Studies That Find Vitamins Worthless

[Badger]

Seems like every few months, like clockwork, articles come out reporting that such and such "large" study on vitamins shows they have little or no benefit or are harmful. I thought to start a thread that lists these articles and which can be discussed.

 

[Badger]

"When she was a young physician, Dr. Martha Gulati noticed that many of her mentors were prescribing vitamin E and folic acid to patients. Preliminary studies in the early 1990s had linked both supplements to a lower risk of heart disease. She urged her father to pop the pills as well: “Dad, you should be on these vitamins, because every cardiologist is taking them or putting their patients on [them],” recalled Gulati, now chief of cardiology for the University of Arizona College of Medicine-Phoenix. But just a few years later, she found herself reversing course, after rigorous clinical trials found neither vitamin E nor folic acid supplements did anything to protect the heart. Even worse, studies linked high-dose vitamin E to a higher risk of heart failure, prostate cancer and death from any cause. “‘You might want to stop taking [these],’” Gulati told her father."

Older Americans Are Hooked On Vitamins Despite Scarce Evidence They Work
Older Americans Are Hooked On Vitamins Despite Scarce Evidence They Work

 

[Obi-wan]

Synthetics don't work. The Vit.E was synthetic (dl) plus per @Travis High Alpha depletes Gamma and most are sold in PUFA oil

 

[Badger]

Synthetics don't work. The Vit.E was synthetic (dl) plus per @Travis High Alpha depletes Gamma and most are sold in PUFA oil

Thanks for replying. It seems like almost all these debunking studies against vitamins are fundamentally flawed in one or more ways.

 

[Obi-wan]

I do think people take vitamins for too long of a period of time and take to much. I spent a lot of time on this forum regarding Vit E. See my posts

 

[Blossom]

It's hard to take them seriously when you read the following:

"Although the Western diet has a lot of problems — too much sodium, sugar, saturated fat and calories, in general — it’s not short on vitamins, said Alice Lichtenstein, a professor at the Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy at Tufts University."

 

[Dhair]

It's hard to take them seriously when you read the following:

"Although the Western diet has a lot of problems — too much sodium, sugar, saturated fat and calories, in general — it’s not short on vitamins, said Alice Lichtenstein, a professor at the Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy at Tufts University."

You'll find statements like this in virtually every popular medicine article.
No one ever accounts for vitamins being poorly absorbed orally or containing contaminants that would almost entirely eliminate the vitamins' protective effects. If this isnt considered, and the detrimental effects of PUFA aren't taken seriously by physicians, then the conversation about the efficacy of vitamins really isnt worth having.
For example, I would be very surprised if the standard Wal Mart brand of vitamin D raises any person's serum levels significantly.

 

[Blossom]

You'll find statements like this in virtually every popular medicine article.
No one ever accounts for vitamins being poorly absorbed orally or containing contaminants that would almost entirely eliminate the vitamins' protective effects. If this isnt considered, and the detrimental effects of PUFA aren't taken seriously by physicians, then the conversation about the efficacy of vitamins really isnt worth having.
I would be very surprised if the standard Wal Mart brand of vitamin D raises any person's serum levels significantly.

So true.

 

[Badger]

Indeed true.

You'll find statements like this in virtually every popular medicine article.
No one ever accounts for vitamins being poorly absorbed orally or containing contaminants that would almost entirely eliminate the vitamins' protective effects. If this isnt considered, and the detrimental effects of PUFA aren't taken seriously by physicians, then the conversation about the efficacy of vitamins really isnt worth having.
For example, I would be very surprised if the standard Wal Mart brand of vitamin D raises any person's serum levels significantly.

 

[x-ray peat]

I eat a fairly healthy diet with limited processed foods and I have never come close to meeting my RDAs for all vitamins and minerals. The idea that most people can easily meet their minimum nutritional needs from food alone just doesnt seem right. Most eating SAD are even worse off.
I would bet that many of these so-called studies using crappy walmart vitamins are paid for by the drug companies to kill of their competitors

 

[Blossom]

I eat a fairly healthy diet with limited processed foods and I have never come close to meeting my RDAs for all vitamins and minerals. The idea that most people can easily meet their minimum nutritional needs from food alone just doesnt seem right. Most eating SAD are even worse off.
I would bet that many of these so-called studies using crappy walmart vitamins are paid for by the drug companies to kill of their competitors

We should all just eat our pufa's like good boys and girls. Forget about sugar, salt and vitamins we'll get plenty of that stuff in the hospital in our IV's and tube feedings later on...

 

[danishispsychic]

I just tossed a ton of supplements...the money I spent.....

 

[dbh25]

This is tough, my holistic doctor has recommended all kinds of supplements. But how well do we assimilate what is in a pill, compared to getting it from food?
My vitamin D level has definitely gone up from supplements, but I don't feel much of a difference from taking most of these supplements.

 

[Tarmander]

The medical understanding of vitamins is still very much modeled after the deficiency diseases. Basically, until you have pelegra, or scurvy, or whatever, you don’t have a problem.

 

[dbh25]

But if you take Vitamin C pills or eat oranges, how is it all processed in the body?

