Stone Age humans were Hypercarnivores

Sefton10

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This study had a bit of traction online in the UK media recently. A couple of friends sent it to me as justification for their carnivore/primal style diets.


I would be interested in peoples' retorts from a Peat perspective. The most obvious for me is the calcium:phosphorus ratio. I've heard Ray say previously they would have gotten calcium from bones and green leaves, but I find it hard to imagine they'd get enough to bring them into balance. Also the amino acid profile of a meat-based diet would seem disastrous for ageing/longevity, but maybe they didn't live long enough for that to become a concern? I know the 70% animal leaves room for fruits/honey etc in the other 30%, but overall this would still be a pretty high fat, highish protein, lowish carb diet, and dairy would have been pretty much non-existent.

This is the original paper: Error - Cookies Turned Off
 
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Such people love to use examples of the primitive past. I think Hunter & Gatherers only have an edge in colder climates but as soon as a tribe/society of primarily glucose eaters arrive, they usually submit quickly. Nomads (Milk), Farmers (Starch) or Fruits in the good climates. Not that it matters though.
 
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lampofred

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Why would you want to emulate Stone Age humans?
 

Hugh Johnson

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Animal‐sourced calories are generally acquired more efficiently; carnivores, therefore, spend less time feeding than similar‐sized herbivores (Shipman & Walker, 1989). For example, baboons (Papio cynocephalus) devote almost all their daylight hours to feeding (Milton, 1987, p. 103) while adult Ache and Hadza men spend only a third of the day in food acquisition, preparation, and feeding (Hawkes et al., 1997; Hill et al., 1985).
Ok, that's nice.

As to the actual subsistence ofthe Hadza, gathering is a very important aspect oftheir life in nutritional terms. Well over 80% of their diet consists of plant materials taken from the forest (Campbell 1995: 59). The task of gathering for overall group use falls upon women and children. They go out each day, no more than an hour or two from camp, and collect plant products at a leisurely pace, satisfying their own hunger first and bringing back the remainder to camp.

It is also important to note that Hadza men gather as well; they regularly go into the forest when hungry to find plant food to eat. However, this gathering is strictly related to their own personal satisfaction and they never gather for the group as do women and children (Woodburn 1968a). Hunting is the other important aspect ofHadza subsistence, and it benefits greatly from the large number of animals available. The Hadza hunt virtually every possible food animal in the area except the elephant (Campbell 1995). Their methods consist almost exclusively of bow and arrow hunting, often with poisoned tips. This role in their subsistence belongs exclusively to men. Leaving from the camp individually or in small groups, the hunters go into nearby areas stalking and shooting animals upon sight Much like women out foraging, men prepare their kill on the spot, satisfying their own hunger first (Woodburn 1968a). Anything remaining is brought to camp to be eaten by all. Campbell (1995: 61) also identifies scavenging as an important part of acquiring meat, perhaps providing up to 20% of that which is taken. However the meat is procured, it is always considered the fundamental part of the Hadza diet Though quantitatively subsisting on vegetables above all, the Hadza consider themselves as hunters and claim to be going hungry if they do not have meat available (Woodburn 1968a).


From what I can tell the author of the Israeli paper are purposefully misrepresenting the Hadza people's diet. They are not technically speaking lying, but in effect they are. Ache people do seem to eat a diet of 80% meat by calories. In truth people eat what they can, and when given a free choice it's mostly carbs with some meat
 

Rick K

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Ok, that's nice.






From what I can tell the author of the Israeli paper are purposefully misrepresenting the Hadza people's diet. They are not technically speaking lying, but in effect they are. Ache people do seem to eat a diet of 80% meat by calories. In truth people eat what they can, and when given a free choice it's mostly carbs with some meat
One must also remember that carbohydrate life forms are far easier to hunt and proffer significantly fewer and less egregious injury to said hunters than a protein based lifeform. :)
 

baccheion

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Fruits were everywhere near the equator. Same with wild game. Or is it true that fruits were different/inedible 2 million years ago?
 

Rick K

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One must also remember that carbohydrate life forms are far easier to hunt and proffer significantly fewer and less egregious injury to said hunters than a protein based lifeform. :)
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gaze

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what's interesting is that civilizations really took off with the advent of starch and dairy around 10000 years ago. and many places didn't have dairy, so the birth of civilizations was from starch which can be a good or bad thing. starch, because of how it's produced and how many people it can feed, led to private property, which led to states, which led to wars, etc. and now we've been stuck in perpetual war. now the question is did starch change peoples personalities through serotonin causing the tendency towards war or was it more so from the advent of private property. I think ray has a certain affection for primiative people, because they're more egalitarian. also he said fruits and animal protein are the main food sources of man, he commonly refers to the masai, and his hatred against starches is well known. I asked him one time if he thinks the british were major colonizers because they ate a lot of brown bread and beer as staples and he said he thinks so, but that does sound like a major generalization
 
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Philomath

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This study had a bit of traction online in the UK media recently. A couple of friends sent it to me as justification for their carnivore/primal style diets.


I would be interested in peoples' retorts from a Peat perspective. The most obvious for me is the calcium:phosphorus ratio. I've heard Ray say previously they would have gotten calcium from bones and green leaves, but I find it hard to imagine they'd get enough to bring them into balance. Also the amino acid profile of a meat-based diet would seem disastrous for ageing/longevity, but maybe they didn't live long enough for that to become a concern? I know the 70% animal leaves room for fruits/honey etc in the other 30%, but overall this would still be a pretty high fat, highish protein, lowish carb diet, and dairy would have been pretty much non-existent.

This is the original paper: Error - Cookies Turned Off
Man cannot live on meat alone.
Exhibit A: Dr. Jordan Peterson
 
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