Stomach infection

messtafarian

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814
Throughout the year I had near constant diarrhea. It was really bad and had all kinds of dramatic anomalies from day to day -- mucus, frothy, pale, liquid, yellow, orange, sandy, and so on, from day to day it would vary. By the time October rolled around and I got a test for micronutrients nothing was really deficient ( in fact I was *high* in both B12 and D because of supplementation) -- b6, folate and vitamin c were borderline but again pretty much ok because of supplementing. The two things that were missing were carnitine and ALA -- this actually makes sense since I had chronic endless diarrhea, plus low iron and vitamin c which is what the liver uses to make carnitine along with lysine and methionone.

So then I had a bad gallbladder and the thing had to come out. They hooked me up to major pain meds plus IV antibiotics -- flagyl and aztreonam -- for four days.

When I got out of the hospital things were a little dicey and my stomach felt swollen and rough BUT the diarrhea was gone. So was the scary shaking for the most part. Not entirely, but enough for me to be really encouraged.

I saw the surgeon and told him my diarrhea went away and he said that the diarrhea had nothing to do with my gallbladder.

So the only thing I can conclude is that I have a bad stomach infection, one that was giving me diarrhea, and giving me muscle weakness and a fine tremor. Makes sense, right? What other conclusion could you draw?

Only I think this infection is not totally gone since the fine tremor and weakness are not gone and seem to be coming back after a couple days of blessed peace. I went to my doctor to ask for more antibiotics and she did a stool culture that came back negative for everything they test. She would not give me more antibiotics, she said, because she needed to know what she was treating -- and apparently if these seven microbes were not present in my gut then there was no infection.

So now I'm stuck. Doc told me NOT to take the flagyl I thought was going to solve everything because of side effects and I'm a little afraid of it anyway -- but she insisted there was no infection when obviously there WAS one or antibiotics would not have solved a big chunk of my symptoms.

I know there's an infection in there somewhere. There has to be.

I think this microbe, whatever it is, is a gram negative anaerobe. Is there some natural thing i can do to kill it?
 

mujuro

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Nov 14, 2014
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Tremor and muscle weakness, plus the diarrhea makes me think that maybe you have an adrenaline or cortisol problem. Maybe the diarrhea is a result of hypermotility.
 

narouz

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mess-
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time.

I kinda doubt the surgeon's reliability about the gallbladder-diarrhea link.
I don't know that much about gallbladder problems,
but I would think the diarrhea connection is very possible.

I wouldn't be so sure about the existence of your microbe.
It could be you're chasing a white whale.

How long has it been since you got out of the hospital?
It doesn't seem to have been very long, if I'm following your timeline.
I would recommend waiting a while,
letting things sort out
and allowing yourself to rest and recover.
Give yourself some time to think and assess.

Hang in there. :)
 

messtafarian

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814
I do definitely have cortisol problems and I think it's coming from an adrenal adenoma. But I'm convinced there's also infection.
 

narouz

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I know from my own experience
that when you've been through the wringer
shadows can kinda rise up and overwhelm--
everything can look dark.
It can be almost impossible not to project bad stuff at every turn.
It's good to avoid making decisions from within such a state, if possible. :)

A surgery like yours, and all those antibiotic IVs, the trauma to the body, etc etc....
Might be good to let yourself recover before you go on the offensive again.
 

goodandevil

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May 27, 2015
Messages
978
messtafarian said:
Throughout the year I had near constant diarrhea. It was really bad and had all kinds of dramatic anomalies from day to day -- mucus, frothy, pale, liquid, yellow, orange, sandy, and so on, from day to day it would vary. By the time October rolled around and I got a test for micronutrients nothing was really deficient ( in fact I was *high* in both B12 and D because of supplementation) -- b6, folate and vitamin c were borderline but again pretty much ok because of supplementing. The two things that were missing were carnitine and ALA -- this actually makes sense since I had chronic endless diarrhea, plus low iron and vitamin c which is what the liver uses to make carnitine along with lysine and methionone.

So then I had a bad gallbladder and the thing had to come out. They hooked me up to major pain meds plus IV antibiotics -- flagyl and aztreonam -- for four days.

When I got out of the hospital things were a little dicey and my stomach felt swollen and rough BUT the diarrhea was gone. So was the scary shaking for the most part. Not entirely, but enough for me to be really encouraged.

