Stoking The Furnace — Magnesium & Bicarbonate For Raising Temperature & Metabolism

Discussion in 'Magnesium' started by natedawggh, Jul 9, 2015.

  1. natedawggh

    natedawggh Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    649
    Gender:
    Male
    I came across this article online: http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesium/ ... l-cocktail
    Advocating the use of Magnesium Chloride and Sodium Bicarbonate in tandem to restore health. I tried it and in just an hour my fingers, toes, and ears turned bright red and started letting off tons of heat. It was kind of crazy. I tried taking The MC separated from the SB by 20 minutes and also tried taking them together in water where they supposedly have a reaction to Magnesium Bicarbonate. I don't know which works better or if it's any different, but I will continue to experiment with it.

    I think Dr. Sircus is pretty spot on with the science, though not necessarily his theory. There are some little deviations from Ray's work but I don't think the why is as important as the what, and that WHAT is a LOT of HEAT.

    I don't think it's a good idea to take too much of Sodium Bicarbonate, so don't overdo it. Small amounts. In this case more would not be better. This should probably also not be done with kinds of Magnesium other than Chloride. I have no idea what compounds would result.
     
  2. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,251
    Gender:
    Female
    How much of each did you use to get an effect?
     
  3. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,390
    Gender:
    Male
    But what's the rationale behind that combo??
     
  4. RPDiciple

    RPDiciple Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    262
    read the article he published, everything is there.

    Thanx for posting
     
  5. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2013
    Messages:
    7,367
    Looks like he has it all figured out :lol:
     
  6. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,390
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, of course I can read but since I'm not a biochemist nor a MD and this is an RP forum, I would expect a "Peatish explanation" for the combo. Or more like a "Peatish filter" for the linked article from someone knowledgeable.

    Thanx for answering.
     
  7. ghg

    ghg New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    I am new to this forum. I have been a follower of Dr Sircus and high dose magnesium since last Sept.
    A DVM, Dr Russell J Beckett, discovered magnesium bicarbonate (spent 30 yrs on it) after noticing sheep and cattle in Monaro Australia lived 30% to 100% longer than normal. It was eventually traced to magnesium bicarbonate in their drinking water. He has done studies, has patents, and pending patents on it. Het setup a company on OZ "uniquewater.com.au" to sell mag bicarbonate drinking water. It is intended for the bottled water market, so it is not very strong.

    Dr Sircus, teaches high dose magnesium chloride (mag oil) plus some baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to generate SOME (not much in me) magnesium bicarbonate. While this raised my RBC (red blood cell, cellular reserve) magnesium from 4.2 to 5.3 in 7 months, I noticed no energy boost. Some of his patients do 5g to 20g of magnesium as "transdermal" (rubbing it on skin to bypass the gut) per day.. That dose is way above the diarrhea limit if taken orally.

    Taking lots of magnesium chloride, will acidify the body (excess chloride ions). Taking lots of sodium bicarbonate causes water retention and hence raises blood pressure in many people, including me. So magnesium bicarbonate is a very good solution as it avoids excessive chlorides, and excessive sodium.

    The elusive magnesium bicarbonate cannot exist as a powder, only as a very dilute liquid, at something like 0.5% magnesium. Therefore, it does not work for transdermal application, since it is way too dilute.

    IF you don't live in OZ, there is DIY magnesium bicarbonate water called "Waller Water", which is pretty much the same thing as Unique Water (after diluting the "concentrate")

    http://www.afibbers.org/Wallerwater.pdf

    It is made by putting 3 TBSP of Milk of Magnesia (additive free) into 1 Liter of chilled club soda, and reacts to form 1500mg of magnesium and 7500mg of bicarbonate in that liter. The recipe then states to dilute it 1 part "concentrate" to 11 parts water to make mag bicarb drinking water.

    Following, the Dr Sircus teachings, I drink the whole liter (of the concentrate) over the course of the day. This is pretty close to the diarrhea limit though.

    On 4/20/15, I discovered that one may supplement with magnesium acetate powder, about 1 TSP AM and 1 TSP PM, which provides 2.2g of magnesium and 11g of acetate (1 mEq of acetate metabolizes into 1 mEq of bicarbonate in the liver). This provides powder high dose magnesium bicarbonate supplementation.

    IF one already has sufficient cellular magnesium reserves built up (RBC magnesium > 5.3), then supplementing with 20g/day of magnesium acetate (oral or transdermal), usually produces an instant "fountain of youth" effect. Nearly limitless energy and mental clarity. If one is depleted on magnesium reserves, then no energy boost is noted at first, but picks up in 4-6 weeks as magnesium levels build up. The magnesium (once inside of cells) allows the bicarbonate to enter, performing the magic.

    Also, magnesium acetate can be made into a thick liquid and applied to the skin transdermally, or loaded into a "patch" for absorption. The transdermal portion does not contribute to diarrhea.

    For more info (link to current summary sheet in my dropbox)
    http://tinyurl.com/mag-ace

    Also started a forum thread on Life-Extension here:

    http://ask.lef.org/15623/

    my $0.02
    --ghg
     
  8. Nick Ireland

    Nick Ireland Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    85
  9. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2015
    Messages:
    2,746
    Hi Nick,

    I have difficulties with this kind of statement. The phrasing 'there was a xy % increase' is clear. While the phrasing 'significant increase (P < xy)' makes me suspect that the researchers do not know whether the increase was strong or slight or non-existent.

    The p-value does not in itself support reasoning about the probabilities of a hypotheses. Studies only using p-values are worthless.

