Strong Endotoxin Symptoms Despite Eating Clean And Peaty

[gaze]

I have a hunch that it comes from the junkfood,like the OJ and the milg.Mind to try eating normally and not so excentric,like a lot of meat,ripe fruit,gelatine,supps,Potato,Butter,Oysters.Peat but without the weird foodchoices.No one i know 'eats' milk and OJ,it seems weird to me when i tried,stomach issues were to be had too,of course.

yea but how many people do you know that eat watermelon, apples, banana, grapes, etc? I don't think its that weird to refer to orange juice as a food instead of a drink, its just a little bit less fiber than those other fruits. Ray reccomends ORange juice because in ameriaca, almost no fruit is ripe. If all fruit were picked ripe, then a diet of fruit, milk , meats, seafood, eggs, butter, honey, seems much less weird.

 

[Sergey]

My transit time is usually 48 hours, maybie more. Definitely not good. Have tried increasing it with no luck. Even pharmaceutical prokinetics don't help.

Never tought about it like this. Do you think it might be actually better to include some fiber in my diet, because it might increase the transit time, and the benefits of this will outweight the cons?

Its quite likely that you have methane dominated sibo caused by overgrowth of methanogenic archaea.
Very few things can eradicate them, they are resistant to most antibiotics except metronidazole.
Turmeric, coriander, cumin, ginger, cinnamon, red yeast rice, undecylenic acid, Atrantil, allicin, coconut oil and squalamine should help. And fish oil, lol.
Also, methanogens feed on hydrogen produced by bacteria, so keeping hydrogen producers low while eliminating archaea is a good idea too.
Do you have any issues with your gums or throat/tonsils/sinuses?

 

[BearWithMe]

Its quite likely that you have methane dominated sibo caused by overgrowth of methanogenic archaea.
Very few things can eradicate them, they are resistant to most antibiotics except metronidazole.
Turmeric, coriander, cumin, ginger, red yeast rice, undecylenic acid, Atrantil and squalamine should help.
Also, methanogens feed on hydrogen produced by bacteria, so keeping hydrogen producers low while eliminating archaea is a good idea too.
Do you have any issues with your gums?

Thank you very much for this post, finally some hope!!!

Yes, I have gum issues so bad I lost 8 teeth in past year.

Just did some reading and the symptoms are pretty much spot on.

Would methane breath test help to confirm this diagnosis?

 

[Sergey]

Thank you very much for this post, finally some hope!!!

Yes, I have gum issues so bad I lost 8 teeth in past year.

Just did some reading and the symptoms are pretty much spot on.

Would methane breath test help to confirm this diagnosis?

Oh, I was almost sure your gums are bad.

They need to be treated with even higher priority than your gut.

I’d drastically cut carbs intake to the point of doing zero carb for some time. (Whoever reads this, please don’t ban me, I know its very anti-Peat suggestion! If you know how to fix this stuff while eating carbs I will be the first one to follow.)

Not sure about how useful is the test, reaction to treatment is usually a good indicator too.

What happened last year or two so that teeth issues became so severe? Diet change, any dental treatment?

Any root canals by the way?

 

[BearWithMe]

Oh, I was almost sure your gums are bad.

They need to be treated with even higher priority than your gut.

I’d drastically cut carbs intake to the point of doing zero carb for some time. (Whoever reads this, please don’t ban me, I know its very anti-Peat suggestion! If you know how to fix this stuff while eating carbs I will be the first one to follow.)

Not sure about how useful is the test, reaction to treatment is usually a good indicator too.

What happened last year or two so that teeth issues became so severe? Diet change, any dental treatment?

Any root canals by the way?

I 100% believe that going low carb / no carb for a while might be necessary to fix this issue. The only thing that gave me (small but noticeable) relief so far was making sure my diet contains absolutely zero fiber and zero complex carbs / starch. I'm still getting plenty of sugar, tho.

Just saw that you also mentioned sinuses. I have lost part of my hearing and I believe it was caused by inflammation of my eustachian tube. Actually, my issues with sinuses started way before my dental issues.

My first tooth decayed when I started thyroid supplementation. Every time I take something that stimulates thyroid, my dental issues gets much worse, teeth start to hurt and rapidly crumble / decay.

Have no root canals, but have some infected teeth / chronic apical periodontitis that I need to fix ASAP.

What could be done to keep hydrogen producers low?

 

[Sergey]

I 100% believe that going low carb / no carb for a while might be necessary to fix this issue. The only thing that gave me (small but noticeable) relief so far was making sure my diet contains absolutely zero fiber and zero complex carbs / starch. I'm still getting plenty of sugar, tho.

