Strong Endotoxin Symptoms Despite Eating Clean And Peaty

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I think we can easily forget about certain herbs and spices like ginger and garlic and onion that help digestion when hardcore peating
Onions make me terribly bloated.
 
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Vins7

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Bone broth, glutamine, aloe vera, turmeric, copper, etc., can all improve it.

Thank you Hans.

And, in general terms of nutrition, what foods I should eat and what avoid?
Avoid most starch and base my carbohydrate sources on sugars from fruit juice, milk, honey, fruit and sugar?
Avoid muscle meat and eat liver, cheese, eggs, collagen and shelfish?
Sorry all this Ray Peat lifestyle and thyroid,endotoxines are new for me although I have suffering these issues for a long time since I began being sedentary, stressed and I had a surgery for appendicitis.
Thank you, this forum is really inspiring for me.
 

dreamcatcher

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Bone broth, glutamine, aloe vera, turmeric, copper, etc., can all improve it.
I usually add half a tsp of turmeric into my hot milk and really like the taste. Turmeric also helps with liver function and it reduces inflammation.
 

Hans

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Thank you Hans.

And, in general terms of nutrition, what foods I should eat and what avoid?
Avoid most starch and base my carbohydrate sources on sugars from fruit juice, milk, honey, fruit and sugar?
Avoid muscle meat and eat liver, cheese, eggs, collagen and shelfish?
Sorry all this Ray Peat lifestyle and thyroid,endotoxines are new for me although I have suffering these issues for a long time since I began being sedentary, stressed and I had a surgery for appendicitis.
Thank you, this forum is really inspiring for me.
Staying away from inflammatory foods, foods high in histamine, hard to digest, got lots of resistant starches or lots of roughage like raw salads.

You don't have to quit with meat if you do well on it, however some people tend to do better on white meat vs red meat because the red meat is harder to digest.
 
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BearWithMe

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I think we can easily forget about certain herbs and spices like ginger and garlic and onion that help digestion when hardcore peating
Raw ginger helped me tremendously in the past, but now it irritate my stomach and cause intense nausea :(
 
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BearWithMe

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Endotoxin decreases when loading up on saturated fats.

Your gut biome will fix itself within ~5 days of sticking to a solid carnivore diet. Don’t drink calories besides water for now, milk later.
Yes, I think I was deficient in saturated fats in the past because of my low fat diet. I'm trying to eat as much sat fats as my poor digestion allows.
 

stackz07

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Any fruit juice is going to pass by the stomach and liver way too quick and go down to ferment in the gut and feed bad bacteria.

same goes for any liquid food that isn’t milk or water. Protein shakes have been shown to disrupt the biome in a bad way.

Drinking calories is probably among the worst behaviors that this convenience driven society has issued. Prep your meals folks, or sip on milk/water through the day and eat once a day for dinner.

Isn't this pretty anti-peat in general though?
 
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I think this is becoming more apparent for me as well. Whole Foods OJ I believe is the culprit, I'm going off it today, will report back in a few weeks.

OP - have you tried Lidocaine yet?
I feel better when I drink freshly squeezed OJ, but it is cost-prohibitive. I prefer cheap OJ from concentrate than eating other fruits, though. Haven't tried lidocaine yet, would you share your source? Possible to buy it online?
 
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maybe try ncrease salt intake by a lot. even if that means eating way more starch to add salt to. That helped me a lot personally
Eating salty foods triggers unbearable nausea for me, so I have almost eliminated it from my diet. Sodium deficiency is probably making my condition much worse, but I just can't handle the salt (or any other form of sodium) :( I'm getting a little from the cheese but it is far from enough...
 
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What symptoms do you get exactly?
If it's mostly bloating then you might not have enough stomach acid or digestive enzymes. Are you drinking the OJ with the protein? Seperating them could be a good experiment as the juice would dilute stomach acid and cause indigestion. Perhaps your body is struggling with curds. Do you react the same way too all types of protein?

Lastly, if you have a leaky gut anything could cause endotoxin symptoms
Thank you for all your posts, Hans! Your posts and your article about cortisol, where you touch on the leaky gut a bit, are incredibly helpful and much appreciated!

Bloating, nausea and poor digestion are the most prominent symptoms, but also brain fog and troubles concentrating, depression, fatigue, excessive mucus everywhere in the body, flushing, dry mouth, dry skin, various aches all over the body, water retention...

My body is definitely struggling with curds! Any food, that have curd-like consistency, will cause intense nausea and will lay in my stomach for ages. Is that a symptom of low stomach acid?

I suspect low stomach acid for a long time, but anything that should increase stomach acid is causing me unbearable and immediate flare-up of my symptoms.

I think I'm digesting whey protein the best and casein the worst, with egg and meat proteins somewhere inbetween.

EDIT: The worst symptom after years of struggling with this is the liver damage :(
 
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Isn't this pretty anti-peat in general though?

well I don’t know. It’s pretty well established that carbs increase serotonin, both starch and simple sugars. Protein and B6 increase dopamine. Salt is very useful to offset adrenaline - dopamine is needed for serotonin.

Peat seems to support a higher dopamine way of living and certainly isn’t fond of serotonin. Drinking a lot of orange juice might be peaty but it can’t be done without eating a solid amount of salty, fatty, pro dopamine source of protein.