I saw the surgeon and told him my diarrhea went away and he said that the diarrhea had nothing to do with my gallbladder.

So the only thing I can conclude is that I have a bad stomach infection, one that was giving me diarrhea, and giving me muscle weakness and a fine tremor. Makes sense, right? What other conclusion could you draw?

Only I think this infection is not totally gone since the fine tremor and weakness are not gone and seem to be coming back after a couple days of blessed peace. I went to my doctor to ask for more antibiotics and she did a stool culture that came back negative for everything they test. She would not give me more antibiotics, she said, because she needed to know what she was treating -- and apparently if these seven microbes were not present in my gut then there was no infection.

So now I'm stuck. Doc told me NOT to take the flagyl I thought was going to solve everything because of side effects and I'm a little afraid of it anyway -- but she insisted there was no infection when obviously there WAS one or antibiotics would not have solved a big chunk of my symptoms.

I know there's an infection in there somewhere. There has to be.

I think this microbe, whatever it is, is a gram negative anaerobe. Is there some natural thing i can do to kill it?

I just recieved some fish tetracycline off ebay for 12 dollars. I dont know ray peat's opinion on antibiotic resistance (and it would be satisfying if someone here does know), but it's total war for me: flowers of sulfur, antibiotics, starch avoidance, even diatomaceous earth, even though ray peat is not fond of it. Patients know best. I also had negative tests, breath test, stool test. Nonendoscopy for mex ive read of the complications. Nonethless, i also have appendectomy and chronic protitis / pelvic pain, ibs, and gerd in my history, and that is a problem. How ridiculous it feels to be "diagnosed" with IBS. Good luck.
 

messtafarian

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goodandevil said:
post 109621
messtafarian said:
I just recieved some fish tetracycline off ebay for 12 dollars. I dont know ray peat's opinion on antibiotic resistance (and it would be satisfying if someone here does know), but it's total war for me: flowers of sulfur, antibiotics, starch avoidance, even diatomaceous earth, even though ray peat is not fond of it. Patients know best. I also had negative tests, breath test, stool test. Nonendoscopy for mex ive read of the complications. Nonethless, i also have appendectomy and chronic protitis / pelvic pain, ibs, and gerd in my history, and that is a problem. How ridiculous it feels to be "diagnosed" with IBS. Good luck.

I completely empathize. I don't believe in IBS at all; there has to be a reason that your gut goes from normal to absolutely hellacious in short order. I am also suspicious of probiotics as a cure -- this idea that "good" microbes will overtake "bad" ones. There are "bad" microbes that can do damage no matter how many "good" ones you have, for example e.coli and salmonella. C Diff is the only one medicine will acccount for along with a handful of others but just because they've identified this one bacteria doesn't mean there aren't a million more.

If you don't have success with the fish drugs, you could try to get a prescription for Rifaxamin for IBS. It's often prescribed for that, often works wonders and it stays in the gut.
 
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goodandevil

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messtafarian said:
post 109626
goodandevil said:
post 109621
messtafarian said:
I just recieved some fish tetracycline off ebay for 12 dollars. I dont know ray peat's opinion on antibiotic resistance (and it would be satisfying if someone here does know), but it's total war for me: flowers of sulfur, antibiotics, starch avoidance, even diatomaceous earth, even though ray peat is not fond of it. Patients know best. I also had negative tests, breath test, stool test. Nonendoscopy for mex ive read of the complications. Nonethless, i also have appendectomy and chronic protitis / pelvic pain, ibs, and gerd in my history, and that is a problem. How ridiculous it feels to be "diagnosed" with IBS. Good luck.

I completely empathize. I don't believe in IBS at all; there has to be a reason that your gut goes from normal to absolutely hellacious in short order. I am also suspicious of probiotics as a cure -- this idea that "good" microbes will overtake "bad" ones. There are "bad" microbes that can do damage no matter how many "good" ones you have, for example e.coli and salmonella. C Diff is the only one medicine will acccount for along with a handful of others but just because they've identified this one bacteria doesn't mean there aren't a million more.

If you don't have success with the fish drugs, you could try to get a prescription for Rifaxamin for IBS. It's often prescribed for that, often works wonders and it stays in the gut.

Thanks, appreciate it. Ill ask my gi if she can prescribe it as a consolation prize.
 