Just saw that you also mentioned sinuses. I have lost part of my hearing and I believe it was caused by inflammation of my eustachian tube. Actually, my issues with sinuses started way before my dental issues.

My first tooth decayed when I started thyroid supplementation. Every time I take something that stimulates thyroid, my dental issues gets much worse, teeth start to hurt and rapidly crumble / decay.

Have no root canals, but have some infected teeth / chronic apical periodontitis that I need to fix ASAP.

What could be done to keep hydrogen producers low?

Oh, it all started with sinuses. I have spoke to so many people with similar story - sinus inflammation, then some years later dental/gut issues.
Methanogens archaea loves periodontal tissue, and its is probably its very important reservoir. I’d suggest keeping mouth as clean as possible. Brushing after every meal of course. Flossing. Oil pulling - its quite powerful and will drag some stuff out of deep tissues. Keeping meal frequency low, no snacking between meals. You want to give them as little as possible.
Salt water gargling should also help.
I’d also do liposomal biofidin LSF/Cat’s Claw elite from Quicksilver Scientific, holding it in the mouth as long as possible. It should help initially. Any infected tooth should be treated.
Herbs/supps listed above should start reducing the load in the gut, methanogens also love small intestine.
No wonder you got better from zero fiber/starch, they seem to enjoy polysaccharides. If you misss vegetables, fennel bulbs, courgettes and carrots could be tried.
It will take time to heal it, but progress should be noticeable quite soon.
All the above comes just from personal experience/some research papers, so some adjustments might be needed.
You can keep hydrogen producers low by limiting carbs. Its a tricky issue because some hydrogen producers are able to displace methanogens, so its not about eradicating “good bugs”. Only few things can remove methanogens directly, combination of rifaximin and neomycin is often effective (and toxic). Rifaximin itself affects mostly hydrogen producers and could be part of the strategy - less hydrogen->weaker methanogens.
i believe its not about identifying the bug and killing it, rather it about consistently creating a terrain it will not tolerate.
There can be other issues associated with methane sibo which might need addressing. Gut mucosa can be irritated and some supplements/herbs should be postponed in that case, until it heals somewhat.
I probably forgot to mention it, propolis is a good ally here, as well as triphala - all those centuries old “health restoring remedies”.

(SENSITIVE IFNO) Omega 3 fatty acids and good quality olive oil inhibit methanogens.

 

[BearWithMe]

Oh, it all started with sinuses. I have spoke to so many people with similar story - sinus inflammation, then some years later dental/gut issues.
Methanogens archaea loves periodontal tissue, and its is probably its very important reservoir. I’d suggest keeping mouth as clean as possible. Brushing after every meal of course. Flossing. Oil pulling - its quite powerful and will drag some stuff out of deep tissues. Keeping meal frequency low, no snacking between meals. You want to give them as little as possible.
Salt water gargling should also help.
I’d also do liposomal biofidin LSF/Cat’s Claw elite from Quicksilver Scientific, holding it in the mouth as long as possible. It should help initially. Any infected tooth should be treated.
Herbs/supps listed above should start reducing the load in the gut, methanogens also love small intestine.
No wonder you got better from zero fiber/starch, they seem to enjoy polysaccharides. If you misss vegetables, fennel bulbs, courgettes and carrots could be tried.
It will take time to heal it, but progress should be noticeable quite soon.
All the above comes just from personal experience/some research papers, so some adjustments might be needed.
You can keep hydrogen producers low by limiting carbs. Its a tricky issue because some hydrogen producers are able to displace methanogens, so its not about eradicating “good bugs”. Only few things can remove methanogens directly, combination of rifaximin and neomycin is often effective (and toxic). Rifaximin itself affects mostly hydrogen producers and could be part of the strategy - less hydrogen->weaker methanogens.
i believe its not about identifying the bug and killing it, rather it about consistently creating a terrain it will not tolerate.
There can be other issues associated with methane sibo which might need addressing. Gut mucosa can be irritated and some supplements/herbs should be postponed in that case, until it heals somewhat.
I probably forgot to mention it, propolis is a good ally here, as well as triphala - all those centuries old “health restoring remedies”.

(SENSITIVE IFNO) Omega 3 fatty acids and good quality olive oil inhibit methanogens.

This is post is super-informative and incredibly helpful. I'm taking notes.

Suddenly a lot of my health issues makes sense. Thank you very much for sharing this!

