Strange case on aspirin

CreakyJoints

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Mar 30, 2020
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304
At that moment I started to feel really well. I had a lot of energy and I could do my strength training easily and enjoying it a lot. The only thing that I have been taking was aspirin, so I know it has been due to the large dose of it.

I didn't say it, but after the late afternoon workout, and then having taken the total of 10 grams, I started getting this high pitched, very mild-constant sound in my head. Tinnitus-like, that I've never had before. The next morning it faded.

I am intrigued because at such doses I don't get any severe blood thinning effects. But I had to get very close to the 10g per day to notice the effect I was looking for. It was short-lived though.

Aspirin's ototoxicity is well-established, there are lots of studies you can look at on PubMed. Usually, hearing problems caused by it will subside immediately with cessation of aspirin - but taking those doses regularly seem unnecessarily high to me. In theory the bicarbonate should help with the hearing issues if taken with aspirin, I think there are a couple of studies which suggest this, but I can't remember which - sorry. There are a few threads here discussing it which you might be able to find if you look around.

I am not sure how one is supposed to feel the blood thinning. I've been hospitalised multiple times and been given intravenous blood thinners before and the only thing I think I noticed was being able to physically see my pulse distorting my vision. I've never felt such a sensation from aspirin and if you are chasing a particular feeling from it I would caution you against looking for something which you might not ever find. I do, however, notice that even a small cut will bleed for significantly longer when I have it than if I do not. I'm absolutely not recommending you hurt yourself deliberately to see for yourself.

I've been trying lots of things, but no one ever seems to be enough.

I have started thinking that it could be a problem rooted in the core of any organism: the mitochondria. Energy production. Because I have been centered for years on the neurochemical aspect, but it has'nt been enough either.

That is why yesterday night I decided to start taking methylene blue as well. For now 20mg per day.

I think it is not a good idea to expect miraculous results from any single intervention and find yourself pleasantly surprised if it ever happens. To be honest, your dose of methylene blue also seems high to me, those are numbers I would associate with trying to ameliorate radiation damage. I think that substance is very dose dependent: sometimes a very small amount is more pronounced than a large amount. I believe I started with something like 0.5mg a day transdermally before eventually taking it orally, then eventually increasing the dose. I've taken much bigger doses when I've been concerned about radiation issues. Your mileage may vary, of course, and you may get excellent results on the amount you're taking, but I think Ray Peat often recommends taking a tiny amount of anything at first to test tolerance, then working one's way up.
 
OP
Guille Yacante
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Patagonia, Argentina
Thank you very much @CreakyJoints.

I am never taking 10g of aspirin again, that's for sure.

I have gone aggresively trying to fix the issue this week. I've taken large doses of sodium bicarbonate (about three spoonfuls for two days), and for two days as well I took about 120mg of methylene blue each day. I had to discard that thing with MB. Went overly serotonergic I think.

I am very confused sincerely, because I don't know what this is about. I feel very short on energy and rigid emotionally. Kind of autistic in that aspect. It's quite impossible for me to socialize fluently. I've taken cyproheptadine as well after quitting methylene blue (about 4/6g of cypro). It seems to do well but not enough.

I also practice intermittent fasting (8hs for eating / 16hs for fasting), consume a lot of calories, and do strenght training. One thing that got my attention is that my problem almost always sets in after a training session (brain inflammation, difficulty to coordinate movements, and getting irritable). Could this be a sign of a leaky gut?

I am kinda approaching this problem with a machine-gun of theories and things to try, until I solve it. I appreciate any good input like the one @CreakyJoints shared.
 

CreakyJoints

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Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
304
Thank you very much @CreakyJoints.

I am never taking 10g of aspirin again, that's for sure.

I have gone aggresively trying to fix the issue this week. I've taken large doses of sodium bicarbonate (about three spoonfuls for two days), and for two days as well I took about 120mg of methylene blue each day. I had to discard that thing with MB. Went overly serotonergic I think.

I am very confused sincerely, because I don't know what this is about. I feel very short on energy and rigid emotionally. Kind of autistic in that aspect. It's quite impossible for me to socialize fluently. I've taken cyproheptadine as well after quitting methylene blue (about 4/6g of cypro). It seems to do well but not enough.

