Stopping T3- Log

[Sagitarrius90]

Hey All,

I was taking 25-50 mcg t3 split hourly for about three months to help with my diet.

Stopping today - Cold turkey. I've read many views but I decided it'd be best to stop - I was doing a little over 25mcg a day for about a week before this stop. I want to shed water weight and I've noticed t3 increasing estrogen like symptoms a lot even after my diet.

Will keep you guys posted- Since it's a 1 day half life I expect to notice some hypo symptoms later on today- Keeping calories 20% below maintenance to help fat regain whilst keeping carbs really high very low fat and moderate protien

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Day 3 without any t3.

Face is pale but I dont feel overly hypo yet body temps are decent sleep is good still no crazy signs of shut down. Again I was taking 25-50mcg daily for about 4 months.

Discontinued because I was getting bad estro symptoms and high cortisol. Cortisol seems fine now and I feel like I have low estrogen since I managed to get my bodyfat down to around 12% from 20% pre diet.

Any point of taking 12.5mcg will that assist in my thyroid output or shut me down again? I think taking thyroid is for people in really bad health trying to mitigate damage am I right? What's the point of taking t3 when you're eventually going to rely on it can anyone chim in

Will keep you guys posted daily.

 

[Jessie]

Interesting, I have read before (I think from stop the thyroid madness) that both high AND low cortisol can make you feel like crap when taking thyroid medicine. I think it's a mistake when many people get tunnel vision about cortisol, and all they care about is lowering it.

It seems much more practical to me that cortsiol disregulation is the major problem, where in hypo people it tends to be too low in the morning, and too high in the afternoon. This is just my lay understanding of it.

Have you ever tried Cynoplus or NDT? Or have you only used isolated T3? From my understanding of what Ray recommends, he seems to believe desiccated thyroid is better for long term stabilization then just standalone T3.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Just tried monotherapy t3 because I was dieting and wasnt in it for the long term health aspects and my health was ok prior to supplementation I didnt want to be stuck taking thyroid meds but on a diet t3 levels fall and I was using it to keep the engine running so to speak

Months went by and I started getting hypo symptoms well not hypo but high estrogen high cortisol symptoms. I decided that now I'm done dieting no point of taking thyroid although after reading alot of stuff it seems that you can take a small amount of t3 and it will help boost you're thyroid without suppression although I dont know that amount and would love to know.

I think with me I had high cortisol from the diet and having t3 in my system just made me feel like I had cushings I just felt terrible.

So plan is i stopped dieting i stopped t3 and now that I'm at a good body fat level around 10-12% I want to know if taking a small amount of t3 would be okay for just health purposes or would that shut me down or inhibit my thyroid in any way.

So far 3 days without 25-50mcg t3 and I feel normal slight head aches but cortisol isnt high anymore. Keeping calories 10-15% below maintenance because I dont want fat regain with an impaired thyroid I'll let it recover then eat over maintnenace and again would love to know more about t3 helping natural production

 

[Jessie]

I have read before that anything over 3 grains of thyroid will shut down endogenous production. However, I'm not sure how this translates over to T3 by itself. I would think a small physiological dose, like 4 mcgs, wouldn't be enough to shut down endogenous production. Doing that three times a day would put you roughly in that 12.5mcg ballpark, so I think it would be fine. But perhaps someone else should chime in here, my personal experience with thyroid is lacking.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

From what I've read

Taking a nipple of t3 is good to add to natural production with no suppression

He mentions 4mcg per hour for supplementation which seems to be his view during the winter time whereas he says summertime most people dont need thyroid or can greatly reduce amounts

Seems like using t3 would be wise in the winter whereas summer a few mcgs per day can add to production without suppression.

I've scoured these forums and no one has mentioned a certain dose that would suppress nautal thyroid it's usually dont use thyroid or use it and stop but in my view you're just going to end up right where you started.

Read a log about someone using high dose t3 to fix his thyroid and it seems after reading it he ended up in the same position before with temps and hr so again ive gathered

1.) Dont use thyroid if healthy
2.) If you use it you can use up to maybe 12.5 mcg with 0 suppression
3.) Use thyroid cause you need it


Not on forum states at 25 mcg therell be no suppression and it's a good boost to natutal production. Wish there was studies everything on the forums is he said she said

 

[Sagitarrius90]

I have read before that anything over 3 grains of thyroid will shut down endogenous production. However, I'm not sure how this translates over to T3 by itself. I would think a small physiological dose, like 4 mcgs, wouldn't be enough to shut down endogenous production. Doing that three times a day would put you roughly in that 12.5mcg ballpark, so I think it would be fine. But perhaps someone else should chime in here, my personal experience with thyroid is lacking.

That's what I've gathered yet someone over in another forum said its pointless and can actually cause peripheral hypothyroidism you either use replacement or dont use it at all. Worst thing would to be using 12.5mcg thinking you're getting additional help yet you're suppressing natural thyroid seems risky. Nothing definitive on here but I'll be the first to say it helps 100% but buying t3 and staying on it when you dont really need it is a waste of money

 

[Jessie]

That's what I've gathered yet someone over in another forum said its pointless and can actually cause peripheral hypothyroidism you either use replacement or dont use it at all. Worst thing would to be using 12.5mcg thinking you're getting additional help yet you're suppressing natural thyroid seems risky. Nothing definitive on here but I'll be the first to say it helps 100% but buying t3 and staying on it when you dont really need it is a waste of money

Yeah makes sense. If someone is wanting a little extra "boost" without shutting down endogenous thyroid, it's probably best to take like 1/4 or 1/2 grain of cynoplus. Something like that would mimic the thyroid in traditional foods like fish head soup.​

 

[Sagitarrius90]

See I wonder if that would help me whilst recovering from possible suppression since I was using up to 50 mcg a day (nibbled hourly)

My logic right now is get off completely assess then perhaps delve in again albeit a dose of no more than 12.5 mcg just not sold that it cannot suppress. Someone on lyle mcdonalds bodybuilding forum mentioned 12mcg is useless because it could perhaps cause peripheral hypothyroidism. Again nothing worse then thinking you're helping yourself yet slowly ruining you're health.