Which of the natural (or non-pharmaceutical) remedies would you say are most helpful / powerful / effective? Where should I start with the treatment?

 

[BearWithMe]

Its quite likely that you have methane dominated sibo caused by overgrowth of methanogenic archaea.
Very few things can eradicate them, they are resistant to most antibiotics except metronidazole.
Turmeric, coriander, cumin, ginger, cinnamon, red yeast rice, undecylenic acid, Atrantil, allicin, coconut oil and squalamine should help. And fish oil, lol.
Also, methanogens feed on hydrogen produced by bacteria, so keeping hydrogen producers low while eliminating archaea is a good idea too.
Do you have any issues with your gums or throat/tonsils/sinuses?

I started using plenty of raw ginger and coconut oil on friday, right after reading your first post, and I'm having very interesting reaction.

Every single of my health problems got much worse. I'm so bloated it looks like I'm pregnant, huge patches of red, dry, flaky skin appeared on my face, my teeth hurts horribly and my hearing got worse, I can't sleep, I'm lethargic yet agitated, I can't think clearly and I lost my libido. My hair falls like crazy. 10s of hairs every time I touch my scalp. Hope my spouse won't leave before it gets better lol

I think this a proof you are correct, my issues are caused by something that is rapidly killed by ginger, and the die-off is amplifying my issues.

Just have ordered undecylenic acid, triphala, Atrantil and squalamine and I'm determined to finish this pathogen.

This could also explain my bad reaction to thyroid supplement. It stimulated my immune system, my immune system attacked the pathogen, the die-off overloaded my liver and caused my teeth to decay.

Maybe activated charcoal could make the die-off more bearable?

Anyway, this is amazing and I'm so happy I'm finally making some progress

 

[Sergey]

I started using plenty of raw ginger and coconut oil on friday, right after reading your first post, and I'm having very interesting reaction.

Every single of my health problems got much worse. I'm so bloated it looks like I'm pregnant, huge patches of red, dry, flaky skin appeared on my face, my teeth hurts horribly and my hearing got worse, I can't sleep, I'm lethargic yet agitated, I can't think clearly and I lost my libido. My hair falls like crazy. 10s of hairs every time I touch my scalp. Hope my spouse won't leave before it gets better lol

I think this a proof you are correct, my issues are caused by something that is rapidly killed by ginger, and the die-off is amplifying my issues.

Just have ordered undecylenic acid, triphala, Atrantil and squalamine and I'm determined to finish this pathogen.

This could also explain my bad reaction to thyroid supplement. It stimulated my immune system, my immune system attacked the pathogen, the die-off overloaded my liver and caused my teeth to decay.

Maybe activated charcoal could make the die-off more bearable?

Anyway, this is amazing and I'm so happy I'm finally making some progress

It sounds like quite a reaction. Methanogens can form biofilms, so maybe you are discovering what has been hiding...

How much ginger and coconut oil, and how do you use them?

I am no expert, but if things get too tough, maybe slow down a little? It seems that methane sibo needs long time to correct, we are talking about 6-12 months, so rushing is not going to help (saying that, I do rush myself when it comes to issues like that).

Binders might help, trying them could be an option. I find that clays/zeolites help much more with certain issues, and it confirms some reports that they bind very well to mycotoxins.

And its not just one single threat really, whole gut terrain changes when methanogen dominance increases. It becomes kind of “bad”, with lots of byproducts such and indoles, acetaldehyde, etc. And it needs to get back to a more “normal”, “healthy” one. Which means many strains going up, many down - lots of potential reactions to look forward to. Or not:)

I have an impression that candida and HSV are important part of methane dominated gut. There was a research on symbiotic coexistence mechanisms of candida albicans and herpes, however their relation to methanogens is just a speculation from my side based on anecdotal reports and symptoms analysis.

 

[Sergey]

This is post is super-informative and incredibly helpful. I'm taking notes.

Suddenly a lot of my health issues makes sense. Thank you very much for sharing this!

Which of the natural (or non-pharmaceutical) remedies would you say are most helpful / powerful / effective? Where should I start with the treatment?

Oh I didn’t see this post.
I mentioned most things in the original reply. They should help.
Few things kill methanogens directly (unless you want to try neomycin, which I wouldn't).
indirectly, they can be suppressed by many spices and statin-like substances - ouster mushrooms, res yeast rice, there were more, I will look them up.
interesting thing in all this is probiotics. It seems that can be used selectively and very carefully. While some can be beneficial, many can make matters worse (probably due to supplying much needed hydrogen to archea). Atrantil, for example, absorbs hydrogen to weaken the archaea.
Some other herbs seem to help as well, I will look it up.

