Study Claims That Coconut Oil Increase Oxidative Stress Compared To Sesame Oil (High PUFA)

Discussion in 'Diet' started by stargazer1111, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. stargazer1111

    stargazer1111 Member

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    I am baffled by these results. They fly in the face of what I understand about saturated vs. polyunsaturated fats.

    I haven't been able to debunk these results yet, but maybe someone else can.

    This study shows higher LDL, lower HDL, and higher liver enzymes in the group that consumed coconut oil compared to the group that consumed sesame oil (which is about half PUFA).

    One thing I noticed is that they used standard error of the mean as opposed to standard deviation in their statistical analyses. Standard error is kind of frowned upon by some because it increases the separation between the error bars to give the appearance of a more significant difference than there really is.

    It's also published in the Indian Journal of Experimental Biology which has had an impact factor hovering around 1 since 2010. For comparison, a really good journal like Science has an impact factor of 41, so these results could be either bad or totally made up.

    EDIT: Posted the wrong study initially.
     

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  2. redsun

    redsun Member

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    Let me ease your worries about saturated fats vs polyunsaturated fats. Humans have always had very low PUFA intake until recently. Natural foods dont have much PUFA. Oils like coconut oil and sesame oil are not natural, nor do they contain any micronutrients that fats are supposed to come with, namely fat solubles and a little bit of choline and a few Bs... SFA can actually fatten up the liver more so then PUFA. Chris masterjohn wrote an article and talked about this. PUFAs seem to be preferentially oxidized:

    "
    Whoa! Hold your horses, you might be thinking. Mr. Masterjohn, haven't you been telling us that saturated fat protects against fatty liver disease?

    Well, yes I have, and I stand by that. But it appears that things are a little more nuanced than they first appeared. As it turns out, saturated fats increase the choline requirement a bit more than PUFAs do. Take a look at the results of this 1957 paper that tested the effect of butter and corn oil on the choline requirement (15):"

    "As it turns out, the choline requirement is about 30% higher on a 30% butter diet than on a 30% corn oil diet. Why would this be? It's not entirely clear, but I have a good guess. As I pointed out in my PUFA Report, “How Essential Are the Essential Fatty Acids?”, studies in rats, humans, and other primates show that 18-carbon PUFA are burned for energy at an extraordinarily high rate compared to other fats. In rats, 60% are burned for energy, 20% are broken down into basic building blocks to make more saturated fatty acids, and most of the rest are secreted into the fur. They do accumulate over time at a slow rate, but the body seems to sense that these fatty acids are an unnecessary oxidative liability and tries to get rid of them however it can. Thus, perhaps saturated fats require more choline to get them out of the liver because they don't scare the liver into burning them for energy so quickly."

    Coconut oil or most any oil for that matter isnt good food anyway as it is empty calories. Better off getting fat from animal sources which actually has some nutrients. No study will ever convince me that natural saturated fat with nutrients is bad for humans, because history shows us this is not the case. On the other hand, I am easily convinced low nutrient oils are no good, whether coconut is worse then sesame makes no difference in my opinion as they are both empty fats.

    https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/blog/2010/11/23/sweet-truth-about-liver-and-egg-yolks/
     
  3. Rafael Lao Wai

    Rafael Lao Wai Member

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    I haven't read the study yet, but from what you mentioned, I can suggest a few ideas.

    Firstly, increased LDL is far from being a bad thing, quite the opposite, this is how the cholesterol is taken to the cells of the body to make hormones and cell structures, so it's absolutely essential, and people with low cholesterol have higher mortality and less verbal fluidity, as well as less intelligence. Lauric acid, one of the fatty acids that form coconut oil, has the ability to raise cholesterol more than any other fatty acid as far as I know, so it only makes sense that consuming coconut oil will increase LDL cholesterol.

    Secondly, HDL cholesterol isn't something you want to elevate. This type of lipoprotein is produced when the body is suffering some kind of assault, from toxins or from excessive exercise, for example. Alcohol increases HDL, endotoxins increase HDL too. The HDL itself probably isn't the issue, the issue is that it indicates that the body is under attack.