    The p-value is only a tool for deciding whether to reject the null hypothesis (= the opposite of the hypothesis). If the null hypothesis can't be rejected the data very likely are insufficient (= not worth to being processed).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-value
     
  10. narouz

    narouz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4,429
    The magnesium acetate thing is interesting, ghg.
    But that would not seem to be part of Sircus' views.
    Where did you get onto the acetate form?
     
  11. Brian

    Brian Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    505
    Magnesium deficiency in my experience is 100% tied to thyroid and progesterone deficiency. When progesterone is at a healthy level magnesium is retained extremely well. So logically it makes much more sense to get your body producing more progesterone rather than focusing on tricks to get it to absorb more magnesium. I notice that when my progesterone levels are good any form of magnesium is easily absorbed and retained with effects on increased related enzyme activity being very obvious. (The most obvious one is a ridiculous amount of pre-ejaculate).
     
  12. narouz

    narouz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4,429
    How did you raise your progesterone levels, Brian?
     
  13. Brian

    Brian Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    505
    I would say the main factors were increasing thyroid hormone production through a little iodine supplementation (usually 400mcg or less of Kelp extract pills) combined with adequate vitamin A for pregnenolone synthesis. I also think getting rid of my zinc deficiency played an important role (by eating a pound of beef a day for a few months).
     
  14. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,251
    Gender:
    Female
    As far as I know, this might be a reasonable summary. Excess acid implies deficiency in alkaline buffers/minerals. Excess acid seems to contribute to hyperventilation, which reduces CO2 and oxygen delivery, and therefore promotes fermation of sugars, which Warburg showed was key to cancer growth, and probably other mechanisms. Seems consistent with Peat (and RBTI)?
     
  15. ghg

    ghg New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Quoting the first paragraph on page 33 from the book Water Based Medicine The Waters of Life

    by Dr Mark Sircus.
    "The Holy Grail of Natural Allopathic Medicine​
    Magnesium Bicarbonate​
    For years I have searched for a product that combines the best of magnesium and
    bicarbonate, without the potential side effects of too much chloride and sodium, as is
    possible when using sodium bicarbonate and magnesium chloride. I have written about
    t h e mysterious and hard to come by magnesium bicarbonate as the Ultimate
    Mitochondria Cocktail."

    Dr Sircus is aware of potential side effects of too much chloride and sodium as was I. What all of the various magnesium doctors seemed to have missed is the fact that the acetate ion is metabolized into the bicarbonate ion in mammals. I have seen this stated as far back as 1965 in the medical literature on dialysis.
    So supplementing with magnesium acetate (a powder) is metabolized into the elusive magnesium bicarbonate in the body, without introducing any sodium or chloride ions. I tried this on 4/20/2015 and boy did it work.
    On 4/21/2015, I posted my magnesium acetate discovery on
    http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesium- ... ne-water-2

    . Claudia French acknowledged my reply and said that she forwarded the info to Dr Sircus.

    So Dr Sircus knows about it. However a couple of months is still a pretty short time. He no doubt needs to vet this idea, and research it more before talking anything about it.
    One can make DIY magnesium acetate from Milk of Magnesia and vinegar, or one can make "Waller Water" which is MoM and Seltzer water also. Details for both in http://ask.lef.org/15623/

    Drinking Waller Water is fine.. Some people have a lower magnesium diarrhea limit, and cannot take much oral magnesium in any form. This is where magnesium acetate shines, it can be made into a thick liquid and applied transdermally, bypassing the gut.

    You can buy 1 Kg qty here:
    http://www.bio-world.com/productinfo/4_ ... drate.html

    Also check out:
    http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesium/ ... ndications

    There is a wealth of information on the Afibbers web site on WW, Unique Water, Trials, etc

    http://www.afibbers.net/forum/read.php? ... msg-128559

    To reduce robotic spam, that site requires a password, which is posted in full view for humans on their website. The login is "afibbers" and the password is "2sesame".

    Also, another thread on magnesium on afibbers. This one contains sources of magnesium acetate.
    http://www.afibbers.net/forum/read.php?9,151073

    --ghg
     
  16. Nick Ireland

    Nick Ireland Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    85
    So what are the chloride implications for someone swimming in the sea every day?
     
  17. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2013
    Messages:
    7,367
     
  18. skominac

    skominac Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    228
    Both Calcium and Magnesium are alkaline, but which one enters the cell makes a big difference in cell metabolism. I suspect Ray Peat talks about negative alkalinity in the context of Calcium entering the cell, which lowers cell's energy while stimulating it at the same time, sometimes leading to cell death. Obviously, we want Magnesium in the cell, for ATP, and Calcium outside the cell, to keep PTH low. Sodium and Potassium have similarly differentiated "spacial" roles. I think both Mag and Cal will raise the PH of the cell, but I don't think this is something we have to worry about as long as they are placed properly.

     
  19. haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,967
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    I agree 100%. In my experiments, adding 100mg pregnenolone to an oral dose of 1g magnesium oxide or citrate FULLY prevents loose stools. As many of the forum members know, 1g of oral magnesium in a single setting is quite large and almost always produces diarrhea. Pregnenolone metabolizes almost instantly into progesterone and since it is a lipid it does not need to be taken with any food. For even stronger effect take 100mg pregnenolone with the actual magnesium bicarbonate and watch out for the powerful sedative effect that kicks in within 10min. Both progesterone and magnesium are strong sedatives and since progesterone improves magnesium retention you may even get knocked out for a few hours.
     
  20. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,390
    Gender:
    Male
    Haidut, what are your thoughts about mixing mag. chloride + sodium bicarbonate ?? The OP didn't mention any doses but he said it produces lots of heat so I guess it boosts metabolism and/or uncouple the mithocondria ??? What do you think ?
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Stoking Furnace Magnesium
  1. Daimyo
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    4,057