Westside PUFAs
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2015
- Messages
- 1,972
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Click Here if you want to upgrade your account
If you were able to post but cannot do so now, send an email to admin at raypeatforum dot com and include your username and we will fix that right up for you.
nograde said:Interesting tidbit from the study:
" ... Suppression of intestinal microflora in atherosclerosis-prone mice inhibited dietary-choline-enhanced atherosclerosis."
Summary: Supplementation of choline promotes elevated blood levels of the substance, which serves a marker for inflammation and likely causes coronary plaques or ischemia. Natural sources of choline, such as egg yolks and liver, do not possess this effect due to their lack of trimethylamine (TMAO). Seafood possesses high levels of TMAO, but the liver processes this chemical and renders it benign.nograde said:
So from B vitamin supplements. Choline is bad, folic acid is bad, is there anything else? What about B12 in supplements? B6(p5p) is ok for sure..DaveFoster said:post 114189Summary: Supplementation of choline promotes elevated blood levels of the substance, which serves a marker for inflammation and likely causes coronary plaques or ischemia. Natural sources of choline, such as egg yolks and liver, do not possess this effect due to their lack of trimethylamine (TMAO). Seafood possesses high levels of TMAO, but the liver processes this chemical and renders it benign.nograde said:
The take-away: Don't supplement choline; get it from food sources such as egg yolks, liver, or seafood.
B vitamins that should be avoided in large doses include riboflavin (although smaller doses are okay), niacin (aka. nicotinic acid, aka. pyridine-3-carboxylic acid, [arguably because it promotes prostaglandin synthesis]), inositol hexanicotinate (although some disagree like burtlancast, who is a fan of Albert Hoffman's pro-niacin and pro-inositol hexanicotinate stance), folic acid (due to its toxicity), and choline (due to its implication in ischemia and coronary disease).YuraCZ said:So from B vitamin supplements. Choline is bad, folic acid is bad, is there anything else? What about B12 in supplements? B6(p5p) is ok for sure..
and B1 - Thiamin-hydrochlorid is ok?DaveFoster said:post 114201B vitamins that should be avoided in large doses include riboflavin (although smaller doses are okay), niacin (aka. nicotinic acid, aka. pyridine-3-carboxylic acid, [arguably because it promotes prostaglandin synthesis]), inositol hexanicotinate (although some disagree like burtlancast, who is a fan of Albert Hoffman's pro-niacin and pro-inositol hexanicotinate stance), folic acid (due to its toxicity), and choline (due to its implication in ischemia and coronary disease).YuraCZ said:So from B vitamin supplements. Choline is bad, folic acid is bad, is there anything else? What about B12 in supplements? B6(p5p) is ok for sure..
All others are fair game, should you get the correct bioavailableforms.
YuraCZ said:and B1 - Thiamin-hydrochlorid is ok?
Probably. It definitely possesses a CA inhibitor effect like acetazolamide.haidut said:Just a quick note for those people that do not have allithiamine (i.e. the study above was done with allithiamine). Allithiamine is a fat-soluble version of thiamine and is much more expensive and hard to find. The question is if we can achieve similar results with regular thiamine Hcl.
I posted a study some time ago on various dosage regimens of thiamine Hcl. It looks like the highest dose 1,500mg achieved similar concentrations to the dosage used by the study above. I have attached two screenshots from each study so you can see the similar plasma concentrations. So, it looks like regular thiamine Hcl is about 50% less effective (absorbable) in achieving the same blood concentrations achieved with allithiamine. The dosage used in the study above was close to 1,000mg while the dosage in the other study was 1,500mg.
NOTE! - My comments are simply about achieving similar blood concentrations of the two different types of B1. I have no idea if the two vitamins have same (or even similar) effects in tissues, and in fact there are several studies saying the two versions of B1 have different effectiveness in terms of conversion into various cofactors for carbohydrate metabolism. So, no guarantee that thiamine Hcl will be as effective as allithiamine but I suspect it will be fairly close.
why can the liver process the TMAO from seafood but not from a choline supplement?Summary: Supplementation of choline promotes elevated blood levels of the substance, which serves a marker for inflammation and likely causes coronary plaques or ischemia. Natural sources of choline, such as egg yolks and liver, do not possess this effect due to their lack of trimethylamine (TMAO). Seafood possesses high levels of TMAO, but the liver processes this chemical and renders it benign.
The take-away: Don't supplement choline; get it from food sources such as egg yolks, liver, or seafood.
The study suggests it's a higher dosage that causes some negative effects.why can the liver process the TMAO from seafood but not from a choline supplement?