Strange argument against Buteyko

[Richiebogie]

As Ray Peat has pointed out, modern medicine can be slow to adopt new treatments.

However the following argument against Buteyko seemed particularly weak:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buteyko_method

An expert guideline by the Global Initiative for Asthma (GINA) noted that results from one study suggested that improvement in symptoms by breathing exercises may be due to causes other than changes in the underlying physiology of the disease, such as relaxation, voluntary reduction in medication use and increased participation of the patient in their own care. This result suggests patients who experience anxiety or who overuse their rescue inhalers in particular may benefit from any breathing techniques as an adjunct to conventional treatments, [highlight=yellow]though cost of using these techniques may be prohibitive[/highlight].

My cousin had dreadful asthma in the 80's and then attended a talk or 2 on the Buteyko method in regional Victoria, Australia. That ended his asthma.

I have had asthma on and off throughout my life. I was getting it regularly at night earlier this year. Then after hearing Ray Peat mention Buteyko and CO2 levels I watched a youtube clip on his method which had an Australian narrator. Now when I feel any onset of wheezing I remember to slow my breathing and it disappears!

Perhaps above GINA are talking about the cost of losing returning patients and pharmaceutical sales, rather than the cost of brown paper bags?

 

[tara]

I'm always interested in hearing people's experiences with Buteyko method - cool to read this works so well for you both.
For those who can learn it adquately from a youtube clip or a couple of lectures, it's probably very cost-effective.
For people who need many sessions one-to-one with an expert coach, I expect medicine is cheaper, at least in the short term.
Just like it's cheaper to prescribe anti-depressants than extensive counselling.
You and your cousin may have been lucky ones to be able to get enough from it so quickly.
For some people, other changes than just reduced breathing exercises may be needed - eg attending to minerals, posture, etc.

 

[Richiebogie]

Hi Tara.

Yes, you are right that wheezing is a symptom which could have multiple causes and require multiple treatments.

I had probably dropped peanuts, almonds and Thai takeaway cashew beef stirfry with canola oil around the same time as I focused on my breathing, so that may have helped too!

Also we cannot rule out the power of suggestion / hypnosis / faith / placebo to both cause an illness and cure it!

Still, here is an interesting study finding that asthma drug treatments can lead to inflammation and... asthma!

www.buteyko.info/critical_research_buteyko.asp?crid=21

 

[tara]

Yeah, I do think Buteyko method seems like a really good idea to try against asthma (and many things hyperventilation-related).
I have a child with mild asthma, and we can sometimes stop an episode by me coaching him to do a few short breath holds. I don't like the drugs, but will use them when we can't get it down fairly quickly without.

I bribed him to tape his mouth shut at night for a couple of weeks at one stage. I had a go at practicing steps with him a few times. Also sometimes time him breath holding in the bath. I've been too stretched to persevere with him on any of these enough, and he's not motivated himself.

I expect faith and placebo may partly work via calmed breathing. :)

 

[Richiebogie]

Taping the mouth sounds exotic! I guess it is like when I used to have a full mouth orthodontic plate!

Another thing I have tried before going to sleep or early in the morning is to put the bedsheet over my head but lift it slightly to form a tent like space - like a giant paper bag.

I can read Ray Peat articles on my smart phone, learn about pathological science and gradually increase my CO2 levels - all at once!

 

[Such_Saturation]

Don't they say that sleeping with head covered increases dementia?

 

[tara]

post 100091 Don't they say that sleeping with head covered increases dementia?

Says who?
Is that one of those "associations" between hat wearing and dementia?

 

[tara]

post 100077 Taping the mouth sounds exotic!

For anyone with night-time mouth breathing habits, I strongly recommend trying it. For any one else it probably makes no difference. I only need it when I get a cold now.

post 100077 Another thing I have tried before going to sleep or early in the morning is to put the bedsheet over my head but lift it slightly to form a tent like space - like a giant paper bag.

This sometimes works well for me too.

 

[Such_Saturation]

https://sites.google.com/site/rebreathi ... ey-results

 

[Giraffe]

post 100261 https://sites.google.com/site/rebreathi ... ey-results

Sounds wise to cover the head when you feel cold in bed.

 

[Parsifal]

Sounds wise to cover the head when you feel cold in bed.

Or you can grow you hair (even if you're a male) to never be cold

 

[tara]

post 100261 https://sites.google.com/site/rebreathi ... ey-results

Association not equal to causation.
No confounders are discussed.
People with lower metabolism may be more drawn to cover their heads partially or fully to keep warm and/or to improve CO2 levels. Maybe those who covered their heads did so because they slept in an environment that was too cold for them, and that caused related stresses.
A not insignificant number of old people can't afford to keep warm, and often suffer various health issues related to this.
The conclusions drawn seem too strong for the data presented.

post 100267 Or you can grow you hair (even if you're a male) to never be cold

Lucky you, to have always lived somewhere where hair was enough to keep warm.

 

[Such_Saturation]

post 100091 Don't they say that sleeping with head covered increases dementia?

 

[Parsifal]

post 100428

post 100091 Don't they say that sleeping with head covered increases dementia?

Who say that?

 

[Such_Saturation]

The guy from the questionnaire?