Ping me if I don’t come back in a few days:)

If you reaction to ginger/coconut does not subside, maybe try low carb/fasting for a day or two? Just to see if it changes something, who knows. There is unfortunately almost no research on treating this, so self experimentation is very important. Year and a half ago I did two days fast and it revealed a lot.

 

[Peatful]

It sounds like quite a reaction. Methanogens can form biofilms, so maybe you are discovering what has been hiding...

How much ginger and coconut oil, and how do you use them?

I am no expert, but if things get too tough, maybe slow down a little? It seems that methane sibo needs long time to correct, we are talking about 6-12 months, so rushing is not going to help (saying that, I do rush myself when it comes to issues like that).

Binders might help, trying them could be an option. I find that clays/zeolites help much more with certain issues, and it confirms some reports that they bind very well to mycotoxins.

And its not just one single threat really, whole gut terrain changes when methanogen dominance increases. It becomes kind of “bad”, with lots of byproducts such and indoles, acetaldehyde, etc. And it needs to get back to a more “normal”, “healthy” one. Which means many strains going up, many down - lots of potential reactions to look forward to. Or not:)

I have an impression that candida and HSV are important part of methane dominated gut. There was a research on symbiotic coexistence mechanisms of candida albicans and herpes, however their relation to methanogens is just a speculation from my side based on anecdotal reports and symptoms analysis.

What is your experience; or general opinion with using phages? Ie: Floraphage or Florassist.

 

[Sergey]

With regards to candida and methanogens, there seem to be a correlation,

What is your experience; or general opinion with using phages? Ie: Floraphage or Florassist.

I did use phages, not only those, but also more wide spectrum phages complexes still produced and sold in Russia.
I did feel strong effect after strep phages and strep has been known issue here.
However that course of phages did not change much long term for me. Phages are specific and only affect certain bacterial strains, those would quickly die, but what takes their place? Most of gut microbiome is poorly understood and studied, so no phages are available for majority of species. And we don't know what would "good species" be, really. Some say Akkermansia is good, but no, its very bad, no wait, it is good, etc. Wiping out all the flora also does not seem like an option, gut will be colonized, if not by bacteria, then by fungi, or by archaea. And some archaea is so difficult to eradicate that keeping some "healthy" number of "good" bugs which in turn keep an eye on archaea doesn't seem such a bad idea to me.
It seems that when it comes to the gut the whole terrain has to shift in order for it to change. Diet, EMFs, light, sun, grounding, emotions, all the "boring" stuff. Eradiation of one particular species does not seem to achieve much unless situation is out of control, like serious infection etc.

 

[Peatful]

With regards to candida and methanogens, there seem to be a correlation,

I did use phages, not only those, but also more wide spectrum phages complexes still produced and sold in Russia.
I did feel strong effect after strep phages and strep has been known issue here.
However that course of phages did not change much long term for me. Phages are specific and only affect certain bacterial strains, those would quickly die, but what takes their place? Most of gut microbiome is poorly understood and studied, so no phages are available for majority of species. And we don't know what would "good species" be, really. Some say Akkermansia is good, but no, its very bad, no wait, it is good, etc. Wiping out all the flora also does not seem like an option, gut will be colonized, if not by bacteria, then by fungi, or by archaea. And some archaea is so difficult to eradicate that keeping some "healthy" number of "good" bugs which in turn keep an eye on archaea doesn't seem such a bad idea to me.
It seems that when it comes to the gut the whole terrain has to shift in order for it to change. Diet, EMFs, light, sun, grounding, emotions, all the "boring" stuff. Eradiation of one particular species does not seem to achieve much unless situation is out of control, like serious infection etc.

Excellent.
Thank you for your thorough response.

 

[Vins7]

Hey @BearWithMe Have you had some improvements?

 

[BearWithMe]

Hey @BearWithMe Have you had some improvements?

Oh yes, absolutely. I almost don't have any endotoxin problems anymore

 

[Motif]

Oh yes, absolutely. I almost don't have any endotoxin problems anymore

How long til it stopped aNd what were you doing exactly ?
What about the hair loss ?

 

[Digital Samurai]

Oh yes, absolutely. I almost don't have any endotoxin problems anymore

What was the solution?
(a lot of us still struggling with this one)

 

[BearWithMe]

There is no single magic bullet solution, but what worked the most for me was ultra low fiber diet (under ~2-3g a day) and speeding up my transit time.

The changes did not happened overnight, I was doing it for many weeks very consistently before I got any results.