Stretch Creates ATP

Parsifal

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Does anyone here know Scott Sonnon (especially Intu-flow and Ageless Mobility)? He is quite interesting, he has studied a lot of different martial arts (from China, India, Russia, Persia) and has studied with Russian physiologists (I know that he is aware of Buteyko for his Performance Breathing techniques, he talks about it in his Body Flow book). In his book on Prasara Yoga, he says that static stretching is bad and traumatic for muscles and creates scar tissue if I remember well.
 

XPlus

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Yeah, that pretty much my point. Capitalism has done more than any other economic system, ever, to lift more people out of poverty. I find it odd that so many people bash it and don't take an equally generous look at the systemic atrocities perpetrated under whatever their pet economic system happens to be. The bad apples find a way to corrupt *everything*, without fail.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with private entrepreneurship. It's the extremely greedy who makes it unappealing at large. There happens to be more of them today - more digressive and more equipped than ever to gain at the expense of anything that matters to others.
Things like sustainability and social values: justice, homogeneity, freedom, privacy. These matter more than the economy.
 
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Oniyogini

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I think stretching releases serotonin when it's quick and excessive. Probably by damaging the tissue.
agreed.

Also, from personal experience, how I breathe/hold breath during movement into/out of a 'stretch'- is this the new word for a yoga move?-defines the state of activity i.e.: serotonin release or create ATP...I am rooting for the ATP here! but how would I know for sure?
attention on the breath or distraction from it is the determining point, no?
I am still a novice after 32 years of practice, still discovering stuff every time..:)
 
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Amazoniac

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That's like the guy RP knew who put his hand on his nose when he was thinking...
When I first heard him mention this, I had the image of ET, and the guy touching the tip of his nose with a finger like that every time he wanted to think. No joke. But in his defense, it was probably something subtle. We do it often without real and izing, sometimes through a disguised scratching (I think the title of the thread influenced the word choice).
 

RealNeat

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Naudi from Functional Patters emphasizes myofascial release (MFR) before stretching. The reasoning he gives in short is without breaking up adhesions its like trying to stretch a rubber band with a knot in it. Here's an example of using the "sling" for stretching, Im guessing he would still preface this with MFR. Im not sold on everything FP but theres good info.

 

Simatta

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Just like Ray Peat said, stretch causes time and strength-dependent rise of the ATP concentration in media.

http://www.jbc.org/content/273/11/6334.full.pdf


The organism is a multi-way system. A muscle cell can use ATP to cause a contraction, and it can use a stretch to create ATP. The stretching and pulling as well as the ATP are a structural part of the essence of the cell, they aren't just fuel and effect.

When the cell runs out of energy, it takes on a shrunken, contracted form, which on a large scale looks like a cramped muscle. The normal state of the cell is energized and ready to contract if needs be, but not contracted. It can do it if it needs to do it. Its normal state is instead much more relaxed.

If it is asked to contract more than its energetic potential permits, it not only cannot return to the relaxed state (it isn't that it needs the energy to return there, the issue is that energy is an integral part of that energized state and you can't be in that state without the energy that is part of it), but takes on a disorganized, spastic contracted state which will turn out to be anything from a cramped muscle to an epileptic seizure.

Stretching will provide a form of energy that will take on the shape of order in the cell, like the gluten in dough when you stretch it, and atoms in the steel when you fold it. The ATP molecule is just a tool to store even more of this energy. Physical changes in the shape of ATP can provide twice the energy than the more well known chemical breakdown of ATP.



When your muscle is cramping, it has been asked to do something that it has not enough energy to do.

When you stretch the muscle, you are basically having all the other muscles chip in a little bit of their ATP to pull the cramped muscle out of spasm. It is a system of redistribution of energy that works through outside channels, it has to go through your conscious decision to stretch and it has to go through the outside of your body, for example from your arm to your cramped leg when you go to push against it during the stretching exercise. It operates on a higher level than the normal internal ways in which a muscle re-energizes itself.

This external redistribution strategy can be seen in any kind of system, from government protection of a person's welfare, to medical antibiotic intervention on a person who has an infection, to the immune system taking over in a part of the skin where the mechanical barrier has become insufficient to keep out bacteria.

Wherever a "game" environment falls out of balance, it will become advantageous to rebalance it using the least amount of energy by getting ahead of the game, that is by playing a larger game with a wider set of rules of which the inferior game's rules are just a subset. This happens because of the second law of thermodynamics, and it is the reason why in all matter and energy there is a creative stimulus, especially so in the parts that we say are "living things".
This is a great post. I shared this with some manual therapist comrades of mine recently. Thanks for sharing!
 

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