Stopping The Aging Process

[Milklove]

I was wondering if it were possible to stop the aging process completely. I you have a good metabolism, you should have enough regenerative energy to stop the process, right?

 

[pboy]

theres a difference between aging and losing health. The system both physically mentally and youthfully tends to put people on a subtle downhill of their health, so that aspect seems correlated with how many times the earth has circled the sun since you've been alive. The process of physical health and mental health going down is really just a matter of losing joy and confidence in your ability to accomplish the next better goal...because people assume physical and mental degeneration is inevitable and happens at certain ages to everyone, when something starts going wrong they just assume its 'aging', but like all things in life, its just a challenge that needs to be overcome...but since people assume its just a part of life, they don't attempt to look into it deeper or do anything about it. Slowly they accept a point of view that they have degenerated and lost hope that they can continue to do great things, pursue exhilarating moments, and with that the joy to even be alive starts becoming boring

 

[Milklove]

I agree with that. Old age doesn't necessarily correlate with bad health if you manage to keep a very positive and joyful outlook on life.

This would also mean that if an old and unhealthy person finds a new pursuit in their life, which they really enjoy doing, they could become biologically younger.

 

[j.]

X-Rays supposedly accelerate aging. Ray said the damage is more or less permanent in one of his articles.

 

[pboy]

I don't believe in permanent damage, and if someone does, its because they are inflexible...and might require an external source of energy or another example from someone else to help them see things different. Everything that we do in life, someone had to be the first to figure it out and take a risk perhaps, and was courageous to do it regardless of what view other people had. Ive come to realize that probably 99.99% of people are only capable of mimicking or doing something after they've seen someone else do it first so they feel safe or whatever. A rare person tries something on intuition and wit and faith

I don't mean to deviate from the topic , but the truth is there are records in china of a man who lived to 170+ and many people claim to know people that have lived longer, and not only that...they stopped seeming to age past 50 or so..basically they mastered the daily routine to where they weren't hurting themselves every day, so it was perpetually the same. Who knows? Nothing is certain, people attempt to belittle peoples aspirations because then they don't feel bad about not trying themselves, or having to take responsibility for not being good enough to do it themselves or something of the like. Aging is arbitrary anyways, start doing what you want to do and what you don't want to regret that you didn't do later ASAP

 

[j.]

start doing what you want to do and what you don't want to regret that you didn't do later ASAP

I disagree, there is plenty of time. Existence is eternal and everything that exists will exist forever, so we have an unlimited amount of time to do anything we want, no need to hurry, only if we feel like it.

 

[narouz]

In an interview, when asked about this, Peat said he had not seen evidence of any kind of age-clock, life-clock, death-clock (my phraseology) etc--nothing showing that humans have a certain genetically determined lifespan.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Legend? There's quite a number of these people though, some with birth certificates.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Ching-Yuen

 

[Milklove]

Also very interesting:

They are advancing a myth about human nature, so I will advance a counter-myth. At the time people were growing their large brains they lived in the tropics. I suggest that in this time before the development of grain-based agriculture, they ate a diet that was relatively free of unsaturated fats and low in iron--based on tropical fruits. I suggest that the Boskop skull from Mt. Kilimanjaro was representative of people under those conditions, and that just by our present knowledge of the association of brain size with longevity, they--as various "Golden Age" myths claim--must have had a very long life-span. As people moved north and developed new ways of living, their consumption of unsaturated fats increased, their brain size decreased, and they aged rapidly. Neanderthal relics show that flaxseed was a staple of their diet. - Ray Peat

 

[Such_Saturation]

Actually they could just as well say our brains grew when we started eating omega-3 from the Indian coast.

 

[Suikerbuik]

To throw some wood on the fire. What about telomers? I know more experiments are certainly needed in practise. However in theory a certain strand in DNA replication will shorten a bit, leading to a finite number of replication cycli. An enzyme telomerase has high activity in fetal cells or in cancer cells, but activity is much lower in 'normal' cells.

In theory we should be able to beat aging to some extent, but I don't think people should strive for that goal. That means we have to overcome entropy and deal with all stressors that leave very little to no damage behind. This is an utopia I think, if you live your life you will aquire damage. And some stress is also needed for learning and development.

Though, the study is somewhat statistically questioned. You can start eating buckyballs (fullerene C60) and hope your lifespan will increase, it supposedly almost doubled the lifespan of rats researchers say. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0142961212003237

 

[Such_Saturation]

I am pretty sure that telomeres are dynamically shortened and lengthened to control cell generation flow. Ray Peat has also mentioned this.