So 2-4 weeks no thyroid then I'll do more research and see if I can nibble on small amounts when needed. Winter time I'll most likely jump back on since I have like 500 25mcg t3 pills lying around lol

 

[Jessie]

I seriously doubt it would cause a hypo state. The only time this would happen is when T3 is being converted into rT3. Perhaps the person misunderstood, and thought you meant taking the entire 12.5 at once, which actually could cause rT3 issues.

This is on the Ray Peat email wiki: "The body makes up to about 4 mcg of T3 in an hour, so each dose should be small, with food to delay absorption. Are you having orange juice and milk in your diet? Sometimes a B vitamin deficiency, especially B1, can cause the fog. A supplement of 10 mg. is often enough to improve focus and prevent fatigue. When you take T3 without food, it enters the blood stream very suddenly, and the liver is likely to detect an excessive amount, causing it to produce enzymes to eliminate it. The result can be a decrease in T3 for the rest of the day, especially at night if you took it in the morning"

So the liver seems to have a way to regulate T3 levels very efficiently. If you take too much (i.e more then 4mcgs an hour) it can result in decreased T3. I'm not sure about contextual nuances though, like, if this means only taking 4mcgs on a empty stomach. Or if this means only taking 4mcgs period, irrespective of food intake. So maybe you could get Ray to elaborate on this if you want some reassurances.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

So with the context of what hes saying you can take 4mcg hourly and it wouldn't suppress you could do 4mcg x 24 hours which is what 96 mcg... and it wouldn't suppress? See that's hard to believe. I've also read like using 4mcg every couple of hours can help assist thyroid production which makes more sense but again I haveny seen anyone on this board mention using it to boost their healthy thyroid it seems people use it because their not in good shape.

Ray may be right about the thyroid recovering quickly though it's been 3 days and I feel good maybe because the t3 levels have built up in my body I should expect to feel worse in the coming days well see I'll keep people posted

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Does anyone have Ray's email? I'd love to get his advice on this. He doesn't definitively say 4mcg per hour wont shut you down or suppress it's really up for interpretation

 

[Jessie]

No, but some of the other forum members have it. I'd ask for it over DM though, putting his personal email over a public thread may be risky.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Day 5

I feel normal tbh.... other than some insomnia which I dont think is caused by this it's been going on for quite some time, I feel normal good temps.

Any reason why i dont feel the suppression? Could the t3 actually have benefited my thyroid in any way?

 

[Sagitarrius90]

To add to my post above, I don't have any symptoms of suppression so maybe Peat was righ with the short amount of time it takes you're thyroid to bounce back OR taking t3 actually benefited me in a way where my temps and HR are normal- To be honest, my temps and HR are actually better now that I am off then when I was on (the tail end only, initial 4 months ago when I started temps and HR dipped then picked up about two months in then slowly declined)

No reason why I feel normal, again other than insomnia which is not related to this since it has been on-going for a few weeks now I feel good. Shocked.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Day 7 -- Now I am noticing signs of thyroid inhibition.... First couple of days felt normal but I think that was because I was lowering cortisol levels - Now that it's been a week I'm feeling the effects of lowered thyroid- feeling a bit cold in the feet, somewhat cold in mornings and my thoat is hurting- Keeping calories still 10-15% under my deemed maintenance to allow thyroid to come up to decent levels whilst limiting fat regain

Might consider going back on T3 since I know it really does have an accumulative effect- I was taking way too much- 25 mcg daily would be better for me in the future just scared to go back at it since I've spent all this time off - Feel calmer, more concentrated and relaxed with less estro symptoms but Poor sleep, social withdrawl (Might just be too high dopamine from my uridine+choline+metergoloine stack) Been reading heavily and I want to continue to further develop myself which I read on @Hans board at Men Elite that when you are really focused on developing yourself it's a sign of good dopamine levels - So maybe my thryoid isn't supressed maybe I'm just at normal levels now?

I don't want blood so sorry guys lol

Quick Update

Days
1-5 Didnt feel shut down really other than poor sleep
Day 6-7- Itchy throat, slightly inflammed thyroid (adams apple is a bit bigger) cold feet (could be from diet restriction) poor sleep still but highly motivated

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Over a week and there has been supression no doubt- I guess it was delayed due to the fact my t3 levels were high

when ray peat says that the thyroid bounces back I think he is referring to if you actually titrate thryoid up correctly rather than what I did which was take 50 mcg t3 daily for dieiting purposes.

Going cold turkey off thyroid was wrong and I have since yesterday introduced 25 mcg for 5 days to increase my t3 levels so I'm not hypo and I will titrate downwards to 12.5mcg for about 2 weeks

Most people agree that 2-5 weeks to receover from thyroid supression- the reasoning behind taking 25 mcg after quitting cold turkey is that even at that amount I'm still going to allow normal thyroid function to come back albeit slower than say if I went to 12.5 mcg but it was terrible to say the least- Mentally being hypo messes with you more than anything. So for anyone who pushes the throttle too much and shuts down their thyroid I HIGHLY recommend tapering


Week 1- 0 mcg (Scratch this starting over)
week 1 25 mcg
week 2-3 12.5mcg (At this point taking 4 mcg every 6 hours up to 12.5 in my view will still supress slightly but will allow me to bounce back
week 4 6.5 (At this point I fully expect to be back to normal but a week taking a small amount won't hurt

 

[mgrabs]

Hey how are you today?