 

[Amazoniac]

It's hard to take them seriously when you read the following:

"Although the Western diet has a lot of problems — too much sodium, sugar, saturated fat and calories, in general — it’s not short on vitamins, said Alice Lichtenstein, a professor at the Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy at Tufts University."

We should all just eat our pufa's like good boys and girls. Forget about sugar, salt and vitamins we'll get plenty of that stuff in the hospital in our IV's and tube feedings later on...

But I guess there is some truth to it. People do eat a lot of those in extremely unnatural ways, and companies know that their poor foods become more attractive not only from a marketing of the stand of the point but also in terms encouraging their consumption through cravings if supplements are added. If these weren't included, people would find them unappetizing or wouldn't be able to keep eating without having their appetites suppressed.

It's a problem of quality in general: cultivation, processing, production (supplements), transportation, etc.

Milk in context: allergies, ecology, and some myths

"Food allergies are becoming much more common in recent decades, especially in industrialized countries. Most attention has been given to theories about changes in people, such as the reduction in infectious diseases and parasites, or vitamin D deficiency, or harmful effects from vaccinations, and little attention has been given to degradation of the food supply."

"In general, those who pay for research are those with an investment in or commitment to the preservation and expansion of the existing systems of production and distribution. Cheap mass production, durability and long shelf of the life are more important than the effects of foods on health. The biggest industries are usually able to keep public attention away from the harm they do."​

The harmful part comes when they figure out a way to prevent the immediate negative consequences of eating those foods. B-vitamins are very good for this purpose, people can prolong their consumption without feeling ill right away. Various other nutrients are added in symbolic amounts apparently in a way the ensures there will be no detrimental effects from their inclusion but at the same time serving for the marketing of the purposes.

I think it was Chris Masterjohn who wrote that the extensive research on nutrients intensified when foods started to be heavily processed, followed by a need to understand what was missing.

 

[tara]

It's hard to take them seriously when you read the following:

"Although the Western diet has a lot of problems — too much sodium, sugar, saturated fat and calories, in general — it’s not short on vitamins, said Alice Lichtenstein, a professor at the Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy at Tufts University."

Yes.
I've read that the nutrition in many kinds of fruits and vegetables can vary by as much as a factor of 10, depending on soil and growing conditions.
So along with the fact at a lot of people try to live largely on wheat, corn, and soy, and PUFAs and very little fruit, veges or milk, even many of those who do get more fruit and veges may not be getting as much nutrition out of them as would have been the case before industrial agriculture became dominant.

 

[Blossom]

But I guess there is some truth to it. People do eat a lot of those in extremely unnatural ways, and companies know that their poor foods become more attractive not only from a marketing of the stand of the point but also in terms encouraging their consumption through cravings if supplements are added. If these weren't included, people would find them unappetizing or wouldn't be able to keep eating without having their appetites suppressed.

It's a problem of quality in general: cultivation, processing, production (supplements), transportation, etc.

Milk in context: allergies, ecology, and some myths

"Food allergies are becoming much more common in recent decades, especially in industrialized countries. Most attention has been given to theories about changes in people, such as the reduction in infectious diseases and parasites, or vitamin D deficiency, or harmful effects from vaccinations, and little attention has been given to degradation of the food supply."

"In general, those who pay for research are those with an investment in or commitment to the preservation and expansion of the existing systems of production and distribution. Cheap mass production, durability and long shelf of the life are more important than the effects of foods on health. The biggest industries are usually able to keep public attention away from the harm they do."​

The harmful part comes when they figure out a way to prevent the immediate negative consequences of eating those foods. B-vitamins are very good for this purpose, people can prolong their consumption without feeling ill right away. Various other nutrients are added in symbolic amounts apparently in a way the ensures there will be no detrimental effects from their inclusion but at the same time serving for the marketing of the purposes.

I think it was Chris Masterjohn who wrote that the extensive research on nutrients intensified when foods started to be heavily processed, followed by a need to understand what was missing.

Great quotes and thoughts!
I know several people who never take supplements of any kind and seem to be doing just fine. I'm sure for many vitamin pills are not necessary. A long time ago I read some doctor comment that a person could get all the vitamins they need in a day from a Big Mac! I suppose I'm biased though from having deficiencies in the past due to celiac and poor appetite. In truth it's probably highly individual.

 

[Blossom]

Yes.
I've read that the nutrition in many kinds of fruits and vegetables can vary by as much as a factor of 10, depending on soil and growing conditions.
So along with the fact at a lot of people try to live largely on wheat, corn, and soy, and PUFAs and very little fruit, veges or milk, even many of those who do get more fruit and veges may not be getting as much nutrition out of them as would have been the case before industrial agriculture became dominant.

Great point!

 

[tara]

I suppose I'm biased though from having deficiencies in the past due to celiac and poor appetite. In truth it's probably highly individual.

Yeah, lots of us do probably have trouble with actually getting the nourishment out of the food even if it is actually there, and I bet lots of our needs are individual. I think the RDA's are only intended to be averages, not guaranteed to meet everyone's needs, but they are sometimes treated that way.