Steve Jobs died using a Fruitarian diet/Fasting? Georgi Dinkov

Jennifer

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Just to add to the discussion on fruit allergens, Travis said this:

“In this article, Ray Peat frames chitinases as 'allergenic:'

'One of many substances produced by plants in response to injury is chitinase, an enzyme that breaks down chitin, a polysaccharide that is a structural component of fungi and insects. Chitinase, which is produced by bacteria and humans, as well as by plants and other organisms, is involved in developmental processes as well as in the innate immune system. In plants, the enzyme is induced by ethylene and salicylate, in animals by estrogen, light damage, and infections, and can be demonstrated in polyps and cancers.

The two main classes of plant allergens are the stress-induced chitinases, and seed storage proteins, such as gluten. The chitinase allergens are responsible for reactions to latex (which is secreted by rubber trees in reaction to a wound), bananas, avocados, many other fruits and vegetables, and some types of wood and other plant materials. Intensive agricultural methods are increasing the formation of the defensive chemicals, and the industrialized crops are responsible for the great majority of the new allergies that have appeared in the last 30 years.

The presence of the chitinase family of proteins in humans was first discovered in the inflamed asthmatic lung. It was then found at high levels in the uterine endometrium at the time of implantation of the embryo (an inflammation-like situation) and in the uterus during premature labor. Since estrogen treatment is known to increase the incidence of asthma and other inflammations, the appearance of chitinase also in the uterus in estrogen dominated conditions is interesting, especially when the role of estrogen in celiac disease (in effect an allergy to gluten) is considered. Celiac disease is more prevalent among females, and it involves the immunological cross-reaction to an antigen in the estrogen-regulated transglutaminase enzyme and the gluten protein. The (calcium-regulated) transglutaminase enzyme is involved in the cross-linking of proteins in keratinized cells, in fibrotic processes in the liver, and in cancer. (People with celiac disease often suffer from osteoporosis and urinary stone deposition, showing a general problem with calcium regulation.)' —Ray Peat
⁽¹⁾

The chitinase present in the lungs of asthmatics is not the same chitinase found in papaya latex, and there's simply no reason to assume they even have remotely similar immunogenic epitopes. The chitinase found in the asthmatic lung is chitotriosidase: an enzyme induced by TH1 cytokines such as interferon-γ, tumor necrosis factor α, and macrophage granulocyte colony-stimulating factor. Humans do not synthesize chitin, and the only rational reason to assume that we make an enzyme to destroy it is for the express purpose of combating a fungal infection; the fact that it's induced by cytokines, or immune cell messengers, adds further credence to this obvious conclusion. The asthmatic lung also exhales more nitric oxide and also has increased levels of prostaglandin D₂, two more foregone conclusions–consequences of TH1 cytokines. I think a better viewpoint is the see these events as remedial: Nitric oxide is necessary for macrophages to destroy fungi and bacteria—exactly why iNOS is induced—and chitotriosidase will help break down the chitinous hyphae and fungal wall. Far from being an allergen, injections of chitotriosidase have actually been shown to protect rats from an otherwise fatal injection of Candida albicans. [Citations available upon request.]”

 
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I would be very wary of taking someone's word that (a) they only eat fruit and got jacked, and (b) they are not using any other chemical assistance.

I am not opposed to using n=1 anecdotes as evidence, but reality is the incentive is extremely strong to not be 100% forthcoming when your body composition is your calling card. And that goes double for women.
Oh well. I don't want to get into the deep complexity and the reasons what would be the motivation for him to lie in those circumstances but if it means something to you, he did say that he had to eat astronomical amount of calories to achieve the state he's in. I think he said in some occasions he ate 9k calories a day while also waking up during the night to eat. But I think he needs much less to maintain the weight.
Have you found a bottled orange juice that is made from ripe oranges? I have yet to find one here in the States. Even the brands I’ve seen being praised here like Whole Foods 365, Uncle Matt’s, Natalie’s, Evolution and Lakewood are all acidic and bitter. I was able to get a sugary sweet and non-acidic OJ fresh pressed from the grocery store about 5 years back and ever since then, the OJ looks like lemonade, and I rarely find ripe oranges to fresh press my own.
For the past 3 months I've been buying extremely sweet greek and some spanish valencia oranges here in Serbia. But I know this is not going to last forever. I think the oranges are the sourest in the summer where I buy them. So I still have a few months I hope until I stop drinking them. I drink 1l of freshly squeezed OJ per day.
Just to add to the discussion on fruit allergens, Travis said this:

“In this article, Ray Peat frames chitinases as 'allergenic:'

'One of many substances produced by plants in response to injury is chitinase, an enzyme that breaks down chitin, a polysaccharide that is a structural component of fungi and insects. Chitinase, which is produced by bacteria and humans, as well as by plants and other organisms, is involved in developmental processes as well as in the innate immune system. In plants, the enzyme is induced by ethylene and salicylate, in animals by estrogen, light damage, and infections, and can be demonstrated in polyps and cancers.

The two main classes of plant allergens are the stress-induced chitinases, and seed storage proteins, such as gluten. The chitinase allergens are responsible for reactions to latex (which is secreted by rubber trees in reaction to a wound), bananas, avocados, many other fruits and vegetables, and some types of wood and other plant materials. Intensive agricultural methods are increasing the formation of the defensive chemicals, and the industrialized crops are responsible for the great majority of the new allergies that have appeared in the last 30 years.

The presence of the chitinase family of proteins in humans was first discovered in the inflamed asthmatic lung. It was then found at high levels in the uterine endometrium at the time of implantation of the embryo (an inflammation-like situation) and in the uterus during premature labor. Since estrogen treatment is known to increase the incidence of asthma and other inflammations, the appearance of chitinase also in the uterus in estrogen dominated conditions is interesting, especially when the role of estrogen in celiac disease (in effect an allergy to gluten) is considered. Celiac disease is more prevalent among females, and it involves the immunological cross-reaction to an antigen in the estrogen-regulated transglutaminase enzyme and the gluten protein. The (calcium-regulated) transglutaminase enzyme is involved in the cross-linking of proteins in keratinized cells, in fibrotic processes in the liver, and in cancer. (People with celiac disease often suffer from osteoporosis and urinary stone deposition, showing a general problem with calcium regulation.)' —Ray Peat
⁽¹⁾
Super interesting BUT...
The chitinase present in the lungs of asthmatics is not the same chitinase found in papaya latex, and there's simply no reason to assume they even have remotely similar immunogenic epitopes. The chitinase found in the asthmatic lung is chitotriosidase: an enzyme induced by TH1 cytokines such as interferon-γ, tumor necrosis factor α, and macrophage granulocyte colony-stimulating factor. Humans do not synthesize chitin, and the only rational reason to assume that we make an enzyme to destroy it is for the express purpose of combating a fungal infection; the fact that it's induced by cytokines, or immune cell messengers, adds further credence to this obvious conclusion. The asthmatic lung also exhales more nitric oxide and also has increased levels of prostaglandin D₂, two more foregone conclusions–consequences of TH1 cytokines. I think a better viewpoint is the see these events as remedial: Nitric oxide is necessary for macrophages to destroy fungi and bacteria—exactly why iNOS is induced—and chitotriosidase will help break down the chitinous hyphae and fungal wall. Far from being an allergen, injections of chitotriosidase have actually been shown to protect rats from an otherwise fatal injection of Candida albicans. [Citations available upon request.]”
...I like Travis perspective much more. It makes so much more sense.
 

ursidae

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christ, this thread is amazing

"steve jobs might have died due to following a frutarian diet (?)"

-he didn't actually die
-he died of AIDS
-he was a hired actor
-AIDS isn't real
-he was killed
-he/she/it was a body clone
 
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Sep 28, 2020
Messages
555
christ, this thread is amazing

"steve jobs might have died due to following a frutarian diet (?)"