    Thirdly, elevated liver enzymes aren't always bad. Things like niacinamide, cyproheptadine and aspirin elevate liver enzymes, but cause no liver damage. Haidut hypothesized that the elevation of liver enzymes can be caused simply by the liver working harder and it's not always a bad thing. I think this hypothesis makes sense in this case, since saturated fatty acids help to clean the gut from endotoxins, and they do that by stimulating their absorption and neutralization by the liver. So, as I see it, the liver is working harder to clean the gut.

    Also, I still hold the opinion that some fat in the liver, as long as the fat is saturated or monounsaturated, is beneficial by protecting the liver against toxins and physical damage and providing heat, which makes the organ function better. If we see it through this lens, then it makes sense why things like coconut oil or tallow or cocoa butter tend to slightly accumulate in the liver, these are the types of fat humans adapted to consume.

    And PUFAs have been proven over and over again to cause liver disease, so having a "clean" liver, at least in this instance, will not protect you from diseases. If a slight accumulation of fat in the liver were bad, then cows would be in a very bad situation, since they get most of their calories from saturated fat that bacteria in their gut produce by fermenting grass.
     
  4. Rafael Lao Wai

    Rafael Lao Wai Member

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    By the way, I'm very wary of garlic. Ever since I read that airplane pilots are advised not to eat garlic before flying, I started to put two and two together and realized why I used to feel so off after ingesting anything with garlic, and the raw form was strong enough to make me really ill once. Just my experience.
     
  5. OP
    stargazer1111

    stargazer1111 Member

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    I agree about LDL. In fact, I don't think the ratios of the different lipoprotein densities matter at all. It's oxidized LDL/VLDL that is the problem and this only occurs if one is consuming polyunsaturated fat from what I can see in the literature.

    I also agree about fat in the liver. If the fat is saturated, it's probably protective to a degree. This is shown by the research where rats were given ethanol and either coconut oil or other oils with higher PUFA concentrations. The rats with the coconut oil incurred no liver damage while the other rats did and the rats that did incur liver damage had it reversed by switching the oil to coconut oil.

    I am also skeptical about garlic. Garlic makes me extremely sick. It irritates my gastrointestinal system and causes pain. There is research showing that it actually irritates your intestines the same way it does your skin when you rub it on.
     
  6. Literally

    Literally Member

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    Re: garlic, that's very interesting about the airline pilots. I have heard someone say that it reduces alpha waves in the brain, even in small quantities. No idea if that's true. I find I crave it sometimes and then it tends to make me feel better. Maybe useful periodically for antibacterial properties but questionable for daily use.

    UPDATE: The garlic pilot thing may be false Pilots told not to eat garlic? : skeptic
     
  7. bk_

    bk_ Member

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    I’ve finished reading through the paper and quite frankly I’m appalled at the low quality of this publication. There are numerous blanket statements that lack references or have inappropriate or improper references. Also spelling and grammar mistakes!! The paper is littered with authoritarian statements to persuade interpretation. Is this journal even peer reviewed? This garbage could never be published in a high impact journal. Only 30 references? I’ve never published anything with less than 97 references.

    On top of that their interpretation of the results is incredibly flawed and their is an obvious bias and conflict of interest towards the garlic oil because this group has been promoting this product.

    They claim that an increase in glutathione from the sesame and garlic oils shows their anti oxidative effects... could it be maybe the physiology is producing this in response to stress? Also the “artherogenic” effects of coconut oil they are claiming is purely based on cholesterol levels which we know to be bunk due to the flawed methodology of the infamous rabbit studies and dozens of other studies that have showed everything from increased longevity to increased cognitive function.

    This paper doesn’t demonstrate at all that coconut oil will clog arteries or cause improper oxidation, this is merely poor interpretation of indirect markers.

    Read Fred Kummerow’s 2013 paper which actually took arteries from bypass patients and then followed up with the same patients years later when they again had bypass surgery and studied the arterial plaque and materials than followed up with animal experiments to control for diet... this research was his magnum opus and the paper was a masterpiece in science.
     
  8. Rafael Lao Wai

    Rafael Lao Wai Member

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    Exactly
     
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