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tara

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Well, you may or may not have had a real pathological infection that the antibiotics sorted.
Your doctor probably doesn't count regular run-of -the-mill normal gut microbes to antibiotic-worthy.
Regular endotoxin/lipopolysaccharides given of by dying gram -ves could be abundant anyway, and maybe you are taking onboard more of this than you can currently handle? Anti-biotics would be expected to knock these back, too, so if this was part of the problem, antibiotics could be expected to help.

Garlic is pretty potent against bacteria and fungii too. Not a recommendation from Peat, because he says garlic can be as hard on the gut as it is on the microbes.
I don't know if it would be a good thing for you or not. But if you tried a bit for a few days, you'd probably get an idea of whether it was making a difference. I wouldn't go the whole shock and awe approach that TBP did, at least not initially, but I reckon even half a clove chopped and added to my carrot salad helps keep my head clearer, so I guess that's because it reduces my endotoxin load. There are probably some other downsides to garlic too, but if it it helps it may be worth it.

Activated charcoal and carrot salad you know about.

I expect there are other remedies, but those are the ones I know of.
 

messtafarian

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I've been thinking about Garlic since its actually the only other one I know about too. I am getting a contrast abdominal ct scan on Tuesday so maybe there is something mechanical going on that they'll find. I've managed to stay away from x-rays so far but this seems warranted.

This is day two of no diarrhea since one year ago. I suppose I should be happy with that and *maybe* what it will lead to is increased normalcy on all fronts over time> I hope so but I hate to leave it to chance.
 

tara

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messtafarian said:
post 109634 This is day two of no diarrhea since one year ago. I suppose I should be happy with that and *maybe* what it will lead to is increased normalcy on all fronts over time> I hope so but I hate to leave it to chance.
Yeah, if you have some noticable improvements already, it could be heat some of the otehr things will gradually start to sort themselves too. Hope so.
 
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tara

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piotr_zarach said:
post 109639 Test your pancreas
How do you test that? Are you thinking ther might be a deficiency in some important digestive enzymes? If so, would supplemetary digestive enzymes be a potential aid?
 
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narouz

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I would cancel the CT scan
and try some of the other options on the table.

Weigh the known danger of the x-rays and even of Flagyl
against some other options you've taken off the table as too risky:
probiotics and nystatin (and flowers of sulphur).

It could be that you are dealing with a fungi/yeast overgrowth
rather than a bacteria problem.
On the scale of riskiness,
I'd say diagnosis by treatment along these lines is definitely lower risk.

tara brought up TBP.
Her gut problems responded instantly and repeatedly to nystatin.
Nystatin is said to stay in the gut--does not spread systemically.
Pretty cheap and can get it without a prescription.

Peat has recommended flowers of sulphur for yeast/fungi.
Someone posted a while back a mg/day dosage recommendation from Peat.

And in my experiments with probiotics over the past half year or so,
consider these intriguing data points:
1. my coated tongue--the norm over the last 2 or 3 years--
has never been cleaner and pinker than when I take certain select probiotic strains and some prebiotic soluble fiber.
2. those same probiotics seem pretty clearly (experiment is too short to say conclusively)
to stop my heart palpitations/skipping/racing.

You have recently been bombed by mega-antibiotics.
The aftermath of that is the classic--albeit disputed--scenario
in which yeast/fungi can overgrow.
My coated tongue first appeared not long after I took antibiotics.
 

narouz

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*Sorry for this digression.
Just wanted to note to Charlie/mods
that I'm experiencing the "getting unsubscribed from threads" thing again.
With this thread
and a couple others, today, yesterday.
New computer.
Windows 7.
Not bitching...just noting in case others experience this... :)
 

tara

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narouz said:
post 109681 I would cancel the CT scan
and try some of the other options on the table.

I think this is worth considering.
 
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messtafarian

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I'm also wondering about my pancreas. But it looked ok from what they could tell when they did the biliary imaging ( MRI) and my pancreatic enzymes aren't too high. They've been ok so far -- they test amylase and lipase. After my surgery lipase was a little lower than it was previously but still normal.

I'm not taking the Flagyl but I want to do the CT. If there is something in there they're going to see it. This is an imaging of my entire abdomen so this includes my pancreas and my stomach, liver, and intestines. If there is something mechanical or some kind of cancer in there, at least I'll know that. Plus I'm done with my deductible for the year so I won't be paying out of pocket for it. It's a Big Gun. I'm really just as worried about the contrast as the xray.
 
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