I also practice intermittent fasting (8hs for eating / 16hs for fasting), consume a lot of calories, and do strenght training. One thing that got my attention is that my problem almost always sets in after a training session (brain inflammation, difficulty to coordinate movements, and getting irritable). Could this be a sign of a leaky gut?

I am kinda approaching this problem with a machine-gun of theories and things to try, until I solve it. I appreciate any good input like the one @CreakyJoints shared.

You're very welcome, I hope my perspective helps, but I am sorry I could not be more informative by posting specific studies for you. They are relatively easy to find.

120mg a day for methylene blue is extremely high, I think: again, these are radiation damage ranges from what I understand. Why did you multiply your original dose by 6 in such a short space of time? That's almost half a bottle of methylene blue from the supplier I use. How are you even taking it? I think less can be more with that one, and I've noticed very pronounced effects at 0.05mg (which is to say 0.5mg topically) and 0.5mg. Why are you taking it, come to think of it, and why so much sodium bicarbonate?

For cyproheptadine, you must mean mg rather than g, no? Otherwise you would be consuming ~33 entire packs of Periactin a day. 4mg is already far too much for me (and many users here, I think), I can usually only handle 1mg or 2mg at a time. I've never actually even heard of someone having gram doses.

Is there a reason you are taking so much of each one? I'm not sure I've ever seen Ray Peat mention such large amounts being beneficial. I've seen some very outlandish recommendations on this forum, but even then I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone mention positive results with these kinds of numbers. Not to say it's impossible, just that I've never come across it before and I don't fully understand the rationale.

I would think it would be wise to keep blood glucose adequate if one is expending a lot of energy every day. I'm not sure what the benefits of intermittent fasting concurrently with strength training would be.

A good idea might be to check your hormonal profile, get some thyroid tests done, see where you are with that first; then maybe you can carefully devise a plan of action and a good method of gauging your own progress. It might also be wise to examine your diet - think about whether you are getting ample micronutrients from the foods you eat, and if there are any major imbalances there you need to address first before trying to add things. Consistency would probably also help if you can manage it; I'm not sure any of your problems will be resolved overnight, but if you notice a small improvement and stick with it, that's progress.
 
OP
Guille Yacante
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Patagonia, Argentina
I would think it would be wise to keep blood glucose adequate if one is expending a lot of energy every day.
You have just said it.

I have started right away consuming a decent amount of sugar (cane sugar), which I never do, and I have felt so much better.

I am going to keep doing it but like in short amounts during the day to avoid crashes.

I felt that this has been an energy problem, so maybe I am very close to the solution.
 
OP
Guille Yacante
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Messages
115
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Patagonia, Argentina
I think I have just connected all the dots.

It could be in essence a high serotonin problem. I am going to quote Ray Peat on this.

Article: [ Serotonin, depression, and aggression: The problem of brain energy ]

In Parkinson’s disease, the benefits seen from increasing the concentration of dopamine could result from dopamine’s antagonism to serotonin
- Serotonin is in essence an antagonist to dopamine.

Other movement disorders, including akathisia and chorea, can be produced by serotonin.
- Dopamine regulates and facilitates locomotion (movement). So, dysregulation of dopamine by excess serotonin can cause movement disorders.

Serotonin inhibits mitochondrial respiration. Excitoxic death of nerve cells involves both the limitation of energy production, and increased cellular activation. Serotonin has both of these actions.
- All said.

It causes vasoconstriction and vasospasm, and promotes clotting, when it’s released from platelets. Especially when it is released from mast cells, it is considered to be an inflammatory mediator, along with histamine. Edema, bronchoconstriction, immunosuppression, and joint swelling are produced by the release of serotonin from platelets or other cells.
- .

Serotonin tends to cause hypoglycemia
- "Serotonin activates glycolysis, forming lactic acid. Excess lactic acid tends to decrease efficient energy production by interfering with mitochondrial respiration." This is also a RP's quote.