 

[Milklove]

In theory we should be able to beat aging to some extent, but I don't think people should strive for that goal. That means we have to overcome entropy and deal with all stressors that leave very little to no damage behind. This is an utopia I think, if you live your life you will aquire damage. And some stress is also needed for learning and development.
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Ray Peat has also a problem with how most people understand entropy. He said that in a maturing organism entropy continuously decreases.

I believe that if we provide the right environment for the body,it has the ability to continuously heal itself. In an utopian world/ environment we would be able to completely regrow a limb.

 

[Suikerbuik]

Entropy decreasing in a maturing organism because of cell differentiation??

I am not sure how RP sees people understanding entropy? I don't see entropy as something general that in young age we tend to be more structurized (actually not and this is what you mean?). I think entropy can be overcome and recovered if you listen to your organism. With two factors involved energy and time. As long as we don't give it time to recover, and keep hurrying for every bus and train. Without giving the body time to recover, because we simply don't have time these days for something like that, entropy will be a factor. the same as we keep demanding or negatively influencing our metabolism.

That's something we not have an answer to. What is the right environment? Context related also. What if we don't have acces to high altitude or clean air? As long as there's oxygen there's damage and chance.

Naa.. animals regrowing limbs also die.

 

[Suikerbuik]

Maybe should explain what I said a bit to avoid a different interpretation.

As long as there's oxygen there's damage and chance

I mean, with oxygen we can live and survive, without there's no chance or opportunity, at least not for us. With oxygen we conquer time, with this fact our chances and possibilities of all kind of events occur. For example we are continuously producing ROS by the reduction of the oxygen, which provides us life, to water. Even if all environmental factors are optimal we will have damage from such factors to some extent.

In essence it comes down to the fact that nature isn't perfect itself and so won't we. But yeah in theory I can only completely agree with what has been said :).

Edit: My bad, still waiting for the post that will be free of mistakes.

 

[Milklove]

Entropy decreasing in a maturing organism because of cell differentiation??

I am not sure how RP sees people understanding entropy? I don't see entropy as something general that in young age we tend to be more structurized (actually not and this is what you mean?). I think entropy can be overcome and recovered if you listen to your organism. With two factors involved energy and time. As long as we don't give it time to recover, and keep hurrying for every bus and train. Without giving the body time to recover, because we simply don't have time these days for something like that, entropy will be a factor. the same as we keep demanding or negatively influencing our metabolism.

That's something we not have an answer to. What is the right environment? Context related also. What if we don't have acces to high altitude or clean air? As long as there's oxygen there's damage and chance.

Naa.. animals regrowing limbs also die.

Textbooks describe entropy as something that increases with time. Ray says, that this is true for insolated systems, but those are the exeption. A system (an organism being one) becomes more structured if it receives energy.

BTW,two really fascinating articles:
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/alzheimers.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/alzheimers2.shtml

 

[Suikerbuik]

Thanks for clarifying Milklove, I didn't mean that definition of entropy (The one being teached). I am still sure entropy can increase in age, certainly if we don't take proper care of ourselves. I think cancer can probably be a manifestation of increased entropy.

And thank you for referring those articles, I can never have enough of those. :)

 

[Milklove]

Thanks for clarifying Milklove, I didn't mean that definition of entropy (The one being teached). I am still sure entropy can increase in age, certainly if we don't take proper care of ourselves. I think cancer can probably be a manifestation of increased entropy.

And thank you for referring those articles, I can never have enough of those. :)

Oh, I did not mean that there is no way for the entropy to increase in age, but very much like you see it. (not providing enough energy = not taking proper care of oneself).

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think aging is the loss of the ability to keep the energy flow going in a manner which keeps our entropy lower than the environment.

The cancer in a way is a piece of you rebelling to a constantly damaged flow, taking in its hands the means of getting enough energy to do what nature asks of it, id est stabilizing its order.

This is the opposite of what happens when the energy is abundant, id est grouping with another stable organism to manage even larger achievements and closer adaptation to the surrounding fields.

We shall call this "evolution" by the way.

 

[haidut]

Legend? There's quite a number of these people though, some with birth certificates.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Ching-Yuen

I'll add one more. I found him based on Peat's writings about extreme longevity in Azerbaijan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirali_Muslimov