-he didn't actually die
-he died of AIDS
-he was a hired actor
-AIDS isn't real
-he was killed
-he/she/it was a body clone
Jennifer and I briefly hijacked this thread by focusing on more health-related stuff but nevertheless you indeed have to learn how to navigate information on here xd
 

Jennifer

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USA
For the past 3 months I've been buying extremely sweet greek and some spanish valencia oranges here in Serbia. But I know this is not going to last forever. I think the oranges are the sourest in the summer where I buy them. So I still have a few months I hope until I stop drinking them. I drink 1l of freshly squeezed OJ per day.

Nice! I used to get heirloom oranges that were like candy, but they’ve been sour the past few years, too. So sad.

christ, this thread is amazing

"steve jobs might have died due to following a frutarian diet (?)"

-he didn't actually die
-he died of AIDS
-he was a hired actor
-AIDS isn't real
-he was killed
-he/she/it was a body clone

😂 Just another day on the Ray Peat Forum.
 

philalethes

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Have you found a bottled orange juice that is made from ripe oranges? I have yet to find one here in the States. Even the brands I’ve seen being praised here like Whole Foods 365, Uncle Matt’s, Natalie’s, Evolution and Lakewood are all acidic and bitter.

I don't live in the US, but the vast majority of orange juices I buy here (northern Europe) are quite sweet. There is typically some variable acidity (even if using the ripest fruits, that will still generally include fruits that aren't quite mature yet), but rarely so much that the juice becomes unpalatable, though I have had it happen sometimes; at that point I discard it, because it's probably going to be noticeably detrimental to my health even if I mask the acidity with sugar. Bitterness in orange juice is something I've hardly ever experienced, perhaps a handful of times at most.

It really sounds strange to me for bottled orange juices to be consistently significantly acidic and even bitter, unless all the oranges used in the process are harvested far earlier or zero discrimination is being made between varying levels of ripeness (which would lead to more acidic juices and more spoilage of fresh oranges, double whammy).
 

Jennifer

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I don't live in the US, but the vast majority of orange juices I buy here (northern Europe) are quite sweet. There is typically some variable acidity (even if using the ripest fruits, that will still generally include fruits that aren't quite mature yet), but rarely so much that the juice becomes unpalatable, though I have had it happen sometimes; at that point I discard it, because it's probably going to be noticeably detrimental to my health even if I mask the acidity with sugar. Bitterness in orange juice is something I've hardly ever experienced, perhaps a handful of times at most.

It really sounds strange to me for bottled orange juices to be consistently significantly acidic and even bitter, unless all the oranges used in the process are harvested far earlier or zero discrimination is being made between varying levels of ripeness (which would lead to more acidic juices and more spoilage of fresh oranges, double whammy).

Interesting. Thank you. :) I’ll see if I can find a bottled European brand then. About the bitterness, I came across this:

Why Is Orange Juice Bitter ? Can You Fix It ?​


Freshly squeezed orange juice can turn bitter in about 30 minutes, if made from navel oranges, which are the most common oranges sold in grocery shops. These contain higher amounts of limonin, a bitter compound common in citrus, and it activates after exposure to oxygen. Pasteurized orange juice (in a carton) tastes a bit bitter due to being heated, which destroys a lot of the flavor. The juice then has aroma added back in.

Most of the time you’ll find limonin in seeds, pith, and skins. And navel oranges have the highest amount of limonin out of all commercial oranges. If your orange juice is made at home, you still have time to make and drink your orange juice in 30 minutes.

If it’s commercially made orange juice, it’s gone through a long process of squeezing, filtering, heating, dehydrating, rehydrating, adding flavor, and so on. The bitterness resulting from this, added to the bitterness from limonin does not make a great tasting orange juice, without the aid of a lot of sugar.

 
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