What I have seen is that:

- I've benefited from high dose aspirin
- Cyproheptadine
- Simple sugar consumption

And in contrast, I've been battling against:

- Motor coordination problems (feeling my body rigid)
- Emotional rigidity as well
- Lack of energy
- Eventually the tendency to depression (even though I've been fighting as a warrior against it)

So, all this put together I understand that it could have been a high serotonin problem.

To solve it:

Primarily, reducing serotonin.
This through aspirin intake and cyproheptadine (keeping cypro in the 0.5/1.5mg range to avoid dopaminergic antagonism as well).
And as serotonin is lowered, increasing dopamine, which surely will improve my motor function and mood overall (with mucuna pruriens, caffeine, sunlight and moderate exercise).

What came to my attention was the positive effect I got from consuming simple sugars like refined cane sugar and honey. Maybe serotonin has kept me in a hypoglycemic state, in conjunction with high levels of stress hormones.

This is to be confirmed, but I share it to both be of help, and get some feedback along the way.

So far so good.
 

mamakitty

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Joined
Nov 1, 2021
Messages
516
Location
canada
Hi forum,

I wanted to share my latest experience with aspirin, which definetely has been very surprising to me, and has left me with a lot of questions.

I have been trying to solve some "symptoms" of mine with aspirin (mostly trying to antagonize serotonin), and I have come up to taking up to 10g of it yesterday. I have never done such a thing before, not even close.

But I did it because I have been taking previously to that approximately 3g doses for some days, with no ill effects, but no sufficient improvement either.

What intrigues me most is that I have never felt the blood thinning effect that I suppossedly should have had with those doses. I mean, the bad effect at such doses. And I don't take Vit. K supplements.

In fact, yesterday afternoon, when I had already taken about 8g I had one of my best workouts ever. I felt an easiness to breathe and "get the oxygen" to the cells, like a kind of effective breathing that I usually not feel, but the opposite. In fact, I felt as if my body had gone more alkaline. I usually feel acidic. These are my sensations.

As I said, these are my thoughts, but I share this to get from you guys some feedback. This is strange to me and I want to avoid both overdosing something, and not doing what is good for me even if - generally - it is not recommended.

Thank you.
How does one feel acidic or alkaline?
 

GreenTrails

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
169
Aspirin's ototoxicity is well-established, there are lots of studies you can look at on PubMed. Usually, hearing problems caused by it will subside immediately with cessation of aspirin - but taking those doses regularly seem unnecessarily high to me. In theory the bicarbonate should help with the hearing issues if taken with aspirin, I think there are a couple of studies which suggest this, but I can't remember which - sorry. There are a few threads here discussing it which you might be able to find if you look around.

I am not sure how one is supposed to feel the blood thinning. I've been hospitalised multiple times and been given intravenous blood thinners before and the only thing I think I noticed was being able to physically see my pulse distorting my vision. I've never felt such a sensation from aspirin and if you are chasing a particular feeling from it I would caution you against looking for something which you might not ever find. I do, however, notice that even a small cut will bleed for significantly longer when I have it than if I do not. I'm absolutely not recommending you hurt yourself deliberately to see for yourself.



I think it is not a good idea to expect miraculous results from any single intervention and find yourself pleasantly surprised if it ever happens. To be honest, your dose of methylene blue also seems high to me, those are numbers I would associate with trying to ameliorate radiation damage. I think that substance is very dose dependent: sometimes a very small amount is more pronounced than a large amount. I believe I started with something like 0.5mg a day transdermally before eventually taking it orally, then eventually increasing the dose. I've taken much bigger doses when I've been concerned about radiation issues. Your mileage may vary, of course, and you may get excellent results on the amount you're taking, but I think Ray Peat often recommends taking a tiny amount of anything at first to test tolerance, then working one's way up.
I agree with Creaky Joints; good information.
 

mamakitty

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2021
Messages
516
Location
canada
There is an answer to that, but you don't deserve it for taking cheap shots.
That was a ridiculously retarded reply, dude. What cheap shots? I genuinely wanted to know how does one feel acidic or alkaline. It seems like the health advice here needs more work if you are not even willing to help a fellow human by giving a simple answer.
 

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