood sugar you can easily measure.

If you have paid attention you notice i pretty much described t2 diabetes. It is simply a disease of carbohydrate toxicity. The role of (P)UFA is that it prevents uncoupling of the mitochondria, so the ability of the cells to ramp up metabolism and burn off excess sugar is hindered.
 
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Mossy

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When your body goes into this mode your LDL starts to rise. If you really overdo it, the profile switches towards small dense LDL. Insulin level becomes high, this is your body forcing the cells to take in more sugar than they want. This makes the cells swell up which results in capillary resistance, which causes blood pressure to rise. A result from this is sometimes tinnitus. When excess sugar intake persists the fasting blood glucose rises due to downregulated insulin sensitivity. BP and blood sugar you can easily measure.

If you have paid attention you notice i pretty much described t2 diabetes. It is simply a disease of carbohydrate toxicity. The role of (P)UFA is that it prevents uncoupling of the mitochondria, so the ability of the cells to ramp up metabolism and burn off excess sugar is hindered.
I know this is probably Peat general health 101 and I should know this already, but this is really helpful -- thank you.
 

NathanK

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It was my understanding that some Peaters could actually drink sweet drinks throughout the day and actually thrive on them, countering their hypothyroidism. Are you saying that in general, most can't do this?
No, I'm just making an argument for when too much may be the problem. I think many can do just that and not have a problem. I was personally a little surprised how little a packet of sugar really is compared to a 3000 calorie diet. Sugar found in a cup of orange juice of course is packed with a lot more than just sugar calories. YMMV, depending on your state of health.
 

Mossy

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No, I'm just making an argument for when too much may be the problem. I think many can do just that and not have a problem. I was personally a little surprised how little a packet of sugar really is compared to a 3000 calorie diet. Sugar found in a cup of orange juice of course is packed with a lot more than just sugar calories. YMMV, depending on your state of health.
Ok, thank you for clarifying.
 

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