I’ve got nothing against (whole) milk though ;)
 

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Thank you for all your posts, Hans! Your posts and your article about cortisol, where you touch on the leaky gut a bit, are incredibly helpful and much appreciated!

Bloating, nausea and poor digestion are the most prominent symptoms, but also brain fog and troubles concentrating, depression, fatigue, excessive mucus everywhere in the body, flushing, dry mouth, dry skin, various aches all over the body, water retention...

My body is definitely struggling with curds! Any food, that have curd-like consistency, will cause intense nausea and will lay in my stomach for ages. Is that a symptom of low stomach acid?

I suspect low stomach acid for a long time, but anything that should increase stomach acid is causing me unbearable and immediate flare-up of my symptoms.

I think I'm digesting whey protein the best and casein the worst, with egg and meat proteins somewhere inbetween.

EDIT: The worst symptom after years of struggling with this is the liver damage :(
Sounds intense, probably a combination of endotoxin, histamine, estrogen and serotonin. But they're all connected anyway. What have you used for stomach acid before?
 

Hans

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It’s pretty well established that carbs increase serotonin, both starch and simple sugars
If eaten on their own yes, but if combined with enough protein, then the other amino acids offset that effect.

Free fatty acids also increase serotonin synthesis so a low carb diet is actually more serotonergic than a high carb diet because carbs also increase dopamine.
 
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If eaten on their own yes, but if combined with enough protein, then the other amino acids offset that effect.

Free fatty acids also increase serotonin synthesis so a low carb diet is actually more serotonergic than a high carb diet because carbs also increase dopamine.

well people often drink that orange juice on its own, don’t they? It’s useful to point out that protein should be had with every meal for dopamine.

I think you’ve got it wrong with low carb. Those diets are typically high protein diets. Yes fat increases serotonin but that will be offset. Besides, carbs increase it much more than fats do. It is far more common to find people eating pure glucose/fructose meals than pure fat, although some of those keto lunatics seem to enjoy drinking heavy cream lol.

The influence of meal composition on plasma serotonin and norepinephrine concentrations. - PubMed - NCBI
 

Gone Peating

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well people often drink that orange juice on its own, don’t they? It’s useful to point out that protein should be had with every meal for dopamine.

I think you’ve got it wrong with low carb. Those diets are typically high protein diets. Yes fat increases serotonin but that will be offset. Besides, carbs increase it much more than fats do. It is far more common to find people eating pure glucose/fructose meals than pure fat, although some of those keto lunatics seem to enjoy drinking heavy cream lol.

The influence of meal composition on plasma serotonin and norepinephrine concentrations. - PubMed - NCBI

I think fruit on its own is a great snack and doesn’t raise serotonin significantly
 
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Sounds intense, probably a combination of endotoxin, histamine, estrogen and serotonin. But they're all connected anyway. What have you used for stomach acid before?
Stuff that I have tolerated quite well: Betaine HCL (not peaty), caffeine, niacinamide, manganese, folate, digestive enzymes
Stuff that I have not tolerated: Salt, glycine, thiamine, ACV, iron, ginger, d-limonene, herbal prokinetics (iberogast), pharmaceutical prokinetics, NDT, choline

Probably forgot something :):
 

Hans

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well people often drink that orange juice on its own, don’t they? It’s useful to point out that protein should be had with every meal for dopamine.
I think protein in important, but not necessary with each meal/snack. There are still plenty amino acids in the blood a couple hours after eating protein (depending on the source ofc).
I think you’ve got it wrong with low carb. Those diets are typically high protein diets. Yes fat increases serotonin but that will be offset. Besides, carbs increase it much more than fats do. It is far more common to find people eating pure glucose/fructose meals than pure fat, although some of those keto lunatics seem to enjoy drinking heavy cream lol
Insulin and leptin lower foxO1 which inhibits tyrosine hydroxylase so a high carb diet will lead to high dopamine over time as it increases both insulin and leptin.
What I meant with fats increase serotonin is this.
Exercise, serum free tryptophan, and central fatigue. - PubMed - NCBI
The rise in brain TRP is reputed to result from exercise-induced elevations in serum nonesterified fatty acid (NEFA) concentrations, which dissociate TRP from albumin in blood and increase the serum free TRP pool.

Lastly, the study you linked tested platelet serotonin and dopamine which is not the same as brain serotonin or dopamine. There is no way to directly test for brain serotonin or dopamine in humans without killing then and dissecting their brains. You can test for metabolite but that doesn't show you actual neurotransmitter levels.
 

Hans

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Stuff that I have tolerated quite well: Betaine HCL (not peaty), caffeine, niacinamide, manganese, folate, digestive enzymes
Stuff that I have not tolerated: Salt, glycine, thiamine, ACV, iron, ginger, d-limonene, herbal prokinetics (iberogast), pharmaceutical prokinetics, NDT, choline

Probably forgot something :):
Interesting. Have you tested your thyroid and homocysteine?
Do the betaine and digestive enzymes remove the problems mostly, or only mildly? Have you played around with the dose?
 
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Interesting. Have you tested your thyroid and homocysteine?
Do the betaine and digestive enzymes remove the problems mostly, or only mildly? Have you played around with the dose?
Yes, T3+T4 and TSH are always borderline low, homocysteine borderline high (14.7 umol/l, reference range of my lab is 8-15).
Betaine and digestive enzymes helps a little, nothing significant, and the effect wear off over time. I'm using 3250mg of betaine with protein heavy meals at the moment.
 

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