Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing?

Discussion in 'CO2, Bag Breathing' started by fyo, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. fyo

    fyo Member

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    I'm looking for studies on the long term effects from bag rebreathing a few minutes a day.

    I understand carbon dioxide is beneficial, or at least reduced oxygen pressure, but it seems hard to understand what a few minutes of bag rebreathing could accomplish. I'm curious what happens.
     
  2. mandance

    mandance Member

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    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    Im not sure about the long term benefits but I know Peat often recommends it. One of the more experienced members can probably point you in the right direction. It helps me with relaxation and anxiety, but ofcourse that is short term. I would be interested to know the answer to your question as well.
     
  3. Jenn

    Jenn Member

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  4. edwardBe

    edwardBe Member

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    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    Can someone point me to where RP indicates how long to re-breathe? And has anyone found a more durable device than a paper bag?

    Thanks,

    Ed
     
  5. chris

    chris Member

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    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    "Just until it's uncomfortable, usually a minute or two, depending on the size of the bag. If you do it a few times in a day, you might notice that it makes your skin (e.g., under nails) pinker, by improving circulation. "
     
  6. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    Ed, :welcome
     
  7. edwardBe

    edwardBe Member

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    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    Thanks Charlie and Chris! I don't seem to get uncomfortable from it, but I do get sleepy after about 5 minutes.
     
  8. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    OK, I'm still confused on bag breathing and now, re-breathing. Since you brought this up, I want to get proper understanding.

    I think re-breathing is what I've done thinking it was the normal way to "bag breathe". I thought the point of bag breathing was to breathe in what you breathed out. Then I find people are doing something different than me - just breathing IN air normally through the nose and then breathing OUT into a small paper bag. I don't understand how that has an effect?

    I talked about it before in another thread, but what I do is put a grocery size paper bag over my head, kind of tuck it in around my neck so I've created my own atmosphere inside the bag. I usually sit in a meditative pose and slowly breathe in through my nose and out through my mouth. I let my belly expand as I breathe in and flatten as I breathe out. In a while, the atmosphere in the bag changes as air becomes low and I almost get a little panicky - but if I just breathe through it, in 2 or 3 minutes things change and I can feel a positive effect. At this point, sometimes I take off the bag and continue on meditative breathing. It seems this bag method "leapfrogs" me right into the meditative state faster.

    So, what I'm doing is not the normal bag breathing, from what I understand. Instead, it would be called re-breathing? I want to make sure I'm not doing something bad for me by re-breathing my air.
     
  9. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    I cover my nose and mouth while bag breathing with the bag and make sure to breathe normally. I do not start panting or anything like that. You want it to be as stress free as possible, so slow and easy. And I would keep it at around a couple minutes just like Ray Peat says.

    You are in fact re-breathing the air, and bringing in less oxygen which will increase CO2.
     
  10. edwardBe

    edwardBe Member

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    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    I've been doing the same thing as Charlie. The CO2 rises because our body is steadily lowering the O2 by absorbing it, while adding more CO2 with each exhalation. I think we only start to reabsorb the CO2 after a few minutes as its concentration rises. I don't think exhaling into a paper bag after breathing in room air can have any effect at all, other than providing some small amount of resistance and you can get that by pursed lip breathing which will also cause a bit of CO2 retention. We used to recommend that to emphysema patients to help them avoid decreasing their respiratory drive through hyperventilating while on nasal O2.
     
  11. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    For what it's worth, I found holding my breath more satisfying than bag breathing, but bag breathing requires less effort, so I might do it if I'm sleepy but want more co2 for whatever reason.
     
  12. jaa

    jaa Member

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    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    j.,

    What sort of hold your breath technique do you use?
     
  13. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    There is one where you inhale, hold I think for 3 or 6 seconds, then exhale, hold for 3 or 6 seconds, not sure, and then repeat the whole thing. I used that for a while but then I just started holding my breath intermittently however long I felt comfortable.
     
  14. OP
    fyo

    fyo Member

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    Re: Studies on long term effects from short term rebreathing

    Listening to Peat's CO2 video, it seemed like CO2 spontaneously attaches to amine groups and is thus stabilizing and I imagine increases oxygenation. It also seemed like this was an accumulating effect. I wonder how long this accretion would go on for; how long until the whole body is maximally saturated with CO2? And I wonder how much CO2 is incorporated in one bag breathing exposure?
     
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